F-111C End of an Era
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Looks like the event there at Amberley attracted the big wigs....in the first photo, that gentleman standing there in the blue suit (hands in pockets), is the CEO of Boeing Defense Australia, the company that has been maintaining these F-111s for the last several years, under contract to the RAAF.
EW73
EW73
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Isn't it amazing they could make a jet like that in the 60s, and now all the stuffing around with the fugly, delayed, over-budget, probably under-performing JSF turkey
Shame to see such a classic type go however.
Regards,
MM
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Well, at least 82nd Wg is still a more effective strike force than Ponting's men! 
Best to all at Amberley - many happy times there as a Pommie QAIRTC cadet in the 80s.....
S41
PS, any news the disposal plan for the airframes? Hope that several of them find good homes in the Aussie museums.
Best to all at Amberley - many happy times there as a Pommie QAIRTC cadet in the 80s.....
S41
PS, any news the disposal plan for the airframes? Hope that several of them find good homes in the Aussie museums.
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Squirrel 41
"PS, any news the disposal plan for the airframes? Hope that several of them find good homes in the Aussie museums."
I read somewhere that 4 are being kept, I think 2 at Amberley, 1 at Point Cook - RAAF Museum, Victoria and 1 at RAAF Base Edinburgh, South Australia.
Edited to correct locations.
"PS, any news the disposal plan for the airframes? Hope that several of them find good homes in the Aussie museums."
I read somewhere that 4 are being kept, I think 2 at Amberley, 1 at Point Cook - RAAF Museum, Victoria and 1 at RAAF Base Edinburgh, South Australia.
Edited to correct locations.
MM quote: Err...and of course the F-111 was such a fine exemple of effective procurement, project management and financial awareness back in the 60s wasn't it BBadanov?!!!
Err...Yes MM - a lot better than today. It was ordered in 1963, and the first Aussie crews flew it in US in 1968 to then ferry them home. Then wing carry-through boxes delayed acceptance until 1973. In those days Air Force was a separate ministry and looked after its own procurement and it worked well, Mirage being another example of that era. Despite delays with the F-111, it served us as a fantastic deterrant from 1973 until 2010.
Today, staffing projects through 1st and 2nd passes, and DMO project management, takes many, many years of delayed procurement, quite often delivering something which is inferior. AIR 87 is the classic. The best way to achieve a quick procurement these days is a straight FMS project of MOTS equipment with none of our "orphan" modifications.
JSF - when did we pick it, and send Eurofighter and other options scurrying - 2001? When will we take delivery? 2019?
Err...Yes MM - a lot better than today. It was ordered in 1963, and the first Aussie crews flew it in US in 1968 to then ferry them home. Then wing carry-through boxes delayed acceptance until 1973. In those days Air Force was a separate ministry and looked after its own procurement and it worked well, Mirage being another example of that era. Despite delays with the F-111, it served us as a fantastic deterrant from 1973 until 2010.
Today, staffing projects through 1st and 2nd passes, and DMO project management, takes many, many years of delayed procurement, quite often delivering something which is inferior. AIR 87 is the classic. The best way to achieve a quick procurement these days is a straight FMS project of MOTS equipment with none of our "orphan" modifications.
JSF - when did we pick it, and send Eurofighter and other options scurrying - 2001? When will we take delivery? 2019?
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BBadanov
If it's Tiffies that you want, let us know how soon you can get over here to collect them - they're likely to be plentiful shortly at the rate that things are currently going.
500N - thanks, good to hear. Bit surprised that Caloundra et al are not on the list.
And as for the cricket....?
S41
If it's Tiffies that you want, let us know how soon you can get over here to collect them - they're likely to be plentiful shortly at the rate that things are currently going.
500N - thanks, good to hear. Bit surprised that Caloundra et al are not on the list.
And as for the cricket....?
S41
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"500N - thanks, good to hear. Bit surprised that Caloundra et al are not on the list."
I can understand the 4 locations but am not Ex RAAF so not sure on Caloundra. Personally, I can't see why more couldn't have been kept unless it is just that expensive to set them up. What about Richmond ?
"And as for the cricket....?"
Yes, well, the less said the better but we had our time in the sun and I don't think have done enough forward planning once the retirements came.
I can understand the 4 locations but am not Ex RAAF so not sure on Caloundra. Personally, I can't see why more couldn't have been kept unless it is just that expensive to set them up. What about Richmond ?
"And as for the cricket....?"
Yes, well, the less said the better but we had our time in the sun and I don't think have done enough forward planning once the retirements came.
S41 quote: If it's Tiffies that you want, let us know how soon you can get over here to collect them - they're likely to be plentiful shortly at the rate that things are currently going.
Hey S41, no never wanted Tiffies, even if they did morph to a Tranche 3. And am very sorry to hear what's happening to the RAF at the moment.
