AOC 1 Gp breaks ranks

[Dengue_Dude]

AOC 1 Gp has been a regular visitor to Cottesmore since last year

Not got too many choices now has he?

He could spend 2 months a year with each squadron - hands-on management! That is, of course, if he doesn't follow the Harrier out of service . . . early.

[Yozzer]

If wonder if Casework are working on the QR1027 for him yet. He could stare at himself in the mirror and give himself a little chat. Then conclude by posting himself to the worst job in the Royal Air Force with no hope of ever flying again in the hope that he might PVR. For that is what he personally did to a peer for a lessor though not entirely disimilar offence, and 'good faith' and 'misconstrued by others' was: 'no excuse'.

His comments may have been embellished by the media, but that is their job; it is called 'spin' when used in political circles, and being a senior officer is very political nowadays. ...unless your Burmese.

[Biggus]

Surely this entire thread is just a re-hash of news we were already aware of:


http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...jet-units.html


The latest article in the Telegraph even says...."Air Vice-Marshal Bagwell’s remarks, in a briefing last week to Defense News, a trade journal, are....".

Note the "trade journal" reference.....

[iRaven]

Maybe this also had something to do with this released about 4 days ago:

AIR RANK & COMMAND APPOINTMENTS LIST 10-10
Air Vice-Marshal G J Bagwell CBE to be Chief of Staff (Joint Warfare Development) in the Permanent Joint Headquarters, in August 2011, in succession to Maj Gen R J M Porter MBE.


Anyway, good on you Baggers (Sir), I wish that we had a few more like you at 2* and above.

iRaven

[Old-Duffer]

Yozzer,

You have tickled my interest with your last post.

Would you care to expand on your comments within the limits of the law of libel and the watchful (and infallable - of course) eye of the mods?

If the gentleman speaks with - put politely - forked tongue, then it might temper our view. However, we should not forget that some years ago a well known (even better known now) officer of the dark blue suited persuasion, left some papers lying around, which just happened to be found by a reporter. There was a strong body of opinion that wondered just how regretable this lapse was. Perhaps then, this is the air force actually stirring itself into action and the interview is Round One of the fightback.

To Horse, To Horse!!!

Old Duffer

[alisoncc]

The Last One

When I read this a few years ago it was amusing. Less so now.


I’m the last one left in the Air Force.
I’ve an office in MOD
And a copy of Queen’s Regulations
Which only apply to me.
I can post myself to Leuchars
And detach me from there to Kinloss
Or send me on courses to Cranwell
Then cancel the lot – I’m the boss.

I’m the last one left in the Air Force,
But the great Parliamentary brains
Omitted, when cancelling people,
To sell off the stations and planes.
The result is my Inventory bulges
With KD and campstools and Quarters.
Plus a signed book of verses by Trenchard
Which I keep for impressing reporters.

I’m the last one left in the Air Force
I suppose you imagine it’s great
To be master of all you survey
But I tell you – it’s difficult, mate.
I inspected three Units last Thursday
As C-in-C (Acting) Strike.
Then I swept half the runway at Leeming
And I repaired Boulmer’s best station bike.

I’m the last one left in the Air Force
And it’s not doing a lot for my health.
Station Sports Days are frankly exhausting
When the Victor Ludorum’s oneself.
On Guest Nights the Mess is so lonely
There are times that I wish I were able
To pass the port to the one on my left
Without watching it fall off the table.

I’m the last one left in the Air Force
And it’s quiet – but that apart –
There are plenty worse off, for example,
The only Sea Lord, for a start.
She was called out last Wednesday evening
(Joint Ops with the Army my oath)
But their rowing boat sank in the Channel
Which obliged me to rescue them both.

I’m the last one left in the Air Force
And my kids say I’m never around.
When I’m not flying Hercs or a Typhoon
I’m the lone QRA on the ground.
Or I’m doing sea-survival at Plymouth,
Shooting flares at the crowds on the Hoe,
Or I’m Orderly Corporal at Linton –
It’s an interesting life but all go!

I’m the last one left in the Air Force
I’m ADC to The Queen
I’m Duty Clerk at Brize Norton
I’m the RAF rugby team.
Tomorrow I’m the Queen’s Colour Squadron
Then air-testing several planes
And the day after that I’m in London
To preach at St Clement Danes.

I’m the last one left in the Air Force
And I’m due to go before long
But there’s been no hint of replacement
And I won’t even let me sign on.
I hope to enjoy my retirement
As I’ve put up a fairly good show
And I won’t cut myself off entirely
As there’s always reunions – you know!

Copyright unknown - found on the Net.

[Finningley Boy]

Can't quite understand his banter about "only six squadrons left in the RAF". Even if you leave out 22, 202 (and 84*) we've still got 7, 18, 27, 28, 33, 78 and 230 .......

Duh! NOW I get it .......

