New Falklands War Brewing
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I like this from ARRSE:
[t+0:45:00] The RAF turn up late and point out that the four Typhoons at RAF Mt. Pleasant mean that the Argie air force would be able to "recover their downed pilots from the middle of the South Atlantic by the light of the burning ships of their invasion force".
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I commend the ARRSE thread to everyone.
Far wittier that this thread. Significantly better informed and much more insightful.
Hopefully the last word on the subject for a few years...but I doubt it.
I commend the ARRSE thread to everyone.
Far wittier that this thread. Significantly better informed and much more insightful.
Hopefully the last word on the subject for a few years...but I doubt it.
Far wittier that this thread. Significantly better informed and much more insightful.
Hopefully the last word on the subject for a few years...but I doubt it.
FB
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MILF
Milo, me dear chap, you need to "think out of the box". The tool for accomplishing the F in the acronym could easily be a piece of 2" x 4"! CB 
(On the noggin I hasten to add)!
(On the noggin I hasten to add)!
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Gentlemen - Remember who the primary users of Arrse are.
Hippocrocapigs are generally well regarded by the average squaddie, indeed often their married quarters are awash with them.
Hippocrocapigs are generally well regarded by the average squaddie, indeed often their married quarters are awash with them.
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Before writing anything more about invasion I believe that we have to start with asking questions: -
“What are Argentinas aims, what are the aims of President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and what are the aims of those who hold power in Argentina? The aims of each one of these may be the same, similar or different to varying degrees.
For instance President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner may want to go down in history as the person who gave Argentina the Malvinas & South Georgia. She may want to be seen as the President who tried to give the Malvinas to Argentina, whilst knowing that she can’t get them.
Do Argentina see the fact that there are islands close (ish)to their shore line that are owned by a foreign power? Think of Cuba and the USA.
Argentina have shown an interest in the Falkland Islands since the Great Britain owned them.
We know about the oil and fish. The fact that oil might be present was know by both the Uk and by Argentina before 1982 (Geological survey carried out in 1973 to 1975). This survey was carried out at the time of the oil crisis.
The President at the time, Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri Castelli, was also a General used the invasion to help take away political issues back home in Argentina. Anti-junta demonstrations were replaced by patriotic demonstrations in support of Galtieri.
Next we have to look at why do Argentina get from owning the Malvinas?
When Spain owned Argentina (which didn’t exist at the time, it was called Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata and comprised Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and part of Bolivia) Spain did own the Falkland Islands for a while. When Argentina became a nation of Argentinians, after Civil war, they felt they should own the Falkland Islands.
Do Argentina strategic, political or economic desires over the Falkland Islands?
I would have to say yes to all of them.
We now need to look at how could Argentina get control of the Falkland Islands. There are three main ways, or a combination of these: -
1/ Political means, which they are being quite successful at
2/ Invasion by Sea
3/ Invasion by air
Someone wrote that it would be possible to retaliate against any invasion very quickly. This is not necessarily true. An invasion by sea may not be detected for some time; after all they are very empty islands. The weather may not be very kind and may not allow transport of assets to the location of invasion. The troops and assets may not be in the correct location for a quick pick up and scoot. By the time sufficient forces were gathered, they may not be able to prevent the invasion. Submarines are a deterrent and are quite effective at hunter killing so this may not be an effective solution; if in the right place at the right time.
Invasion by air. It is possible. Even if all Typhoons work they could be overwhelmed by sufficient aircraft. There is no point in saying that Argentina don’t have sufficient, or enough aircraft. Do you know how many they have? They may borrow from other friendly South American countries, or Russia or? Another tactic might be to land civilian aircraft full of troops on to Mount Pleasant. Would a Typhoon shoot them down? How would it look in the press? The Uk could then be forced to hand over the Falkland Islands. The aircraft could land as a scheduled aircraft even. Defending Mount Pleasant would be extremely difficult. There are not that many troops there who are armed and/ or sufficiently trained to be able to prevent that form of invasion.
I have not written everything down, and what might actually happen could be entirely different
What ever happens we can not expect support from Europe, the USA or even the UN. Europe dislikes us, Hilary Clinton has shown support for Argentina on a number of occasions now. Also I don’t believe Argentina would work alone this time.
“What are Argentinas aims, what are the aims of President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner and what are the aims of those who hold power in Argentina? The aims of each one of these may be the same, similar or different to varying degrees.
For instance President Cristina Fernández de Kirchner may want to go down in history as the person who gave Argentina the Malvinas & South Georgia. She may want to be seen as the President who tried to give the Malvinas to Argentina, whilst knowing that she can’t get them.
Do Argentina see the fact that there are islands close (ish)to their shore line that are owned by a foreign power? Think of Cuba and the USA.
Argentina have shown an interest in the Falkland Islands since the Great Britain owned them.