Hey S41, no never wanted Tiffies, even if they did morph to a Tranche 3. And am very sorry to hear what's happening to the RAF at the moment.
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ftrplt
Well it's good to see the Gov't has found the $ to do 4 of them,
even if one of them won't be on a stick.
Why do they have to be on a stick ? Can't they be parked on a concrete slab ?
Anyway, 4 is better than none.
I read somewhere before that keeping them for display had something to do with US laws as well and that caused problems with others - F/A 18 ?
Well it's good to see the Gov't has found the $ to do 4 of them,
even if one of them won't be on a stick.
Why do they have to be on a stick ? Can't they be parked on a concrete slab ?
Anyway, 4 is better than none.
I read somewhere before that keeping them for display had something to do with US laws as well and that caused problems with others - F/A 18 ?
Only one on a stick, I think, the one for ARDU. And yes, US regulations for the airframes and TF30 engines are very strict.
I believe the following is the disposal plan:
A8-125, first RAAF F-111C, for RAAF Museum Point Cook (which already has an F-111G).
A8-126, first RAAF F-111C to fly with Aussie crew, and RF-111C protoype, for RAAF Heritage Centre Amberley.
A8-132, AUP prototype and ARDU test vehicle, for ARDU at RAAF Edinburgh.
A8-138, Pave Tack prototype, gate guard at RAAF Amberley with Canberra A84-201.
A static aircraft at the farewell was A8-113, an ex-USAF F-111A, which as 67-0113 flew the last F-111 combat mission in southeast Asia. I heard that this had been offered to the USAF Museum, but they already had an F-111E.
I believe the following is the disposal plan:
A8-125, first RAAF F-111C, for RAAF Museum Point Cook (which already has an F-111G).
A8-126, first RAAF F-111C to fly with Aussie crew, and RF-111C protoype, for RAAF Heritage Centre Amberley.
A8-132, AUP prototype and ARDU test vehicle, for ARDU at RAAF Edinburgh.
A8-138, Pave Tack prototype, gate guard at RAAF Amberley with Canberra A84-201.
A static aircraft at the farewell was A8-113, an ex-USAF F-111A, which as 67-0113 flew the last F-111 combat mission in southeast Asia. I heard that this had been offered to the USAF Museum, but they already had an F-111E.
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Err...Yes MM - a lot better than today. It was ordered in 1963, and the first Aussie crews flew it in US in 1968 to then ferry them home. Then wing carry-through boxes delayed acceptance until 1973. In those days Air Force was a separate ministry and looked after its own procurement and it worked well, Mirage being another example of that era. Despite delays with the F-111, it served us as a fantastic deterrant from 1973 until 2010.
Even then however, there are remarkable parallels with F-35. Due to the F-111 developmental problems you mention, the RAAF was forced to borrow a capable and versatile off the shelf US type (F-4E, which many advocated keeping in place of the F-111!) until your Gucci new F-111s could be delivered. I don’t think you got your first jets back to Oz until 1973 but am happy to be corrected.
Remember also that once the USN F-111B was cancelled, the Aardvark was also a single service, single role type. In comparison, F-35 is designed to meet the needs of 3 x US services as well as the RAF and RN whilst trying to maintain its selling point as an F-16 replacement to dozens of other nations.
I must admit however, I’ve never really followed the RAAF decision to commit 100% of your combat air capability to F-35 so early in its gestation.
Anyway, look on the bright side: at least by ending all the dump and burn party stuff, you’ll stand more chance of avoiding global warming and allowing rain clouds to form over Adelaide!
Regards,
MM
Hi MM
Yes, development of the platform and unfortunately (and we take the hit here) the procurement process takes on a lifeform of its own and grows to an unacceptable level. We are small, we should not buy orphan equipment, we need to buy stuff when it is MOTS. The C-17 was another good example of expedited procurement.
F-111 - yes I said acceptance in 1973, with the first 6 jets arriving at Amberley on 1 Jun 1973, hence the 37 years of service. They then arrived in flights of 6 at about monthly intervals - in time to then overfly the opening of the Opera House later that year!
Re single-service, I would make the point that although USN (F-111B) and RAF (F-111K) pulled out (let's start a new thread, hehe), that there were then 3 customers - USAF TAC (F-111A, etal), SAC (FB-111) and RAAF (F-111C). Don't underestimate the difference between TAC and SAC - they were two distinct missions and modes of operating - not "single-role". The RAAF then went on developing unique roles for the aircraft - RF-111C recce, and maritime attack with AGM-84, later AGM-142 - which were not picked up by the USAF.
Re Dump & Burns, c'mon, the Pig is (was) a very environmentallly-friendly jet being able to burn the fuel it dumps. No worries.
Now MM, stop wasting your time here, your presence is required immediately on the Mrs Bloggs 'At Home' Etiquette/Protocols thread !!
