25%+ cut in allowances!
Blighter Pilot - you, too, are out of date.
The retinue of senior officers has been drastically reduced; moreover as a 'bloated senior officer' and (former) policy maker I have done my fair share of unpleasant dets (including two overseas moves this year alone). And I do care what happens to the guys and girls that make the Air Force, and the Navy and the Army tick.
That does not mean that I am not concerned about my own well-being, or that of my family - especially education, given the frequent moves that I have undergone. I certainly don't feel ashamed that my son goes to a minor public school - albeit subsidised, but at a considerable personal cost (emotional and financial).
The retinue of senior officers has been drastically reduced; moreover as a 'bloated senior officer' and (former) policy maker I have done my fair share of unpleasant dets (including two overseas moves this year alone). And I do care what happens to the guys and girls that make the Air Force, and the Navy and the Army tick.
That does not mean that I am not concerned about my own well-being, or that of my family - especially education, given the frequent moves that I have undergone. I certainly don't feel ashamed that my son goes to a minor public school - albeit subsidised, but at a considerable personal cost (emotional and financial).
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That does not mean that I am not concerned about my own well-being, or that of my family - especially education, given the frequent moves that I have undergone. I certainly don't feel ashamed that my son goes to a minor public school - albeit subsidised, but at a considerable personal cost (emotional and financial).
Will you still think that everything in the MOD is fair and okay.
Perhaps I am closer to the front-line troops than yourself - the mood is not good, allowances could be the final straw.
(including two overseas moves this year alone)
I'm going out for my third 4 month OOA in the last 20 months, harmony is a thing of the past! On my return I will probably find I have lost my entitlement to CEA, had my HDT reduced and lost IE. Makes you really want to give your all for Queen and country, doesn't it?
Oh, and the last time I looked, Cmdt RAFC Cranwell had a chef, gardener and another member of domestic staff in addition to his/her PSO.
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Grumps,
When you state that.......'Flying related' posts are as rare as rocking horse poo, are all at Waddington in either the AWC or 56 Sqn and are currently being re-examined. Are you actually saying that what I said happened (albeit 8 years ago or whatever) is still going on?? If it is, then it is outrageous.
Your comment.......We knew the rules when we went to the AWACS so cannot complain about them being enforced when we leave........ suggests that in fact. it is still going on (something which I understand is the case still) With the demise of the fleet, there cannot be a shortage of FCs filling a pic slot, so I do genuingly wonder why those of you that are on a ground tour even need to say current?? Do you still retain a 'cat from the SSU?? I was under the impression that staying current is a problem on the fleet, and if that is so, then how can the case be argued that any of those on ground tours need to stay current at all?
Whenurhappy
Sir, if you are who you claim to be, then you are the first VSO to own up to it on PPrune - so congratulations and respect to you for that. I wonder what your thoughts and views are on some of the more major topics on here such as Nimrod MRA4 or Harrier?? maybe you could enlighten us all with some info on how these (shameful) decisions are arrived at please?
Regards to all and a very Merry Christmas to everyone by the way!!
When you state that.......'Flying related' posts are as rare as rocking horse poo, are all at Waddington in either the AWC or 56 Sqn and are currently being re-examined. Are you actually saying that what I said happened (albeit 8 years ago or whatever) is still going on?? If it is, then it is outrageous.
Your comment.......We knew the rules when we went to the AWACS so cannot complain about them being enforced when we leave........ suggests that in fact. it is still going on (something which I understand is the case still) With the demise of the fleet, there cannot be a shortage of FCs filling a pic slot, so I do genuingly wonder why those of you that are on a ground tour even need to say current?? Do you still retain a 'cat from the SSU?? I was under the impression that staying current is a problem on the fleet, and if that is so, then how can the case be argued that any of those on ground tours need to stay current at all?
Whenurhappy
Sir, if you are who you claim to be, then you are the first VSO to own up to it on PPrune - so congratulations and respect to you for that. I wonder what your thoughts and views are on some of the more major topics on here such as Nimrod MRA4 or Harrier?? maybe you could enlighten us all with some info on how these (shameful) decisions are arrived at please?
Regards to all and a very Merry Christmas to everyone by the way!!
Last edited by Winco; 14th Dec 2010 at 16:17.
