LIBYA (Merged) Use this thread ONLY
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You lost me there, in what way?
50,000+ US troops are stationed in Europe. Why? Are they tourists?
Think about it. Europe has not pulled its way in 100 years. The US bankrolled the Allies in WW1 and WW2 and post war. The French in Vietnam/Algeria for example relied heavily on US supplied equipment and on occasions intervention.
How about some personal responsibility and accountability EU...and others.
Think about it. Europe has not pulled its way in 100 years. The US bankrolled the Allies in WW1 and WW2 and post war. The French in Vietnam/Algeria for example relied heavily on US supplied equipment and on occasions intervention.
How about some personal responsibility and accountability EU...and others.
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US and allies looking for a place to exile Qadaffi. Also, other countries trying to position their proxies for post-Qadaffi.
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/wo...nted=1&_r=1&hp
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/04/17/wo...nted=1&_r=1&hp
.... WASHINGTON — The Obama administration has begun seeking a country, most likely in Africa, that might be willing to provide shelter to Col. Muammar el-Qaddafi if he were forced out of Libya, even as a new wave of intelligence reports suggest that no rebel leader has emerged as a credible successor to the Libyan dictator.
.... One possibility, according to three administration officials, is to find a country that is not a signatory to the treaty that requires countries to turn over anyone under indictment for trial by the court, perhaps giving Colonel Qaddafi an incentive to abandon his stronghold in Tripoli.
The move by the United States to find a haven for Colonel Qaddafi may help explain how the White House is trying to enforce President Obama’s declaration that the Libyan leader must leave the country but without violating Mr. Obama’s refusal to put troops on the ground.
.... NATO commanders say they are still struggling to come up with at least eight more warplanes to ensure the alliance can sustain a longer-term operation and relieve strain on pilots now flying repeated combat missions.
.... accomplished three major objectives: saving the de facto rebel capital of Benghazi from becoming the site of a civilian atrocity, setting up an international command to protect civilians and clear the skies of Libyan aircraft, and providing modest amounts of humanitarian assistance.
.... American officials concede that the rebel leaders have not settled on who might succeed Colonel Qaddafi if he is ousted, and some fear that tribal warfare could break out if there is no consensus figure who could bind the country together.
.... One possibility, according to three administration officials, is to find a country that is not a signatory to the treaty that requires countries to turn over anyone under indictment for trial by the court, perhaps giving Colonel Qaddafi an incentive to abandon his stronghold in Tripoli.
The move by the United States to find a haven for Colonel Qaddafi may help explain how the White House is trying to enforce President Obama’s declaration that the Libyan leader must leave the country but without violating Mr. Obama’s refusal to put troops on the ground.
.... NATO commanders say they are still struggling to come up with at least eight more warplanes to ensure the alliance can sustain a longer-term operation and relieve strain on pilots now flying repeated combat missions.
.... accomplished three major objectives: saving the de facto rebel capital of Benghazi from becoming the site of a civilian atrocity, setting up an international command to protect civilians and clear the skies of Libyan aircraft, and providing modest amounts of humanitarian assistance.
.... American officials concede that the rebel leaders have not settled on who might succeed Colonel Qaddafi if he is ousted, and some fear that tribal warfare could break out if there is no consensus figure who could bind the country together.
crab@SAAvn,
Well ask yourself why were Libyan airfields struck destroying aircraft and hardened aircraft shelters? Yes the rules of engagement allow those tanks to be targeted. The aim is to degrade the Libyan Armed Forces so that they can't use their superior forces to overwhelm the cities that have broken away. Striking logistic bases and ammunition bunkers take away the Libyan forces capability to repair and re-supply.
What is the alternative? It is too late if the tanks were moved into the built up areas of Misrata. The rules of engagement will severely restrict weapons drops in such situations due to the risk to civilians within the city. Even if the tanks were unserviceable the strike takes away a source of spares. Why give them any advantage?
