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Somali Pirates

Old 13th Feb 2011, 09:30
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Somali Pirates

I see from today's Torygraph that Royal Dutch Shell want the Royal Navy to launch military action against new pirate motherships off Somalia. In the last few days a Greek supertanker carrying Kuwati oil to the USA was seized.

This was one day after an Italian tanker was taken.

Is there something missing here?
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 09:47
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A lot of oil?
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 10:01
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Is there something missing here?
Yes the will by spineless governments to deal with the matter properly in case the huggy fluffs start screaming about human rights. Countries like Russia, who don't give a toss about world opinion and deal with the matter by blasting the pirates out of the water if they attack, don't have their ships molested any more.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 10:07
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@ Pontious Navigator,

Is there something missing here?
The ships might be of foreign ownership, the crews another nationality and the cargo due for multiple destinations, and owned by a totally different organisation.

For instance Shell might charter a greek owned tanker, registered in Monrovia that is crewed by Norwegians, Brits and Filipinos. The oil Shell wants carried might be from a Saudi oilfield and hence will be 50/50 Saudi/ Shell owned. The oil may be destined for the UK and other destinations, particularly after having been refined at a single location. Shell also have different charter contracts that share risk in differing ways and amounts.

Therefore a request for UK force protection is not as daft as it might first appear.

Hval
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 10:09
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Since when have those sitting at desks had anything other than warm @rses and the colour of the office curtains and carpets as a priority.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 10:24
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@ Avitor

Don't you like the floor length, velvet, Barbie pink curtains in my office?

Hval
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 10:35
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What we need is an MPA so that a large area of ocean can be covered quickly to locate these to$$ers and then vector warships, helicopters and ribs in to 'deal' with them

Ahh, I see a problem there - well done Cameron

MadMark!!!
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 10:58
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Well I wouldn't expect much as a kn0b of a Wg Cdr on the Today programme last week was talking about the Pirates 'business model' - wtf? Staff school bollox
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 11:11
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Originally Posted by hval
@ Avitor

Don't you like the floor length, velvet, Barbie pink curtains in my office?

Hval
I got only as far north as Newcastle and saw enough. I thought about foraging further north but I had a feeling that agoraphobia was about to strike - as well as fear - and thought better of it. Have fun....
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 13:29
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As RDS has its registered office on the banks of the Thames and is a large constituent of the London Stock Exchange then I don't think its unreasonable for them to ask the Royal Navy to assist in providing a bit of safety in the worlds shipping lanes.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 13:37
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I don't think its unreasonable for them to ask the Royal Navy to assist in providing a bit of safety in the worlds shipping lanes.
That of course was one of the original reasons for having a strong navy, to protect British shipping anywhere in the world as it sailed around the Empire.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 13:48
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Seeing as we do the whole net centric thing so well these days, witht he advent of killer UAVs etc, what would be wrong with those Gimpy/minigun/40mm auto grenade launchers aimed with CCTV and monitored via satlink? as soon as we are within ROE, the military could engage targets from the tanker. The tanker companies could cover the install and maintainance cost, governments the manning and ROE, the pirates get wasted.

I have seen CCTV aimed weapons all over MRAP, all it takes is the "next step", IE satlink to the CCTV and weapon aiming.

Would seem to solve a lot of problems and means you dont need the boots on the ground to drill 7.62mm holes in these F*ckers. Skipper could even have a panic alarm.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 13:59
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Gun boats at the ready!

I can see the request from on high for some protection in this area that is troubled by pirates....................... "send a frigate or two & one of those long range jets as air support"

"Errrr minister we can only find a minesweeper with air support if we are very lucky from a C130 that we have diverted from another trouble spot".

"well why are there no long range jets avalable?"

"minister you orderd them to be chopped up last week!"
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 14:33
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Pirates Business Model

@ pma 32dd,

talking about the Pirates 'business model' - wtf?
The Wg Cdr wasn't as off target as one might believe. A couple of links for you. Have pasted one article and put a link to the second one, from the Financial Times.

From Wired

The rough fishermen of the so-called Somali coast guard are unrepentant criminals, yes, but they're more than that. They're innovators. Where earlier sea bandits were satisfied to make off with a dinghy full of booty, pirates who prowl northeast Africa's Gulf of Aden hold captured ships for ransom. This strategy has been fabulously successful: The typical payoff today is 100 times what it was in 2005, and the number of attacks has skyrocketed.
Like any business, Somali piracy can be explained in purely economic terms. It flourishes by exploiting the incentives that drive international maritime trade. The other parties involved — shippers, insurers, private security contractors, and numerous national navies — stand to gain more (or at least lose less) by tolerating it than by putting up a serious fight. As for the pirates, their escalating demands are a method of price discovery, a way of gauging how much the market will bear.
The risk-and-reward calculations for the various players arise at key points of tension: at the outset of a shipment, when a vessel comes under attack, during ransom negotiations, and when a deal is struck. As long as national navies don't roll in with guns blazing, the region's peculiar economics ensure that most everyone gets a cut.
All of which makes daring rescues, like the liberation in April of the Maersk Alabama's captain, the exception rather than the rule. Such derring-do may become more frequent as public pressure builds to deep-six the brigands. However, the story of the Stolt Valor, captured on September 15, 2008, is more typical. Here's how it played out, along with the cold, hard numbers that have put the Somali pirate business model at the center of a growth industry.