Winco,
I left Main Building (or Defence HQ as it is now titled) 12 months ago so cannot, with any degree of truthfulness and accuracy, state how some of the decisions arose. It would be fair to say, however, that the inter-Service rivalry that characterised previous years had subsided somewhat when the depth of financial poo was established. In particular both the RN and the RAF were in the same strategic position - we've both got high-end strategic assets currently 'not in the fight' that are vulnerable given the land-centric focus of our current campaign in AFG.
I'm not a VSO, but just one down from them. I have been fortunate to have had a very varied career working within the RAF and another Service, a number of Joint staff appointments and several out-of-Service type jobs, with the Foreign Office, contractors, NATO and the US. Perhaps the one thing that I will take away from this is that the higher one stands, the bigger the problems become. Almost inevitiably, these problems have a political dimension that is outwith our ability to tackle them. I saw little behaviour that typified the 'shiny arsed, self-serving Airships' which some poster allude to on this, and other, sites. Most, if not all, are committed to what is best for the RAF and for our people; unfortunately it is not always possible to put this into practice.
I left Main Building (or Defence HQ as it is now titled) 12 months ago so cannot, with any degree of truthfulness and accuracy, state how some of the decisions arose. It would be fair to say, however, that the inter-Service rivalry that characterised previous years had subsided somewhat when the depth of financial poo was established. In particular both the RN and the RAF were in the same strategic position - we've both got high-end strategic assets currently 'not in the fight' that are vulnerable given the land-centric focus of our current campaign in AFG.
I'm not a VSO, but just one down from them. I have been fortunate to have had a very varied career working within the RAF and another Service, a number of Joint staff appointments and several out-of-Service type jobs, with the Foreign Office, contractors, NATO and the US. Perhaps the one thing that I will take away from this is that the higher one stands, the bigger the problems become. Almost inevitiably, these problems have a political dimension that is outwith our ability to tackle them. I saw little behaviour that typified the 'shiny arsed, self-serving Airships' which some poster allude to on this, and other, sites. Most, if not all, are committed to what is best for the RAF and for our people; unfortunately it is not always possible to put this into practice.
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Winco,
Apologies. The posts to which I refer are not fg related, they are fg posts, ie, jobs in which the incumbent is required to maintain currency and pass STANEVAL in order to maintain their specialist knowledge/experience for their posts. For example, OEU. In addition, there are still shortages within certain specialisations on the Sqn which require bolstering from the other units based at Waddo. As far as I know, and I stand by to be corrected, there are no FCs at Waddo receiving fg pay who are not current and subject to STANEVAL. The point remains, however, that there are still several PA/Spec A'crew personnel being paid the equivalent of fg pay who have not flown for years.
Apologies. The posts to which I refer are not fg related, they are fg posts, ie, jobs in which the incumbent is required to maintain currency and pass STANEVAL in order to maintain their specialist knowledge/experience for their posts. For example, OEU. In addition, there are still shortages within certain specialisations on the Sqn which require bolstering from the other units based at Waddo. As far as I know, and I stand by to be corrected, there are no FCs at Waddo receiving fg pay who are not current and subject to STANEVAL. The point remains, however, that there are still several PA/Spec A'crew personnel being paid the equivalent of fg pay who have not flown for years.
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Whenurhappy
PC to SCV is taken from you each time you apply for an SCV - even if you (like me) subsequently forget to do the actual claim!
However there has been a history on JPA of this not being taken from claimaints, resulting in some of us having to pay it back for most of the school terms in the last 5 years - you may be liable so it's worth checking.
CS
However there has been a history on JPA of this not being taken from claimaints, resulting in some of us having to pay it back for most of the school terms in the last 5 years - you may be liable so it's worth checking.
CS
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David Cameron soothes backbench anger by promising reform of expenses system - Telegraph
and the recent massive rise in allowances awarded to themselves by the Eurocrats.
Gits the lot of them!
and the recent massive rise in allowances awarded to themselves by the Eurocrats.
Gits the lot of them!
Camelspyyder - thanks for the tip. I cannot, for the life of me, fathom the pay statements (complicated by three moves this year!). I will try to get the information from JPAC. (Groan!).
Blighter pilot
No I would not be happy if I lost CEA or similar. Having shuttled around a hell of a lot this year (moved family twice, as well) I find myself in a post where it costs me more to live and I am paid less than I was in Whitehall. Am I happy about it? No. Would I vote with my feet if allowances are cut even further? Depends on the alternatives...