TJ
Well ask yourself why were Libyan airfields struck destroying aircraft and hardened aircraft shelters? Yes the rules of engagement allow those tanks to be targeted. The aim is to degrade the Libyan Armed Forces so that they can't use their superior forces to overwhelm the cities that have broken away. Striking logistic bases and ammunition bunkers take away the Libyan forces capability to repair and re-supply.
What is the alternative? It is too late if the tanks were moved into the built up areas of Misrata. The rules of engagement will severely restrict weapons drops in such situations due to the risk to civilians within the city. Even if the tanks were unserviceable the strike takes away a source of spares. Why give them any advantage?
TJ
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Libya is well in range of hundreds of Tornado's stationed in UK, Germany and Italy, all with a variety of usefull weapons and forward bases to wipe out Khadaffi forces. Why use Typhoon interceptors?
It's all political hesitations. Maybe they get mixed information from the Arab world?
It's all political hesitations. Maybe they get mixed information from the Arab world?
Keesje wrote,
Germany will not commit their Tornado or any of their combat aircraft to the conflict. Italian aircraft are in the air defence and support role. Their Tornado variants are used in Libya for recon and suppression of air defences. The Italian government won't permit them to be used in the bombing role.
Berlusconi says Italy won't bomb Libya - UPI.com
During 2008 RAF Typhoons were cleared for a ground attack role. It is limited by current weapons clearance, but even though an austere capability why not use them?
[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Equipment and Logistics | Typhoons declared ready for ground attack role
TJ
Libya is well in range of hundreds of Tornado's stationed in UK, Germany and Italy, all with a variety of usefull weapons and forward bases to wipe out Khadaffi forces. Why use Typhoon interceptors?
Berlusconi says Italy won't bomb Libya - UPI.com
During 2008 RAF Typhoons were cleared for a ground attack role. It is limited by current weapons clearance, but even though an austere capability why not use them?
[ARCHIVED CONTENT] Ministry of Defence | Defence News | Equipment and Logistics | Typhoons declared ready for ground attack role
TJ
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike | British Forces News
The Royal Air Force pilot who carried out the first operational Typhoon aircraft strike on a ground target has been describing the mission.
The first strike was made against a Libyan regime main battle tank during a mission on Tuesday, 12 April.
The pilot said: “I left Gioia Del Colle in a mixed pair with a Tornado GR4.
“We’d been tasked to Misratah in the West of Libya, which is pretty much a city under siege, with significant numbers of attacks against the civilian population from pro-regime forces. We were looking along one of the main supply routes in Misratah when we came across a compound with around 10 – 15 main battle tanks in.
“We reported our findings to the command and control assets we work with and shortly thereafter, were cleared to engage.
“At that point, we generated coordinates for the targets and dropped weapons. Each time we assessed the likely weapon effect and whether there would be any collateral damage implications.
“It was a precision attack from a significant altitude.
“To be honest, I was a little bit nervous but you just revert to the training you’ve done before. I’ve dropped a significant number of weapons from the Typhoon in training. It felt no different from that, only this time I was even more relieved to see the bomb go exactly where it should have done, in the Litening III image displayed in my cockpit.”
“We have proven that the jet can carry weapons a long distance, drop them accurately, land and get pumped full of fuel, reloaded with weapons and go and do it again, day in day out. That makes this capability enduring, and while it may seem like a milestone to some, it’s just a hurdle that had to be overcome at some point. It has been done, and we will drop more over the life of the aircraft. I think people are just pleased we’ve got the first one out of the way.”
It would appear that the Typhoon was using the data link (Link-16) in order to see the images from the Tornado's Litening pod?
TJ
Typhoon pilot describes first air to ground strike | British Forces News
The Royal Air Force pilot who carried out the first operational Typhoon aircraft strike on a ground target has been describing the mission.
The first strike was made against a Libyan regime main battle tank during a mission on Tuesday, 12 April.
The pilot said: “I left Gioia Del Colle in a mixed pair with a Tornado GR4.