Perhaps Air Sec, AMP and/or ACAS should tell him .......

Yes TTH, he's referring to the cool noisy fun squadrons!

FB

[Beermonkey]

What strikes me about Baggers is that he's is the only Air Ranking Officer in the current mainstream that speaks to his people in plain english, without the usual on-message management speak and this comment is typical of that style.

I don't think that anyone should bemoan him for the last paragraph; I've been impressed on the 2 or 3 occasions that I've met him that we still have someone on high that connect with people of all ranks. If he's been reigned in by the management, then so be it; perhaps that speaks more of their weakness, rather than of this man and his principles.

[orca]

When you say that it would be nice to have a few more 2 star officers like this, are we missing the point that with 6 squadrons of fast air you probably need two 'OF-5 fast jet', and AOC 1 Gp should be a 1 star appointment? (At the very outside).

Time to re-awaken the Admirals versus boats debate as well.

Cue the 'they're ships actually blah, blah bah....', all 19 of them...

[Finningley Boy]

Does anyone ever imagine there could be cause for expansion by any degree at anytime in the future? Or is the mindset on the issue of Defence, as demonstrated by too many forums like this, rather similar to the one which believed Britain would never see snow again?

FB

[Old-Duffer]

Expansion - Not Likely

There are no circumstances I believe in which the armed forces will 'expand'.

The only times the RAF has 'expanded' since 1945 was briefly for Korea and then when the Thor & Bloodhound sqns were formed. The whole emphasis is to downsize, save money and unless the homeland is affected directly, that's how it's likely to continue.

The complexity is that size does not equate with capability but what seems to be overlooked is that you actually need a capability to project your capability.

The timescale for any future conflict is unlikely to allow for any expansion of capability. I also recall being on the margins of a conversation which went something like: 'we have to keep so many of aircraft X because if we don't, the Treasurer will never let us buy more of aircraft Y when we replace X'. This argument then became a numbers game not a capability game.

OH, my head hurts, it's too early to think about this ......... off to walk the dogs; it's perishing outside.

O-D

[Diablo Rouge]

A 'factor' in future worldwide conflict concerns our responsibilities to former 'empire' countries regardless of whether they remain Commonwealth countries. For example, a by-product of Jamaican independance is/was that we would 'protect' them for +50 years post independence. Hence the WIGS ship and an anual military exchange program (Ex Red Stripe) in which SME for a multitude of trades and an Infantry Regt would be deployed in a tree hugging exercise. That responsibility ends in 2012 and I am sure that other such former colonies pretty much got independence at the same time, therefore a 'burden' is removed within 2 years.

Of course the Falklands falls within this same bracket and is setting a precident by continued 'occupation' by HM Forces. Mixed signals on the global playing service results. For sure, if the will for the Malvinas raises its head again, the islanders had better start learning Spanish.

Probably not in my lifetime: But I forsee a UK Defence Force as a realistic proposition with a Joint HQ forced upon all military personel. The key word there is 'defence' not 'world stage', and all it requires is a change of mindset from 'empire' to 'small insignificant country' driven by the economy; traditions having been set aside.

[teeteringhead]

Boulmer’s best station bike.

... a blonde scopie corporal IIRC .....

[Wrathmonk]

he's is the only Air Ranking Officer in the current mainstream that speaks to his people in plain english

You've obviously not had the (genuine) pleasure of meeting AOC 2 Gp then! Tourettes rules - &%^$ yeah!

[F3sRBest]

You've obviously not had the (genuine) pleasure of meeting AOC 2 Gp then! Tourettes rules - &%^$ yeah!

absolutely

[Melchett01]

Force size down, costs up ... a paradox?

There are no circumstances I believe in which the armed forces will 'expand'. ...The whole emphasis is to downsize, save money and unless the homeland is affected directly, that's how it's likely to continue.

O-D,

I am unfortunately forced to agree with you that the emphasis is on down-sizing to save money. However, this is where the bean counters, and by implication the politicians who are driving them, have it wrong and quite frankly demonstrate their monumental ignorance of anything that doesn't look like a bottom line on a balance sheet.

For a start, we are in the process of 'allegedly re-equipping' with the latest high-tech capabilities. It doesn't take the brains of an archbishop to work out that the unit cost of these capabilities will increase as the numbers we order go down.

To take a hypothetical example, we buy 232 Typhoons at £ X million per ac; politicians and Joe Public are outraged that we should be spending X million per ac, so we reduce the numbers to cut costs. Unfortunately, industry has already spent £ Y million in developing said platform and their shareholders are keen to recoup costs and make a profit. The end result of all this is that whilst over all costs might appear to come down with a reduced order, the relative costs of each ac then becomes £ X+5 million per ac and relative value for money per ac goes down, with Joe Public becoming even more incensed that they have less to spend on benefits and the lefties even more outraged that they have less to spend on propping up various 3rd world defence budgets.