Yes, development of the platform and unfortunately (and we take the hit here) the procurement process takes on a lifeform of its own and grows to an unacceptable level. We are small, we should not buy orphan equipment, we need to buy stuff when it is MOTS. The C-17 was another good example of expedited procurement.
F-111 - yes I said acceptance in 1973, with the first 6 jets arriving at Amberley on 1 Jun 1973, hence the 37 years of service. They then arrived in flights of 6 at about monthly intervals - in time to then overfly the opening of the Opera House later that year!
Re single-service, I would make the point that although USN (F-111B) and RAF (F-111K) pulled out (let's start a new thread, hehe), that there were then 3 customers - USAF TAC (F-111A, etal), SAC (FB-111) and RAAF (F-111C). Don't underestimate the difference between TAC and SAC - they were two distinct missions and modes of operating - not "single-role". The RAAF then went on developing unique roles for the aircraft - RF-111C recce, and maritime attack with AGM-84, later AGM-142 - which were not picked up by the USAF.
Re Dump & Burns, c'mon, the Pig is (was) a very environmentallly-friendly jet being able to burn the fuel it dumps. No worries.
Now MM, stop wasting your time here, your presence is required immediately on the Mrs Bloggs 'At Home' Etiquette/Protocols thread !!
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Update on F111C disposal
Update on the F111C disposal from the latest Airforce News
MANY people will be pleased to learn that not all the F-111Cs will go into storage sheds and scrap yards after their retirement. Four of the aircraft are destined to become permanent displays at locations around Australia.
One aircraft will be placed on display at RAAF Base Edinburgh, two at RAAF Base Amberley and one at the RAAF Museum at
RAAF Base Point Cook. The ADF is planning to have the four aircraft on display during 2011.
Of the remainder of the fleet, another three will be retained within Defence to
preserve military heritage, in particular for Air Force units that have flown or supported the F-111C.
Another four will be disposed through destruction as investigations have determined that they are unsuitable for demilitarisation or for display purposes. The remaining aircraft are then to be offered for general sale by tender for other groups or organisations to use as static displays. Any such group will be required to agree to pay the costs to make the aircraft
inoperable (estimated to be in excess of $1 million) so as to meet US Government approvals to transfer them from Defence, as well as the costs to remove asbestos from the aircraft and to restore them to displayable condition (estimated at up to $1.5 million) before approval is given.
All G models will be destroyed.
MANY people will be pleased to learn that not all the F-111Cs will go into storage sheds and scrap yards after their retirement. Four of the aircraft are destined to become permanent displays at locations around Australia.
One aircraft will be placed on display at RAAF Base Edinburgh, two at RAAF Base Amberley and one at the RAAF Museum at
RAAF Base Point Cook. The ADF is planning to have the four aircraft on display during 2011.
Of the remainder of the fleet, another three will be retained within Defence to
preserve military heritage, in particular for Air Force units that have flown or supported the F-111C.
Another four will be disposed through destruction as investigations have determined that they are unsuitable for demilitarisation or for display purposes. The remaining aircraft are then to be offered for general sale by tender for other groups or organisations to use as static displays. Any such group will be required to agree to pay the costs to make the aircraft
inoperable (estimated to be in excess of $1 million) so as to meet US Government approvals to transfer them from Defence, as well as the costs to remove asbestos from the aircraft and to restore them to displayable condition (estimated at up to $1.5 million) before approval is given.
All G models will be destroyed.
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I happened to be up at the time they were doing their farewell run and it was humbleing to hear Brisbane centre calling low jet traffic F-111 aircraft "Buckshot whiskey 55" I think was his callsign. I thought I will never hear that again.
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GAFA
Thanks for the update. That's good to hear. So at least 7 being kept.
I wonder if anyone will stump up the $ to buy one.
.
Thanks for the update. That's good to hear. So at least 7 being kept.
I wonder if anyone will stump up the $ to buy one.
.
I have been told the three "reserves" are the following:
A8-142, first production AUP.
A8-148, last RAAF F-111C.
A8-113, ex-USAF F-111A 67-0113, flew the last F-111 combat mission in SE Asia, might go to US but the USAFM at WPAFB already have an F-111.
I believe the Ipswich Council wanted one, but whether they are prepared to pay the $$ is another thing. Anyway, apart from explosive items, asbestos or other nasties, the TF30 engines would probably be removed.
A8-142, first production AUP.
A8-148, last RAAF F-111C.
A8-113, ex-USAF F-111A 67-0113, flew the last F-111 combat mission in SE Asia, might go to US but the USAFM at WPAFB already have an F-111.
I believe the Ipswich Council wanted one, but whether they are prepared to pay the $$ is another thing. Anyway, apart from explosive items, asbestos or other nasties, the TF30 engines would probably be removed.
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No mention yet of the escape modules that were used at airshows or the sim. Anyone know if they could remove the escape modules from the 'Gs' and sell them. I'm sure if the museums and collectors can't get a complete aircraft the modules would be a great second prize.