“We’d been tasked to Misratah in the West of Libya, which is pretty much a city under siege, with significant numbers of attacks against the civilian population from pro-regime forces. We were looking along one of the main supply routes in Misratah when we came across a compound with around 10 – 15 main battle tanks in.
“We reported our findings to the command and control assets we work with and shortly thereafter, were cleared to engage.
“At that point, we generated coordinates for the targets and dropped weapons. Each time we assessed the likely weapon effect and whether there would be any collateral damage implications.
“It was a precision attack from a significant altitude.
“To be honest, I was a little bit nervous but you just revert to the training you’ve done before. I’ve dropped a significant number of weapons from the Typhoon in training. It felt no different from that, only this time I was even more relieved to see the bomb go exactly where it should have done, in the Litening III image displayed in my cockpit.”
“We have proven that the jet can carry weapons a long distance, drop them accurately, land and get pumped full of fuel, reloaded with weapons and go and do it again, day in day out. That makes this capability enduring, and while it may seem like a milestone to some, it’s just a hurdle that had to be overcome at some point. It has been done, and we will drop more over the life of the aircraft. I think people are just pleased we’ve got the first one out of the way.”
It would appear that the Typhoon was using the data link (Link-16) in order to see the images from the Tornado's Litening pod?
TJ
Last edited by TEEEJ; 17th Apr 2011 at 20:23.
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Anyone seen the Sunday times today? Great opsec on where everyone is living.
Since the RAF deployed, it's been no secret that aircrew were staying in Hotel accomodation in Sicily. How can you breach security when none existed in the first place?
I wonder what will happen when the tourist season starts! Perhaps Ian Allan will start organising some trips for spotters.
Since the RAF deployed, it's been no secret that aircrew were staying in Hotel accomodation in Sicily. How can you breach security when none existed in the first place?
I wonder what will happen when the tourist season starts! Perhaps Ian Allan will start organising some trips for spotters.
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Since the RAF deployed, it's been no secret that aircrew were staying in Hotel accomodation in Sicily.
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Best send out the Regiment to protect the aircrew then!
Off thread but note from the Press that Italy has given temporary residency to large numbers of Tunisian refugees who crossed the Med. That allowed them free travel within the EU especially within the Schengen Passport Free countries. As a result France has been stopping trains at it's border with Italy!
The main reason why Italy is against bombing the Colonel/Regime change is concern at the thought of refugees and that meantime he might just do a Castro and dump all his malcontents on them!
Off thread but note from the Press that Italy has given temporary residency to large numbers of Tunisian refugees who crossed the Med. That allowed them free travel within the EU especially within the Schengen Passport Free countries. As a result France has been stopping trains at it's border with Italy!
The main reason why Italy is against bombing the Colonel/Regime change is concern at the thought of refugees and that meantime he might just do a Castro and dump all his malcontents on them!
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Quote:
Libya is well in range of hundreds of Tornado's stationed in UK, Germany and Italy, all with a variety of usefull weapons and forward bases to wipe out Khadaffi forces. Why use Typhoon interceptors?
Libya is well in range of hundreds of Tornado's stationed in UK, Germany and Italy, all with a variety of usefull weapons and forward bases to wipe out Khadaffi forces. Why use Typhoon interceptors?
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The hotel has been public domain for a while. Sharkey Ward 'published' it on his blog last week. Ironically, it was possibly the only factually correct bit of information on there. In fact, thinking about it, it's probably the wrong hotel.
My favourite post of his was an FOI he sent to the MoD requesting information on an apparent proposal to absorb the Royal Marines, Paras and Gurkhas into the RAF. I sometimes wonder who winds who up the most...
My favourite post of his was an FOI he sent to the MoD requesting information on an apparent proposal to absorb the Royal Marines, Paras and Gurkhas into the RAF. I sometimes wonder who winds who up the most...
Actually, there was such a proposal - but Sharkey Ward got the wrong end of the stick entirely...