We know about the oil and fish. The fact that oil might be present was know by both the Uk and by Argentina before 1982 (Geological survey carried out in 1973 to 1975). This survey was carried out at the time of the oil crisis.
The President at the time, Leopoldo Fortunato Galtieri Castelli, was also a General used the invasion to help take away political issues back home in Argentina. Anti-junta demonstrations were replaced by patriotic demonstrations in support of Galtieri.
Next we have to look at why do Argentina get from owning the Malvinas?
When Spain owned Argentina (which didn’t exist at the time, it was called Viceroyalty of the Río de la Plata and comprised Argentina, Uruguay, Paraguay and part of Bolivia) Spain did own the Falkland Islands for a while. When Argentina became a nation of Argentinians, after Civil war, they felt they should own the Falkland Islands.
Do Argentina strategic, political or economic desires over the Falkland Islands?
I would have to say yes to all of them.
We now need to look at how could Argentina get control of the Falkland Islands. There are three main ways, or a combination of these: -
1/ Political means, which they are being quite successful at
2/ Invasion by Sea
3/ Invasion by air
Someone wrote that it would be possible to retaliate against any invasion very quickly. This is not necessarily true. An invasion by sea may not be detected for some time; after all they are very empty islands. The weather may not be very kind and may not allow transport of assets to the location of invasion. The troops and assets may not be in the correct location for a quick pick up and scoot. By the time sufficient forces were gathered, they may not be able to prevent the invasion. Submarines are a deterrent and are quite effective at hunter killing so this may not be an effective solution; if in the right place at the right time.
Invasion by air. It is possible. Even if all Typhoons work they could be overwhelmed by sufficient aircraft. There is no point in saying that Argentina don’t have sufficient, or enough aircraft. Do you know how many they have? They may borrow from other friendly South American countries, or Russia or? Another tactic might be to land civilian aircraft full of troops on to Mount Pleasant. Would a Typhoon shoot them down? How would it look in the press? The Uk could then be forced to hand over the Falkland Islands. The aircraft could land as a scheduled aircraft even. Defending Mount Pleasant would be extremely difficult. There are not that many troops there who are armed and/ or sufficiently trained to be able to prevent that form of invasion.
I have not written everything down, and what might actually happen could be entirely different
What ever happens we can not expect support from Europe, the USA or even the UN. Europe dislikes us, Hilary Clinton has shown support for Argentina on a number of occasions now. Also I don’t believe Argentina would work alone this time.
Also I don’t believe Argentina would work alone this time.
A substantive threat across a number of different zones could have Typhoons withdrawn...................
Given the stretching of forces Argentina only has to wait for a year or two.
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Anyone who suggests Christana is worthy of MILF status obviously has a warped / twisted mind
drop a few missiles or shells from a ship on the fuel dump at Ascension,and the threat of reinforcement becomes negligible. Add a prolonged period of winter gales or fog and the reinforcing aircraft would have to divert to Argentina
MAINJAFAD, I did read the thread again, my interpreation is less bullish than yours
To me this was/is a very fragile stance to rely upon rapid reinforcement, especially during the capability holidays we are taking.
hval, surely no modern honourable country would use such a Trojan horse to start an invasion? The only proper means to begin an invasion would be highly publicised massing of manpower, equipment and naval forces to raise the morale of the population. Perhaps an inspection by a visiting head of state would allow the British Intelligence Services to spot something was happening and instigate the formation of a task force to reinforce the garrison...
Great teamwork getting Typhoons to Falklands
Senior RAF officers have paid tribute to squadrons across Britain following the successful deployment of four Eurofighter Typhoons to the Falkland Islands.
Following one of the largest peacetime logistical missions of its kind in the Service’s history, codenamed Operation Typhoon Tempest Trail, four of the latest jets touched down in the South Atlantic after travelling 9,000 miles across the globe.
The aircraft, from 11 Squadron RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire, replace the Tornado F3 fighters from RAF Leuchars, in Fife, which have completed 17 years’ service protecting UK interests on the other side of the world.
The touchdown at Mount Pleasant airbase marked the completion of months of planning and hard work.
“The extent of the challenge should not be underestimated,” said Squadron Leader Pete Morgan, an air-to-air refuelling specialist working for 2 Group at Air Command – the controlling authority for the operation.
“Not only was there a real requirement to deploy the Typhoons to replace the shortly-to-be-retired Tornado F3s, but the UK was also keen to demonstrate its continued ability to force project air power over strategic distances.”
Typhoon Tempest Trail involved 10 support aircraft from four squadrons flying 280 hours backed by 95 personnel, in addition to the fighters and their aircrews.
In a two-stage operation the aircraft were trailed by tankers to Ascension Island, using the Canary Islands as a staging post. From Ascension, they were trailed again to the Falkland Islands without any outside assistance.
