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Airtanker

Old 29th Jan 2011, 07:45
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Airtanker

Oh dear, the RAF wants 330 pilots on the cheap now.

A330 Pilots - 1401088628 - Flight Jobs

I wonder if they realise there are minimal bus rated guys out there who'll do this for below market value - or is the remuneration/package "market leading"?

How about paying for some current military pilots to convert, perhaps Nimrod, Dominie or Harrier? Sorry probably not in the business plan.

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Old 29th Jan 2011, 08:49
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You might obtain a clearer view of the available vacancies, including the 'Sponsored Reservist' requirements, at Jobs AirTanker .

Clearly it makes sense to adertise for some existing A330 aircrew to join the company and pass on their experience, although from what I've heard the vast majority of pilots will be drawn from within the RAF's current AAR fleets. Assuming, that is, they don't all leg it to the airlines.....

When the VC10K fleet first started, all the captains were either ex-Victor/Vulcan AAR or ex-VC10. Some were both. The first co-pilots came from a variety of backgrounds, although it was a couple of years before the first ab-initios arrived. The synergy of this mix led to a sound operational method being evolved, without a legacy of "We always did it this way on the...." dominating. The A330MRTT fleet will probably adopt a similar strategy.
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 09:22
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32dd - just for the sake of accuracy, it's "wubble", a common mistake.

See here, minute 3:53 and again at 4:04.

apols for off thread.

Last edited by just another jocky; 29th Jan 2011 at 10:10.
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 09:48
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An A330 training captain will not be cheap. In China he would expect married accompanied plus allowances totaling US18,000/month tax free.
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 09:55
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Salaries in China can reach that value for a very good reason - no bugger would go there otherwise! Comparing working in China to the UK is like comparing apples and oranges.

On the topic of Airtanker, I am not 330 rated, so don't get a look in but I would be interested to hear what the Ts and Cs will be.
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 10:41
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When the VC10K fleet first started, all the captains were either ex-Victor/Vulcan AAR or ex-VC10. Some were both. The first co-pilots came from a variety of backgrounds, although it was a couple of years before the first ab-initios arrived. The synergy of this mix led to a sound operational method being evolved, without a legacy of "We always did it this way on the...." dominating. The A330MRTT fleet will probably adopt a similar strategy.
Weren't the VC10 C1 pilots all Sqn Ldrs as well to stop them defecting to the darkside where the pay was greater for those under Sqn Ldr rank, and that only ceased when the Civilian world got rid of them and sold them to the RAF, then you started getting lower ranks flying them.

I wonder if this will happen again with the A330, as a young RAF pilot converted onto type with a few hours under his belt must look a good bet on the civilian airline fleets if things ever pick up.
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 15:00
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but I would be interested to hear what the Ts and Cs will be.
Dont expect Incidentals.

Exchange your usual hotel room for a tent with U/S air con

Expect to be treated like you have commited fraud each time you claim for food expenses don route.

and you might start to get close.


Last edited by VinRouge; 29th Jan 2011 at 21:42.
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 16:46
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Out of curiosity I hit the 'Apply Now' button & got a 'the URL is not valid' response! Is the software so high tech it can detect that I'm not actually A330 type rated?!
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Old 29th Jan 2011, 20:46
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VinRouge

Sounds just like what I am after! Thank you.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 05:17
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Salaries in China can reach that value for a very good reason - no bugger would go there otherwise!
Good point. You'd have to pay me lots of money to work in a dirty, over crowded country ...... ( wait for it..........)

Which is why I hopefully won't work in the UK again

Haven't seen the pay scales. Would imagine the package Vs quake desired don't match up.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 10:25
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I was out sailing a few days ago with a couple of A330 mates with VA and BA (the latter also ex FJ) and their view was that it would be difficult for Airtanker to recruit experienced A330 captains, as most would be reluctant to lose their LIFO seniority, not to mention trading staying in 5* hotels in places like Sydney, with staying in the mess at MPA or Kandahar. However, their view was that the possibly quicker route to command might appeal to some FOs, faced with a fifteen year wait for the LHS on the legacy airlines.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 11:17
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Not one 330 rated friend (Capt and FO) will consider the job. Admittedly, several are ex-RAF and have stated they have no desire to return to work alongside those in a dying service. The remuneration package would have to be significantly better than current packages in order for most to even consider the move.

The time to command on other fleets may provoke interest in some, but obviously only for a short term stint in which hours building would be key. From what I understand the opportunities for quick hours building will be negligible.

As for the source of service pilots I understand they are only going to draw around 25% from the current AAR fleets. Those remaining in from those fleets who don't have a coveted 330 slot will have serious decisions to make come 2013. Those on "sabbaticals" will probably have the priority for slots on frames which require people. In a ground tour you may go down to 50% or no flying pay by the end of it or PVR with no flying pay. As is probably the requirement at the moment, they are forcing people to take their options. I predict a healthy FRI by 2014.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 12:04
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''An A330 training captain will not be cheap. In China he would expect married accompanied plus allowances totaling US18,000/month tax free''.

And the rest!

I've no idea what Airtanker's Ts and Cs are, but to attract the pilots they need, they will have to be competitive. And with none of the thinking that they can get ex-service pilots for less because they have a pension.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:29
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NutLoose.
The VC10 Tanker captains never got automatic Sqn Ldr rank and around the time 101 was reformed several of the shiny 10 captains indeed went back down to Flt Lt as they were only holding acting rank. The 101 crews like to think that ( quite rightly in my opinion) they brought new thinking in VC10 operating to an already very safe fleet which has enabled it to continue so effectively for so long.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:33
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What is not really clear is wether the current RAF crews will be able to hack glass cockpits and modern systems were clockwork experience will count for nought.

The arogance of expecting to cope with the glass Tristars with no simulator gives an indication of how little the hurdle is understood.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:35
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Are not C-17, C-130J already glass cockpit?

Even the C-130K had some digital displays put in I believe...?
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:39
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I was thinking VC10 and Tristar. Yes it will be easier to convert from the C130J and C17.

Training will be a major control in managing the main operational hazard of "deviation from intended safe flight path".
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:46
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What do the FJ world do in terms of taking pilots from Hawk, which I believe is still a conventional type cockpit, onto a glass cockpit like Typhoon?

Surely there should already be some RAF corporate knowledge on this issue which can be applied...?
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:53
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It is much simpler taking a new pilot through that transition than one who has built their habits around conventional controls.

Plus remember that the FJ accident rate is much higher and that conceals the cases when the tranistion was not successful.
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Old 30th Jan 2011, 13:57
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Fine, thanks for the repy - just asking.


Presumably this was an issue that would have had to be faced by the MPA world, in terms of going from the clockwork MR2 to glass cockpit MRA4....

I don't know if they had done any work on it, on the basis the first MRA4 OCU had just about started when the aircraft was cancelled, which could be read across....
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