LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
Fox News just reporting that a CNN crew were invited to the compound to view results, which led to the cnx mission
And here's me thinking the Tornado crew were alerted by some high-flying Predator, spy satellite or SF team.
So the planners were watching CNN but not the BBC, otherwise they would have known there were civilian human shield camping out within 50 metres of the suspected command bunker which was struck. Or were they confident they could take the shot?
Ministry of Defence have just revealed that RAF Typhoons have completed their first combat mission over Libya. Well done all!
Op Ellamy webpage.
RAF - Libya - Op ELLAMY
TJ
Op Ellamy webpage.
RAF - Libya - Op ELLAMY
TJ
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Easy Street
I really hope that current NATO equipment range is not a choise between B2 and Enola Gay. Because if bombing of Tripoli can only be done safely by B2, what we all gonna do in case of a war with capable and equipped enemy like country X or country Y? There are only 20-something B2s and they need a ground time of a week after each flight - at least that's what jornos telling us.
If I would be US tax payer I would be seriously worried about it from the other perspective too.
When you buy a new Prius it is usually delivered by sea, while no doubt C17 can pick it up from the factory and do an airdrop at your backyard...
And by the way, as correctly noted by another poster, using B2 makes a lot of mixed feelings in countries who were initially supportive for the action.
Of course, you chaps would have been at the front of the queue to conduct SEAD missions, using direct line-of-sight weapons from a non-stealth platform, just to satisfy a small bunch of hand-wringers at home, I suppose?
If I would be US tax payer I would be seriously worried about it from the other perspective too.
When you buy a new Prius it is usually delivered by sea, while no doubt C17 can pick it up from the factory and do an airdrop at your backyard...
And by the way, as correctly noted by another poster, using B2 makes a lot of mixed feelings in countries who were initially supportive for the action.
Easy Street wrote
Sorry, I didn't see your earlier post of the Typhoon announcement. I can't see Libya launching any fixed wing, but they always have the option of helicopters. That is if they can convince aircrew to get them airborne!
TJ
Shame there's nothing left to shoot though...
TJ
CargoOne, draken55,
How ridiculous would we have looked if we had tried to take out the IADS using "legacy" methods in order to be "sporting", and lost aircraft or missed the targets due to evasive action? War is not supposed to be fair and we have a duty to minimise the risk to our own forces. Even old SAMs such as SA-2 and SA-6 have a significant capability - it's very easy for you to sit at your keyboard and pontificate, a very different thing to commit your aircraft inside the no-escape zone around each site to look for civilians and drop a bomb...
I think it's pretty clear that the B-2, TLAM and Storm Shadow phase is drawing to a close, so it's a dead argument, anyway. Roll on the CAPs, reconnaissance, overwatch, response options and CAS.
Just a thought - what if CAS in support of civilians became known doctrinally as CivCAS?!? Could make for some confusing press statements. Or if there was no JTAC there, it would be CivECAS. (I'll get my coat).
How ridiculous would we have looked if we had tried to take out the IADS using "legacy" methods in order to be "sporting", and lost aircraft or missed the targets due to evasive action? War is not supposed to be fair and we have a duty to minimise the risk to our own forces. Even old SAMs such as SA-2 and SA-6 have a significant capability - it's very easy for you to sit at your keyboard and pontificate, a very different thing to commit your aircraft inside the no-escape zone around each site to look for civilians and drop a bomb...
I think it's pretty clear that the B-2, TLAM and Storm Shadow phase is drawing to a close, so it's a dead argument, anyway. Roll on the CAPs, reconnaissance, overwatch, response options and CAS.
Just a thought - what if CAS in support of civilians became known doctrinally as CivCAS?!? Could make for some confusing press statements. Or if there was no JTAC there, it would be CivECAS. (I'll get my coat).
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I think it's pretty clear that the B-2, TLAM and Storm Shadow phase is drawing to a close.
Which was the point I made in my posts when stating that the continued use of stand off weapons would just be counter productive!
The major risk to UN Air Power so far was on Saturday afternoon in stopping the Colonel's armoured columns near Bengazi. We can all speculate about SEAD and who provided it or if the Rebels were able to confirm they had control of AD in the immediate area. Facts are the advance was stopped and the population protected in line with 1973. We then used the works that night to attack his AD and Command and Control to allow the NFZ to commence.
It's now a case of what happens next and in this respect we need to maintain the broad political support that allowed 1973 to be passed in the first place.
Which was the point I made in my posts when stating that the continued use of stand off weapons would just be counter productive!
The major risk to UN Air Power so far was on Saturday afternoon in stopping the Colonel's armoured columns near Bengazi. We can all speculate about SEAD and who provided it or if the Rebels were able to confirm they had control of AD in the immediate area. Facts are the advance was stopped and the population protected in line with 1973. We then used the works that night to attack his AD and Command and Control to allow the NFZ to commence.
It's now a case of what happens next and in this respect we need to maintain the broad political support that allowed 1973 to be passed in the first place.
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I think the job is largely done as far as the resolution provides. Now an AWACS and cap can cover.
Normally I'm rather hawkish, but I don't like the trend with Arab League backstabbing, press hostility, leadership and command mistakes (announcing no boots), and doubts about Libyan opposition loyalties.
It's time to end this and let Libyans and Arabs work it out.
Normally I'm rather hawkish, but I don't like the trend with Arab League backstabbing, press hostility, leadership and command mistakes (announcing no boots), and doubts about Libyan opposition loyalties.