My visits to Theatre are short in my current appointment, but nonetheless I do them and speak to a lot of guys and girls when I am there. I do not pretend things are rosy; in comparison speak to anyone in a support role in any other government department or local authority. They are sh!tting themselves over pay freezes, longer hours, being TUPE'd or being sacked. Perhaps they are not being shot at (excluding, perhaps, the Greater Manchester Police) but nor is that part of their job description.
Corporately, we run this risk of compassion exhaustion in the public eye. Where has been the public outcry about the redundancies in the middle of the deepest economic recession for many decades? Yes it is tragic that guys are being killed and horribly maimed in Afghanistan, but there is a mood amongst some of the public that we Service people know that when we join and that it is one of the possible outcomes. Given how long we have been at war (for that is what it is), anyone who didn't like it could have left. Look at how Service personnel (predominantly Army) are portrayed in the media: PTSD'd up the ying-yang, abusive to partners, drunk and violent - vide recent episodes of 'Accused', 'Coronation Street', 'East Enders'... The images of (ex) soldiers attending EDL rallies. Where are the characters who are shown as kind, gentle, courageous, honest, sober..?
When genuine Service personnel are shown in the meedja, it is a part of a victim mentality of bravely overcoming multiple limb loss etc (which I do not decry) but this is how a significant percentage of the public view us. There have been exceptions, of course: the Rifleman who casually picked up a POM-Z device and threw it back; the navy medic who received the MM (the account of her 'casual' bravery made me bite my lip), our injured Chinook pilot, etc; but these are exceptions to the rule of media portrayal of service personnel.
Whether we like it or not, we have to suck up many of these cuts and should not expect much support from the wider public, who are facing similar crises in their own lives. The IO campaign to keep the role of the forces in the public eye needs to be maintained but should focus on what we do, rather than on sentimentalising victimhood.
WP
Blighter pilot
No I would not be happy if I lost CEA or similar. Having shuttled around a hell of a lot this year (moved family twice, as well) I find myself in a post where it costs me more to live and I am paid less than I was in Whitehall. Am I happy about it? No. Would I vote with my feet if allowances are cut even further? Depends on the alternatives...
My visits to Theatre are short in my current appointment, but nonetheless I do them and speak to a lot of guys and girls when I am there. I do not pretend things are rosy; in comparison speak to anyone in a support role in any other government department or local authority. They are sh!tting themselves over pay freezes, longer hours, being TUPE'd or being sacked. Perhaps they are not being shot at (excluding, perhaps, the Greater Manchester Police) but nor is that part of their job description.
Corporately, we run this risk of compassion exhaustion in the public eye. Where has been the public outcry about the redundancies in the middle of the deepest economic recession for many decades? Yes it is tragic that guys are being killed and horribly maimed in Afghanistan, but there is a mood amongst some of the public that we Service people know that when we join and that it is one of the possible outcomes. Given how long we have been at war (for that is what it is), anyone who didn't like it could have left. Look at how Service personnel (predominantly Army) are portrayed in the media: PTSD'd up the ying-yang, abusive to partners, drunk and violent - vide recent episodes of 'Accused', 'Coronation Street', 'East Enders'... The images of (ex) soldiers attending EDL rallies. Where are the characters who are shown as kind, gentle, courageous, honest, sober..?
When genuine Service personnel are shown in the meedja, it is a part of a victim mentality of bravely overcoming multiple limb loss etc (which I do not decry) but this is how a significant percentage of the public view us. There have been exceptions, of course: the Rifleman who casually picked up a POM-Z device and threw it back; the navy medic who received the MM (the account of her 'casual' bravery made me bite my lip), our injured Chinook pilot, etc; but these are exceptions to the rule of media portrayal of service personnel.
Whether we like it or not, we have to suck up many of these cuts and should not expect much support from the wider public, who are facing similar crises in their own lives. The IO campaign to keep the role of the forces in the public eye needs to be maintained but should focus on what we do, rather than on sentimentalising victimhood.
WP
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Whenurhappy
Sir, I agree with you almost 100% but there is a very subtle difference in all of the examples you give and the military, and it is this......
Every night on either national TV or on my own local Geordie TV I see interviews from very senior council officials, health trust officials, Police federation top brass........the list goes on and on and it happens every night. Without fail, they all express their concerns, fears and worries about the cuts they and their organisations are faced with. Most of them even understand that there is little or nothing that they can do, but it doesn't stop them from complaining in public and voicing their concerns.
