Wikileaks-gawd bless

[XV277]

Surely the key point is that whilst Obama gives the Russians details of the total number of missiles we have, they have not told the Russians how many are deployed and how many warheads are fitted to those?

So a boat could be at sea with anywhere between 1 and 16 missiles and an undisclosed number of warheads fitted to each.

[Lima Juliet]

Tourist

yes we bought lots of weapons from the US

Yes they nearly bankrupted us.

I hardly think that makes them helpful

Joining in at the start or giving free would have been nice........

Have you ever read about what they did? Here's a good short version from Wiki:

There was no charge for the Lend Lease aid delivered during the war, but the Americans did expect the return of some durable goods such as ships. Congress had not authorized the gift of supplies after the war, so the administration charged for them, usually at a 90% discount. Large quantities of undelivered goods were in Britain or in transit when Lend-Lease terminated on 2 September 1945. Britain wished to retain some of this equipment in the immediate post war period. In 1946, the post-war Anglo-American loan further indebted Britain to the U.S. Lend-lease items retained were sold to Britain at 10% of nominal value, giving an initial loan value of £1.075 billion for the Lend Lease portion of the post-war loans. Payment was to be stretched out over 50 annual payments, starting in 1951 and with five years of deferred payments, at 2% interest. The final payment of $83.3 million (£42.5 million), due on 31 December 2006 (repayment having been deferred in the allowed five years), was made on 29 December 2006 (the last working day of the year).

Seems resonably generous to me!

LJ

[cazatou]

An American Pilot (Fg Off Carl Raymond Davis) took part in the first RAF attack on Germany in 1939 when Blenheims from 25 and 601 Sqn attacked the German Seaplane Base at Borkum.

601 Sqn subsequently re-equipped with Hurricanes and CR Davis was the 10th highest scoring Fighter Pilot in the Battle of Britain - at the cost of his life.

[GreenKnight121]

Originally Posted by Leon Jabachjabicz

Lend-lease items retained were sold to Britain at 10% of nominal value,

Yes, those 10% charges were only for what you decided to keep.

Anything returned or destroyed was not charged at all!

Yes, we were so interested in profiting at Britain's expense, weren't we... we produced all those ships, aircraft, tanks, etc AT OUR OWN EXPENSE, and let you use them free of charge.

Then we only charged you for what you kept after it was all over.
Such greedy barstewards we are.

Originally Posted by DC10RealMan

In referring to Britains contribution to both world wars once should remember who was with us from day one ie: countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, India and all the other countries of the Commonwealth.

Yep... all countries ruled by King George VI.


The USA was not, so we were no longer subjects of His Majesty, nor required to follow the orders of #10 Downing.

Comments from Brits such as some have expressed in this thread leave me feeling that that small fact is forgotten, and that some Brits feel our failure to jump when Churchill spoke was an act of treason, not the decision of a free and independent nation.

[Dengue_Dude]

Isn't our only submarine stranded on a sandbank, or is that a different sort?

It's so hard to keep track of them both . . .

[SASless]

Odd how some interpret Lend Lease and other aid to the UK before, during, and after the War. Yes we were "late" to the battleground ashore but then we had no duty to defend the UK as we were not bound by Treaty to do so owing to our independence from European obligations such as the UK had. Both World Wars got started by mutual defense treaties that drew nations into the war.

I would suggest the Bankruptcy of the UK came not from Lend Lease but from the sheer cost of fighting a second World War so soon after the first one.....then compounded by having to defend a colonial empire while doing so.

Every time I hear a Brit say we were late to the fight....I recall the sinking of American Destroyers escorting convoys such as the USS Reuben James. I also think of my neighbor who flew Lancasters for Bomber Command and those like him.

If you find Lend Lease expensive....what of the alternative?

[Octane]

Uncle Sam would have had a 'largish' problem invading Europe if Britain, the Commonwealth countries, the Polish, Free French etc etc hadn't kept the Jerries at bay for more than two years. If the UK had fallen in the summer of 1940, where was the 8th AAF going to operate from 3 years later? Much of the lend lease stuff was obsolete sold for profit. I don't believe much in the way of USA aircraft operated during the BoB.To say the USA won WWII is absurd. It was a group effort......

RADAR technology-gift from the Brits
Jet Engine technology-ditto
Intercontinental Ballistic Miissile technology-thank the Germans for that...
Nuclear Weapons-Scientists from a dozen or more countries.......

[The Gorilla]

And let's not forget the American capture of the Enigma machine from a sub!! It must be true I saw it on a film...

[cazatou]

Octane

1.The first German aircraft destroyed by the RAF in WW2 was a Dornier Do18 shot down by a Lockheed Hudson of 224 Sqn on Oct 8 1939.

2. A short list of aircraft types supplied by the USA to the RAF:-

Airacobra, Buffalo, Catalina, Liberator, Fortress, Mohawk, Tomahawk, Kittyhawk, Havoc, Boston, Dakota, Hudson, Ventura, Maryland, Baltimore, Marauder, Harvard, Mustang, Mitchell and Thunderbolt. In addition there were the gliders such as the Hadrian, Sentinel and Vigilant.

[cazatou]

The Gorilla

Are you referring to the "escapade" of the crew of HMS Bulldog on 8th May 1941?