Sqn Ldr Morgan said: “As a result, a complicated air-to-air refuelling plan was required with the Ascension to Falkland Islands leg being by far the most challenging.
The Typhoons were accompanied by a TriStar aircraft throughout, whereas the other air-to-air assets provided fuel at various stages before returning to Ascension; in all, each Typhoon was required to refuel seven times.
“The Falkland Islands-based VC10 aircraft was on hand to provide a final top-up of fuel if required and to enable the Typhoons to divert to the South American mainland had the weather deteriorated unexpectedly during the nine-and-a-half hour transit.”
In addition, Hercules and Nimrod aircraft provided Search and Rescue cover for the long sea transits, and were equipped with survival equipment and spare life rafts that could be dropped to any survivors in the water in the event of an incident that necessitated the Typhoons ditching.
Originally posted on RAF website. (Currently being updated)
Senior RAF officers have paid tribute to squadrons across Britain following the successful deployment of four Eurofighter Typhoons to the Falkland Islands.
Following one of the largest peacetime logistical missions of its kind in the Service’s history, codenamed Operation Typhoon Tempest Trail, four of the latest jets touched down in the South Atlantic after travelling 9,000 miles across the globe.
The aircraft, from 11 Squadron RAF Coningsby in Lincolnshire, replace the Tornado F3 fighters from RAF Leuchars, in Fife, which have completed 17 years’ service protecting UK interests on the other side of the world.
The touchdown at Mount Pleasant airbase marked the completion of months of planning and hard work.
“The extent of the challenge should not be underestimated,” said Squadron Leader Pete Morgan, an air-to-air refuelling specialist working for 2 Group at Air Command – the controlling authority for the operation.
“Not only was there a real requirement to deploy the Typhoons to replace the shortly-to-be-retired Tornado F3s, but the UK was also keen to demonstrate its continued ability to force project air power over strategic distances.”
Typhoon Tempest Trail involved 10 support aircraft from four squadrons flying 280 hours backed by 95 personnel, in addition to the fighters and their aircrews.
In a two-stage operation the aircraft were trailed by tankers to Ascension Island, using the Canary Islands as a staging post. From Ascension, they were trailed again to the Falkland Islands without any outside assistance.
Sqn Ldr Morgan said: “As a result, a complicated air-to-air refuelling plan was required with the Ascension to Falkland Islands leg being by far the most challenging.
The Typhoons were accompanied by a TriStar aircraft throughout, whereas the other air-to-air assets provided fuel at various stages before returning to Ascension; in all, each Typhoon was required to refuel seven times.
“The Falkland Islands-based VC10 aircraft was on hand to provide a final top-up of fuel if required and to enable the Typhoons to divert to the South American mainland had the weather deteriorated unexpectedly during the nine-and-a-half hour transit.”
In addition, Hercules and Nimrod aircraft provided Search and Rescue cover for the long sea transits, and were equipped with survival equipment and spare life rafts that could be dropped to any survivors in the water in the event of an incident that necessitated the Typhoons ditching.
Originally posted on RAF website. (Currently being updated)
hval, surely no modern honourable country would use such a Trojan horse to start an invasion? The only proper means to begin an invasion would be highly publicised massing of manpower, equipment and naval forces to raise the morale of the population. Perhaps an inspection by a visiting head of state would allow the British Intelligence Services to spot something was happening and instigate the formation of a task force to reinforce the garrison...
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Harley Quinn,
You may be right. My point is supposition. there may be better ways of Argentina getting what they want.
surely no modern honourable country would use such a Trojan horse to start an invasion?
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Thin pinstriped offers interesting comment via AARSE. Is not the primary issue "Does the UK want to retain influence over the Falklands?" I find it difficult to believe that the US would undermine us (Brits) on this, given our support for the US over the last 10+ years.
"The past is a foreign country: they do things differently there."
It really doesn't matter how chummy we've been, it depends on who the Americans think will offer them the better deal.
I think it used to known as Realpolitik, something the White House has engaged in in the past.
It really doesn't matter how chummy we've been, it depends on who the Americans think will offer them the better deal.
I think it used to known as Realpolitik, something the White House has engaged in in the past.
"Thin pinstriped offers interesting comment via AARSE"
That would be me - glad to know you think its quite interesting take. Am pleased with the response to my FI links. Annoyingly I cant crosspost here due to the system deleting reference to a certain blogging website when links are posted.
That would be me - glad to know you think its quite interesting take. Am pleased with the response to my FI links. Annoyingly I cant crosspost here due to the system deleting reference to a certain blogging website when links are posted.
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BBC News - Destroyer ship HMS Dauntless set for Falklands
No doubt sent to wind the Argies up a bit more
No doubt sent to wind the Argies up a bit more