So, my question is this:
Why have we not had a single RAF VSO stand up and make comment about what is going on with cuts to the RAF budget and our fleet of aircraft?? (same applies to the RN and Army of course)
These are the guys that you worked with up until recently, so you are probably the best placed to comment about that here. It displays contempt and a clear lack of concern and duty of care IMHO and shows that they don't have a pair of baŁŁs between them. It further enforces my view that those at the very top of the RAF are more concerned about their future appointments to the House of Lords, the board of BAes and so on.
Their lack of public condemnation or even comment is deplorable.
Sir, I agree with you almost 100% but there is a very subtle difference in all of the examples you give and the military, and it is this......
Every night on either national TV or on my own local Geordie TV I see interviews from very senior council officials, health trust officials, Police federation top brass........the list goes on and on and it happens every night. Without fail, they all express their concerns, fears and worries about the cuts they and their organisations are faced with. Most of them even understand that there is little or nothing that they can do, but it doesn't stop them from complaining in public and voicing their concerns.
So, my question is this:
Why have we not had a single RAF VSO stand up and make comment about what is going on with cuts to the RAF budget and our fleet of aircraft?? (same applies to the RN and Army of course)
These are the guys that you worked with up until recently, so you are probably the best placed to comment about that here. It displays contempt and a clear lack of concern and duty of care IMHO and shows that they don't have a pair of baŁŁs between them. It further enforces my view that those at the very top of the RAF are more concerned about their future appointments to the House of Lords, the board of BAes and so on.
Their lack of public condemnation or even comment is deplorable.
The simple answer is that media exposure of senior officers is heavily controlled by DGMC (Nick Gurr), under Ministerial direction. All public presentations given by 2* and above have to be vetted via a MINSUB. Similarly you don't see PUS of other Government Departments speaking out, either. That is left to the PPS or the Ministers responsible. Neither the Chief Executive of Loamshire County Council or the leader of Slagston Borough Council have these restrictions.
Recently a Station Commander was interviewed on TV about the impact of one particular SDSR cut and he gave, in my opinion, a cogent, sensible reply. He also got into deep poo as a result for speaking out on a Defence matter, rather than on a sS issue.
Recently a Station Commander was interviewed on TV about the impact of one particular SDSR cut and he gave, in my opinion, a cogent, sensible reply. He also got into deep poo as a result for speaking out on a Defence matter, rather than on a sS issue.
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Whenurhappy, Very many thanks for that.
So, I suppose therefore, that what we are actually saying is that the Armed Forces, the boys and girls in it, JOs, SOs and even VSOs do not have a voice?? What an absolute tragedy.
Thank God I left when I did. That is indeed a damning state of affairs.
Winco
So, I suppose therefore, that what we are actually saying is that the Armed Forces, the boys and girls in it, JOs, SOs and even VSOs do not have a voice?? What an absolute tragedy.
Thank God I left when I did. That is indeed a damning state of affairs.
Winco
I'm sure there are posts left, right and centre now. DIB 2010/95 has just been issued on the new 'rules' for CEA.
Headline points:
· The link between Involuntarily Separated Status (INVOLSEP) and automatic eligibility to CEA for permanent assignments will be removed. This will mean that CEA claimants posted to MOD London, and certain designated positions within JFHQ (PJHQ) will no longer be eligible to claim CEA whilst serving unaccompanied.[1]
· The claiming of CEA without accompanied service on the basis of historic RN regulations for previously designated seagoing billets will also cease. This will mean that, in future, Naval Service personnel permanently assigned to a previously designated seagoing billet who are ineligible for the transitional arrangements described below will be required to demonstrate their commitment to family mobility and accompanied service by moving their family home to the Base Port in order to retain continued entitlement to CEA, provided that all other eligibility criteria are met.
· Transitional arrangements have been agreed for existing CEA claimants serving unaccompanied whilst on permanent assignment to MOD London, designated positions within JFHQ (PJHQ) and Sea Service billets in Ships and Submarines, to retain the INVOLSEP concession for continued CEA eligibility until the end of their current assignment. Extant rules will then apply for subsequent appointments, therefore for the purpose of the assignment after serving INVOLSEP it will be assumed that a family move has occurred, even if the SP returns to a longstanding family home. Service personnel in possession of a permanent Assignment Order dated prior to this announcement and with a latest arrival date of prior to 1 Sep 11 to either MOD London, designated positions within JFHQ (PJHQ) and Sea Service billets in Ships and Submarines, and who intend to initially claim or to continue to claim CEA on the basis of the INVOLSEP provision, will be included in these transitional arrangements.