[Wander00]

And I had the great privileg of knowing the Officer from HMS Bulldog who captured the Enigma from U 110, as he was a member of the yacht club of which I was Secretary for 10 years.

[draken55]

"A short list of aircraft types supplied by the USA to the RAF"

In addition to which the USA supplied Wildcats, Marylands, Kingfishers, Hellcats, Avengers and Corsairs to the Fleet Air Arm. In fact without US aircraft the Royal Navy would have been in a very sorry state in World War Two

US shipyards repaired and refitted battle damaged carriers such as Illustrious and Formidable and supplied large numbers of Escort Carriers to the Royal Navy as well as the aircraft to fly from them.

[ormeside]

Be fair!!

What about the training in America under the Arnold Scheme of pilots and navigators, for the RAF and RN, before the U.S. were in the war,and then, after Pearl Harbour, the BFTS'S, and the Tower's scheme all paid for by the US. In 1952 the Americans let us have fifty Neptunes whilst we in Coastal were waiting for more Shackletons. Do you honestly think that the Cold War would have been finished without the American effort ?. We certainly couldn't have managed it by ourselves. Just think how much it must have cost the American taxpayer to set up NATO> It nearly beggared us!!

[DC10RealMan]

Greenknight121 is not quite correct. Commonwealth countries such as Australia, New Zealand, Canada, South Africa, Rhodesia all had independent administrations headed by a Prime Minister such as Mackenzie-King in Canada and Robert Menzies in Australia. The legacy of the Anglo-Boer war at the turn of the 20th Century left such an anti-British feeling in some parts of South Africa that it was a close run thing whether South Africa would join the British cause.
I would agree that India was subject to direct rule from London.
King George VI was the head of state of these countries such as Queen Elizabeth II is still the head of state of some of them today.

[billynospares]

Enough of the willy waving ! A huge amount of good men and women from all the allied nations paid the ultimate sacrifice for us and I for one will be eternally grateful and in thier debt

[Octane]

Cazatou

1. A Hudson shot down a Dornier? A bomber shot down a bomber... I thought it was a Hurricane based in Scotland that did the deed?

2. How many of those aircraft types you mention saw action pre December !941?

3. I forgot about Enigma and Bletchley Park. Thanks Mr. Gorilla.

4. Billynospares is on the money, end of the day, group effort by many...

Cheers..

[con-pilot]

How many of those aircraft types you mention saw action pre December !941?

Well at least one for damn sure, a PBY Catalina, it found the Bismark.

[draken55]

"How many of those aircraft types you mention saw action pre December 1941"

As well as the Catalina, the Boeing Flying Fortress, Douglas Havoc/Boston, Martin Baltimore, Curtiss Tomahawk and for the Navy the Grumman Martlet had all seen action before then.

[cazatou]

Octane

Your post 36

Airacobra, Buffalo, Catalina, Tomahawk, Havoc, Boston, Hudson, Maryland, Baltimore, Harvard, Mustang.

Mohawks were held in reserve as a last ditch reinforcement if the supply of Hurricanes and Spitfires dried up.

[Lima Juliet]

Just to show that things were happening between the US and the UK before 1941:

In 1938, the British Purchasing Commission sought an American maritime patrol aircraft and light bomber for the United Kingdom to support the Royal Air Force's Avro Anson. On 10th December 1938, Lockheed produced a modified version of the Lockheed Model 14 Super Electra which was a commercial airliner and the Hudson Mk I went into production. The Hudson was the first significant aircraft construction contract for the Lockhead Aircraft Corporation with the initial RAF order for 200 Hudsons far surpassed any previous order the company had received. By February 1939, Hudsons began to be delivered. A total of 350 Mk I and 20 Mk II Hudsons were supplied in total. These had two fixed Browning machine guns in the nose and two more in a Boulton Paul dorsal turret. Initially the first batch of Hudsons were supplied to No.224 Squadron RAF based at RAF Leuchers in May 1939. By the start of the war in September 78 Hudsons were in service. Not only did the RAF use the Hudson but the Hudson also served throughout the war with Coastal Command and was also used in transport and training roles as well as delivering agents into occupied France. They were also used extensively with the Royal Canadian Air Force wiht their anti-submarine squadrons. They were operated by RAF Special Duties squadrons for clandestine operations, with No.161 Squadron in Europe and No.357 Squadron operating in Burma.

Also, a Hudson of 224 Sqn from RAF Leuchars exchanged shots with a Luftwaffe Dornier 18 as early as 4 September 1939. But the first confirmed kill was as already stated 8 October 1940 by 224 Sqn again in a Hudson. They were a part of Coastal Command. Fighter Command's first kill was 16 October 1939 by a pair of Spitfires from RAF Turnhouse on a Luftwaffe JU88s that were attacking HMS HOOD at Rosyth.

When it came to realising how much I should appreciate the US sacrifice for fighting in Europe then it was this place that did it for me when I went there as a kid:



This is near Cambridge and there are 3,812 US servicemen (mostly US Army Air Force) with the names of another 5,125 that are unaccounted for.

I state again, that I am grateful for the efforts of the US Forces in the past and also at present. Yes, some of our national objectives and aims may be slightly different, but the comradery that we share is 2nd to none and long may it continue.

LJ