However, the real issue with what is going on in Defence in general and with the Air Force specifically is that re-structuring and re-positioning for 21st century threats, space, cyber warfare and UCAVs is without a doubt going to be eye-wateringly expensive. If that is the direction the govt assess we need to be moving in, then fine. But if you try doing that on the cheap, you will undoubtedly find yourself on the end of a whipping from some 18 yr old cyber guru sitting in China or Russia armed with little more than a decent computer, an encyclopedic knowledge of geekery and licence from a foreign intelligence service to cause chaos amongst western infidels.

There is absolutely no way, that as we push into the next generation of military capabilities that we are going to be able to skimp or save money by cutting platforms if you want a credible capability. And arguably, with much of our strategic national and financial infrastructure dependent on 1s and 0s, the internet and comms systems, we really can't afford to skimp here. Failure to spend here will result in a whole lot more pain than having grounding aircraft fleets for lack of maintenance over the years. And this is before you even take into account that you still need to maintain a half decent traditional military capability to act as a deterrent and deliver hard power where necessary. They may well have thought it through and come up with some sort of new 'strategy', but frankly, I'm not convinced that their logic is entirely in step with the reality of the situation.

Oh and by the way O-D, I suggest you pop down to Argos and get a treadmill - stick the hounds on it first thing in the morning and go back to bed. It's far too cold to be out that early.

[Old-Duffer]

Teeteringhead,

Re Post 34 - I didn't realise you knew (possibly in the biblical sense) my sister!

O-D

[Easy Street]

AOC 1 Gp is the only Air Ranking Officer in the current mainstream that speaks to his people in plain english

You've obviously not had the (genuine) pleasure of meeting AOC 2 Gp then! Tourettes rules - &%^$ yeah!

They were consecutive Stn Cdrs at Marham and I can add to the general consensus that both are outstanding leaders. If they are the 'GR4 Mafia' currently being derided by the Navy, well all I can say is that we're lucky to have them (CAS only did one Tornado tour, he's more of a Jag mate , and CinC finished as a Charioteer...)

[Old-Duffer]

A Tipping Point

Whilst we still have Trident, we can pretend to be at the top (defence) table but there comes a point when our conventional forces reach a 'tipping point' where we are unable to field the necessary military pressure and can only go along with somebody else. That 'somebody else' will never be the Euro Army if we want to win but it could continue to be a NATO - and hence explicitly US - 'somebody else' as we do at present. Many will feel we passed that point awhile ago

I believe our armed forces are now enfeebled to a degree where we have both major gaps in capability and serious deficiencies in volume. I am also concerned that the recent defence cuts - don't justify it as a 'review' - needs to be rebalanced now we know what the whole picture is. For example, should we press on with the Puma upgrade or should we apply that money somewhere else. What is the true cost of pressing ahead with Nimrod.

If the two carriers are being bought in part because of the costs of cancelling them, what is it going to cost to make them capable of operating the conventional version of JSF. Perhaps Government should say something like; 'we'll pay you for the work done and the money you've committed thusfar, but we did warn you not to sign those contracts and we won't pay you compensation but we will give you contract work to the equivalent value to produce the ships we actually want/need. If you want to sue, go ahead but then no more work from us'.

At present we see the odd retired chappie writing in 'Disgusted of Tunbridge Wells' mode to the newspapers but there is no concerted campaign to get the Government to retain what is really required for our security and the service chiefs - Bagwell excepted perhaps - seem to be supine; yet we know they aren't happy so why won't they fight for what's needed?

Rant over - I'm going outside now and I may be some little time!

Old Duffer --- in Captain Oates mood

[davejb]

I think part (at least) of the problem is that it's very hard, now, to see how the hardware we have can be equated to any sort of coherent defensive force - as used to be said of the Sovs, 'quantity has a quality all of its own', and Melchett has hit the nail fairly squarely regarding that point... we can't really afford the kit we need, and it doesn't save money to cut orders. So we end up with bits of what we need, bits that don't hang together all that well, and a sort of odd job list that we are now capable of - unfortunately the politicians never seem to refer to that list before committing our forces to the latest 'it looks good in the papers' conflict.

If we're only prepared to pay self defence force rates for the kit, then that is what we should reorganise our forces to provide. At the moment we seem to be gearing ourselves for interfering with folk a long way from home, and relying on the SAS to assassinate every enemy FJ driver before he gets airborne, whilst binning anything needed to defend the UK itself. We are assuming that for some time to come the threat will be from terrorists... not exactly unlikely, but there is no backup plan for when a more conventional force type is needed.

I was wondering, in an odd moment yesterday, whether we wouldn't be better off with something like the F16, with maybe a new build batch of Vulcans to provide the noisy stuff. Bags I a go in the air defence Chipmunk when we decide to field a squadron of anti UAV fighters! (Second thoughts let's build some Spits for that job).

Dave