· The “Sibling Rule” will be removed from the CEA regulations. This will mean that in future, all children will be required to demonstrate their suitability for boarding for at least 3 terms before being allowed to transfer to day schooling, should the location of the family home permit.
· The Children’s Education Advisory Service (CEAS) will initiate a review of CEA entitlement where the claimant’s family home has not relocated during 2 consecutive assignments, rather than 3.
· Aggregation will be removed from the CEA regulations. This will mean that the ability to offset more expensive school fees against less expensive ones will be removed.
Hmm, a posting to Whitehall, with a bed-sit in Croydon or the kids going to some sink comprehensive gets my vote!
Headline points:
· The link between Involuntarily Separated Status (INVOLSEP) and automatic eligibility to CEA for permanent assignments will be removed. This will mean that CEA claimants posted to MOD London, and certain designated positions within JFHQ (PJHQ) will no longer be eligible to claim CEA whilst serving unaccompanied.[1]
· The claiming of CEA without accompanied service on the basis of historic RN regulations for previously designated seagoing billets will also cease. This will mean that, in future, Naval Service personnel permanently assigned to a previously designated seagoing billet who are ineligible for the transitional arrangements described below will be required to demonstrate their commitment to family mobility and accompanied service by moving their family home to the Base Port in order to retain continued entitlement to CEA, provided that all other eligibility criteria are met.
· Transitional arrangements have been agreed for existing CEA claimants serving unaccompanied whilst on permanent assignment to MOD London, designated positions within JFHQ (PJHQ) and Sea Service billets in Ships and Submarines, to retain the INVOLSEP concession for continued CEA eligibility until the end of their current assignment. Extant rules will then apply for subsequent appointments, therefore for the purpose of the assignment after serving INVOLSEP it will be assumed that a family move has occurred, even if the SP returns to a longstanding family home. Service personnel in possession of a permanent Assignment Order dated prior to this announcement and with a latest arrival date of prior to 1 Sep 11 to either MOD London, designated positions within JFHQ (PJHQ) and Sea Service billets in Ships and Submarines, and who intend to initially claim or to continue to claim CEA on the basis of the INVOLSEP provision, will be included in these transitional arrangements.
· The “Sibling Rule” will be removed from the CEA regulations. This will mean that in future, all children will be required to demonstrate their suitability for boarding for at least 3 terms before being allowed to transfer to day schooling, should the location of the family home permit.
· The Children’s Education Advisory Service (CEAS) will initiate a review of CEA entitlement where the claimant’s family home has not relocated during 2 consecutive assignments, rather than 3.
· Aggregation will be removed from the CEA regulations. This will mean that the ability to offset more expensive school fees against less expensive ones will be removed.
Hmm, a posting to Whitehall, with a bed-sit in Croydon or the kids going to some sink comprehensive gets my vote!
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We'll all await tomorrow's announcements with baited breath then!
It's amazing lately how the crewroom chat is all about ATPLs and civvy interview technique rather than military aviation (and certainly not banter
)
One thing's for sure though - if all those who are licensed and able walk this year (which looks like happening in my part of the world) we will find ourselves with a definite reduction in capability.
Anyone for a sweepstake on when the Elastoplast FRI comes out to try to make amends?
It's amazing lately how the crewroom chat is all about ATPLs and civvy interview technique rather than military aviation (and certainly not banter
)One thing's for sure though - if all those who are licensed and able walk this year (which looks like happening in my part of the world) we will find ourselves with a definite reduction in capability.
Anyone for a sweepstake on when the Elastoplast FRI comes out to try to make amends?
Anyone for a sweepstake on when the Elastoplast FRI comes out to try to make amends?
I think not.
Am I the only one?!
Far be it for me to disagree with you BEagle but I'd actually like to stay in! I'm not a career type but I could happily keep doing what I'm doing (flying that is) until I retire.
There are clearly many downsides (the MOD's apparent lack of loyalty being one of them!) but I don't think we can presume that everyone hates their job just because a few people are ranting on this site!
An FRI would be bloody lovely though!
BV
There are clearly many downsides (the MOD's apparent lack of loyalty being one of them!) but I don't think we can presume that everyone hates their job just because a few people are ranting on this site!
An FRI would be bloody lovely though!
BV