It's time to end this and let Libyans and Arabs work it out.
the rebels would not be supported, so CAS is definitely off your list
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CargoOne,
A question from civilian side of aviation: why coalition needed to use B2s from its US homebase? Does it have any unique capabilities necessary for the mission in question or it is rather a demonstration of expensive technologies?
A question from civilian side of aviation: why coalition needed to use B2s from its US homebase? Does it have any unique capabilities necessary for the mission in question or it is rather a demonstration of expensive technologies?
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It's also a good training exercise for the units involved. As will be building and running the ATO a good training experience for the French and Brits after the handoff.
It's one thing to know you could run a single sortie from Kansas City to Tripoli and back and another thing to actually do it.
It's one thing to know you could run a single sortie from Kansas City to Tripoli and back and another thing to actually do it.
Last edited by BandAide; 22nd Mar 2011 at 01:24.
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Reinhardt,
Strange how all UK & US Missile strikes on airfields are reported as "UK & US" whereas French Rafale and Mirage fighters attacks blowing up tanks miles around Benghazi while helping to control the Libyan airspace, are reported as "Allied / coalition aircraft" but not "French"....
But quite soon - tomorrow - there will be a real aircraft carrier in the Gulf of Syrte, and then many will understand the real value of those ships ...
Strange how all UK & US Missile strikes on airfields are reported as "UK & US" whereas French Rafale and Mirage fighters attacks blowing up tanks miles around Benghazi while helping to control the Libyan airspace, are reported as "Allied / coalition aircraft" but not "French"....
But quite soon - tomorrow - there will be a real aircraft carrier in the Gulf of Syrte, and then many will understand the real value of those ships ...
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Apologies if someone else has mentioned this but.................... isn't it a touch unfortunate that the UN resolution that authorised this action carries the number 1973?
Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Yom Kippur War - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I immediately thought of the other connection 'Plant a tree in '73'
Plant A Tree In '73 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Plant A Tree In '73 - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Ah yes, I saw the significance of the numbering of UNSCR 1973, but didn't bother to comment, 'cos the yoof of today have no interest in the lessons from history....
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When and IF.....
A particular tabloid was, a couple of days ago, saying that it would all be "over in 48hrs." We knew of course that it wouldn't. But with Gen. Richards being "slapped down" by No. 10 in regard to taking out Gadaffi there is need to wonder what will happen next. Could it possibly the case that when we have done the job we just stop and let the rebels have the country. Its absurd isn't it. But it would also mean that Gadaffi cannot be allowed to stay or run the country so.............what next? President Obama has, apparently 'scaled down' the operations so what then? Is it turning to can of worms?
Who gets Gadaffi off his throne? I'd take a bet that Gen Richards has seen the distinct possibility that we will have to have him gone - preferably dead. We cannot leave it now, the Colonel's time in Libya has to be ended one way or another. There is no solution in sight so I guess its nine skittles for the time being but with more and more strikes. ONE of them has to finish his nibs there and then.
A politician's life is not always easy but I wouldn't want to be one now.
Having said all that it does my old heart good to see our aircraft showing that maybe the FOX will have to do what Gen.Dannett says - "reverse" the mil cuts. We are going to be doing this kind of action again and again!
Who gets Gadaffi off his throne? I'd take a bet that Gen Richards has seen the distinct possibility that we will have to have him gone - preferably dead. We cannot leave it now, the Colonel's time in Libya has to be ended one way or another. There is no solution in sight so I guess its nine skittles for the time being but with more and more strikes. ONE of them has to finish his nibs there and then.
A politician's life is not always easy but I wouldn't want to be one now.
Having said all that it does my old heart good to see our aircraft showing that maybe the FOX will have to do what Gen.Dannett says - "reverse" the mil cuts. We are going to be doing this kind of action again and again!
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Torygraph this morning describing the Typhoon.
"It is so fast that it can comfortably escape from any enemy missile fired at it".
"Just one aircraft can carry the same weapons load as two of the old Jaguar ground attack bombers and one Tornado intercepter".
Wow!
"It is so fast that it can comfortably escape from any enemy missile fired at it".
"Just one aircraft can carry the same weapons load as two of the old Jaguar ground attack bombers and one Tornado intercepter".
Wow!
BBC Today Program
Any one hear the interview on the Today Program this morning just before 7 about the cost of OP ELLAMY? Almost as a throw away comment at the end of the interview it alleged that there was a discussion at MoD about the costs of both operating from UK and Italy being prohibitive. As a result it was alleged that some in MoD looked very hard at the feasibility of dragging the GR9s out of their hangers at Cott and asking the RN if the one remaining flat top could be put to sea? The justification being that this option would come at a much reduced cost to HM Treasury than host nation support or staging from UK. (Italy wavering on offering bases dependent on NATO taking control may also have been a factor???) However, the adverse reaction of Downing Street to such a suggestion was seen as a show stopper, as it made the assumptions of SDSR worthless.
This story was backed up by some spotters claiming to have seen GR9s on the pan being engine tested (routine maintanace - coincidence??) Some one may have put 1+1=5 ?
However, on a serious note, before spending round 11/12, 12/13 is announced, how much head scratching and conversations in quiet corners are going on between the service chiefs and ministers about has SDSR perhaps gone too far...........
This story was backed up by some spotters claiming to have seen GR9s on the pan being engine tested (routine maintanace - coincidence??) Some one may have put 1+1=5 ?
However, on a serious note, before spending round 11/12, 12/13 is announced, how much head scratching and conversations in quiet corners are going on between the service chiefs and ministers about has SDSR perhaps gone too far...........