Your just "Public Sector Workers"

[Canadian Break]

It's only a matter of time before "Really Really Annoyed" comes along to really annoy Really Annoyed. Mark my words.

[ORAC]

[Alpha Whiskey]

At the risk of taking this in a completely different direction having come to it late, when did Susan Boyle get herself apppointed as PUS?????

[Sgt.Slabber]

Just another Public Sector worker

Whitehall bonuses rise during recession year - Telegraph

Despite pay restraint and job losses in both the public and private sectors, Whitehall officials were paid a total of more than £136 million in bonuses. Some senior civil servants received as much as £50,000 extra..., etc!

Not applicable to members of HM Forces

[Jimlad1]

Groans as head bangs on large wall again - how many times does this subject crop up? Its not a bonus its the non consolidated element of the pay rise that HM Treasury didnt want to give us so that their pension bill doesnt increase.

Its a nasty devious scheme, designed to keep pay levels artificially low, and the pension bill lower, and also help makes CS look like greedy bankers, even when the average 'bonus' is about £300 per year.

I have yet to meet a single CS who likes or supports the scheme, but we're stuck with it thanks to Mr Gordon Brown and his dreadful years in office.

[ian16th]

Just another Public Sector worker

If we were/are 'Just another Public Sector worker' can someone please inform me what equivalent of these words, the CIVIL servants use?

OATH TO BE TAKEN BY RECRUIT ON ATTESTATION
I, Ian16th swear by Almighty God that I will be faithful and bear true allegiance to Her Majesty Queen Elizabeth the Second, Her Heirs and Successors, and that I will, as in duty bound, honestly and faithfully defend Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, in Person, Crown and Dignity against all enemies, and will observe and obey all orders of Her Majesty, Her Heirs and Successors, and of the Air Officers and Officers set over me. So help me God.

[general all rounder]

Its a nasty devious scheme, designed to keep pay levels artificially low, and the pension bill lower, and also help makes CS look like greedy bankers, even when the average 'bonus' is about £300 per year.

As an RAF officer with cluster responsibilities (ie awarding bonuses) I can only agree. The vast majority of bonuses are paid to those who have simply done an adequate job. You only don't get a bonus (at least this was true last year) if you are on the point of dismissal for incompetence.

The issue of the quote is not so much the substance (we are of course paid by the taxpayer and therefore public servants) as the implication that we don't have special status. There has for too long been a consensus about Service personnel which I think we should challenge.

Assumption 1) We are more expensive than civilians.

If this were the case why has Defence Inflation risen to 7% despite 20 years of consistent civilianisation and contractorisation?

This focusses on input cost not output value.

Assumption 2) We receive unsustainable pensions and allowances.

We receive the package we do to attract the quality necessary to make us agile, flexible, adaptable and expendable (ie prepared to accept the ultimate sacrifice). If the offer ain't good enough nor will the people be.

Assumption 3) Civilians are more professional.

Not true in my experience. Most principles of modern management were practised in the military before they were practised elsewhere. Particular theories such as Lean Six Sigma work for manufaturing, say, but are totally unsuited to a Service which much adapt to new realities in the blink of an eye. If you pretend to be a modern cost-lean commercial company you may strip out cost but you will also strip out flexibility, adaptability, scaleability and resilience. In other words come the next Strategic Shock you will lose.

Surely it is not beyond the wit of even our idiot ministers to see the consequences today of the assumptions made in the 90s and 00s and to reverse the trend. I say surely and yet the evidence is that they are indeed idiots.

[EGGP]

All Rounder

OK I'll bite

1.) Defence inflation is down to procurement rather than civilianisation; just think what the extra cost would be if they hadn't civilianised. They haven't done it for any reason other than cost.

2.) Both military and CS pensions are under threat. Let's face it Maggie wanted to screw our pensions in 1980 until she realised we actually paid for them. She was convinced by the facts.

The problem is that instead of working from 16-65 and living 5 to 10 years in receipt of a pension afterwards; society is now mostly going to university and not starting work till early 20's and wanting to retire in mid 50's and collect a pension until they die thirty plus years later on average.

The fall in the birth rate led to lots of school closures in recent years because the number of children is less. There will be fewer people of working age paying for all the baby boomers in years to come. Final salary Pensions for CS and military come from current government receipts as well as state retirement pension. Hence why Mr Hutton will be reducing benefits and increasing contributions from employees in a few months because the taxpayer is revolting. However if you listen to the More or Less programme on radio 4 this is just a load of b*****ks because the percentage of GDP will remain essentially the same to pay pensions.

BBC - BBC Radio 4 Programmes - More or Less, 17/09/2010 I've just listened to the programme and it isn't the one I had thought; I'll find the other programme and link this as well

I can't find the more or less link but this is what it was about

The cost of public service pensions

3.) it's got nothing to do with it , see 1.) above.

EGGP