Second article from the Financial Times

This is a good article worth a read. Can't cut and paste due to copyright reasons.

Hval

Last edited by hval; 13th Feb 2011 at 14:56.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 15:18
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From the same paper.


British Aid Holds Terrorists & Pirates at Bay


“This is not just aid from Britain; it is aid for Britain too. Our aid to Somalia [Somaliland] is helping to make Britain safer, because conflict doesn’t just claim innocent lives in Somalia [Somaliland]; it also leads to international problems like piracy, migration and terrorism. None of these will be solved without tackling their root causes: ongoing instability and extreme poverty.”— U.K.’s International Development Secretary, Andrew Mitchell.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 15:38
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Selective quotation!

I think what is missing is what he actually said!

'Speaking on behalf of BSC members, he said international naval forces, including the Royal Navy, need to attack the giant floating bases, which have recently enabled pirates to threaten an area of the sea the size of the United States'.

That's a bit different from how this thread was started isn't it? He was asking for action from international forces not just the Royal Navy. Fair enough idea I would have thought (not that it's a new idea of course, and neither are mother ships, but if anyone thinks an international task organisation is going to authorise the use of deadly force on mother ships they really have no idea about the way things are done and probably won't know what POLADs LEGADs or ROE really are either.

While I am here by the way, on one of the few occasions kinetic action was taken by a unit (outwith an international task force) a crew of 20 odd innocent Thai fishermen died.

Unfortunately charging around shooting people isn't the way to solve the problem. It, and the issues that gave rise to it, have to be tackled at source and the truth is that it's probably easier to allow companies to shell out a few million every now and then than to open what would be a huge can of worms by trying to sort Somalia out.
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 16:19
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Pirates = Live targets

Collateral damage? Yes. So... I am not really bothered. No. Please now tell me that the Somalis will withdraw their diplomatic missions from the UK. Even better. To get more targets, make sure "Trackers" are fitted to all top end Mercedes and Toyotas sold in Africa.

Extreme? Very. Will the lesson be learnt? Yes, very quickly or Darwinism will take it's course. Oh, and while we are at it, the targeting of the pirates appears to be very specific. So why don't we get our gifted and clever MI5/6 to find the information source and arrange for it to be silenced? Maybe those providing the information might like to go fishing, say in the Indian Ocean?

PM
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 16:46
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My scepticism was obviously missed.

In the article quoted the only direct British mention was the Royal Navy. The only direct link was that Shell had an office on the Thames. The only indirect link mentioned is
crewed by . . . Brits . . .
.

There is a possibility that oil bought by a part British company that I part own in a ship that might have a British crew members might be hijacked.

There is an equal possibilty that a cruise ship manned by British officers, carrying British passengers also part owned by me might also be at risk.

Why was there no appeal by RDS to European States such as Italy and Greece or to the navies of Saudi Arabia, Yemen or Dubai? Or even to the owners of the oil - the USA?

Why us?
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 16:52
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@ Piltdown Man,

So why don't we get our gifted and clever MI5/6 to find the information source and arrange for it to be silenced?
This might be desirable, but the majority of Security Service, GCHQ and Secret Intelligence Service are otherwise engaged. I am not sure how good our Somali humint is either; I suspect that it is not good.

To increase humint and other intel data levels would require further budget increases, above and beyond what has already occurred. With current budgetary restrictions I believe (my own opinion) that this is unlikely to happen. Providing aid to Somali military and police is a cheaper option, with less direct hazards to UK security. Also the Somalis are not as restricted in how they gather "information". Human Rights don't apply.

I do not necessarily agree with this conclusion as I believe national security to be paramount. Unfortunately the Coalition Government would appear to disagree.

Hval
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Old 13th Feb 2011, 17:24
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Originally Posted by baffy boy
I think what is missing is what he actually said!

'Speaking on behalf of BSC members, he said international naval forces, including the Royal Navy, need to attack the giant floating bases, which have recently enabled pirates to threaten an area of the sea the size of the United States'.

That's a bit different from how this thread was started isn't it? He was asking for action from international forces not just the Royal Navy.
baffy thank you for sourcing the original quote. As I said 'the Torygraph'. Obviously an editorial axe grinder was at work.

Concerted international action is certainly required. There is a solution that would avoid friendly fire deaths, although not reprisal killings by the pirate, and the film 'Sink the Bismark' brings it to mind. Shoot out the rudder and propellor then they aren't going anywhere.
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