Ward thought this a sign of the RAF's malign intent, when in fact the proposal came from Professor Eric Grove (made with his tongue planted firmly in cheek). This was part of Prof Grove's rejoinder to the idea that the RAF should be broken up and divided between the Army and RN.
Grove is not serious about this - his point is to suggest that the UK's security needs are very dependent upon air and maritime power, and less so on land power - so his case is very much a 'if you are doing to do something damned stupid, dividing the army between the RN and the RAF, while equally damned stupid, at least pays heed to the primary security and defence needs of the UK'. He put the proposal forward in a paper, an now contained in a book on SDSR, for RUSI.
What happened next, AIUI, is that a certain Air Marshal (Harrier mate, name rhymes with 'talker') learned of this suggestion, thought it amusing, and thatit might be good fun to wind up some Army types by putting Eric Grove's cunning wheeze forward as banter. Which, again AIUI, he did.
This, of course, ended up with someone in green thinking that this was the sign of an RAF plot to disband the army, and the news got to Cdr Ward. Credulous as ever when it came to something which could discredit the RAF, he believed it absolutely and put in the FOI request...
(It should be noted, of course, that although Prof Grove is critical of several elements of the light blue approach to things, he is an absolute advocate of the existence of the RAF as a separate service. He is also, of course, one of the nation's foremost maritime historians and an enormous fan of the RN, so hardly an ignorant dupe or a light blue stooge)
Ward thought this a sign of the RAF's malign intent, when in fact the proposal came from Professor Eric Grove (made with his tongue planted firmly in cheek). This was part of Prof Grove's rejoinder to the idea that the RAF should be broken up and divided between the Army and RN.
Grove is not serious about this - his point is to suggest that the UK's security needs are very dependent upon air and maritime power, and less so on land power - so his case is very much a 'if you are doing to do something damned stupid, dividing the army between the RN and the RAF, while equally damned stupid, at least pays heed to the primary security and defence needs of the UK'. He put the proposal forward in a paper, an now contained in a book on SDSR, for RUSI.
What happened next, AIUI, is that a certain Air Marshal (Harrier mate, name rhymes with 'talker') learned of this suggestion, thought it amusing, and thatit might be good fun to wind up some Army types by putting Eric Grove's cunning wheeze forward as banter. Which, again AIUI, he did.
This, of course, ended up with someone in green thinking that this was the sign of an RAF plot to disband the army, and the news got to Cdr Ward. Credulous as ever when it came to something which could discredit the RAF, he believed it absolutely and put in the FOI request...
(It should be noted, of course, that although Prof Grove is critical of several elements of the light blue approach to things, he is an absolute advocate of the existence of the RAF as a separate service. He is also, of course, one of the nation's foremost maritime historians and an enormous fan of the RN, so hardly an ignorant dupe or a light blue stooge)
To clarify the debate of Typhoon and designation pod.
A RAF Typhoon departs from Gioia del Colle, equipped with Enhanced Paveway II bombs, air to air missiles and a Litening pod in support of the UN sanctioned No Fly Zone over Libya. 16 April 2011 Picture: Sergeant Pete Mobbs RAF, Crown Copyright/MOD 2011
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...llamy1_big.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...llamy2_big.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...llamy3_big.jpg
From page 2 of Typhoon and Tornado gallery.
RAF - Typhoon and Tornado
TJ
A RAF Typhoon departs from Gioia del Colle, equipped with Enhanced Paveway II bombs, air to air missiles and a Litening pod in support of the UN sanctioned No Fly Zone over Libya. 16 April 2011 Picture: Sergeant Pete Mobbs RAF, Crown Copyright/MOD 2011
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...llamy1_big.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...llamy2_big.jpg
http://www.raf.mod.uk/rafcms/mediafi...llamy3_big.jpg
From page 2 of Typhoon and Tornado gallery.
RAF - Typhoon and Tornado
TJ
One more Litening pod that the Tornado crews training for deployment to Afghanistan and Libya cannot use! Good job the Tornado sim can replicate the pod now I suppose.
