MFTS - 'Getting Sticky'
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: arrrrrrrgh
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Oh dear. Now there is the bitter rant of a man who didn't get the rotary crewman job at ascent paying nearly 50k recently. I am sure something will turn up soon minidumb, you just need to keep stacking those shelves a little longer.
Really Annoyed
Ascent should have a capital letter and you should have capital punishment.
Are you a spin doctor? I do believe that you are being a tad economical with the truth pal!
Isn't what you've said about MGD tantamount to revealing his or her identity? I believe that is against the rules, you nob.
Are you a spin doctor? I do believe that you are being a tad economical with the truth pal!
Isn't what you've said about MGD tantamount to revealing his or her identity? I believe that is against the rules, you nob.
Last edited by xenolith; 23rd Jul 2011 at 10:41.
Xenolith,
Too be fair, RA is just fishing for a bite. It's easier than getting involved in a debate that he doesn't really understand - but that's what bangs his drum.
You are right though, and getting back to the subject of MFTS, his use of the word 'nearly' is creative, and he is so far wide of the mark he could have added 100k after it and been 'nearly' as accurate. That's why when I stopped laughing, I 'nearly' applied.
They are relying heavily on people supplementing poor pay with their pensions, and so will attract either those with little motivation to knock out a good product, or those whom are a very long way from the front-line. I am therefore not completely overwhelmed with surprise that the whole MFTS, and rotary in particular is in danger of ending up a cake and @rse party.
I'm sure there will be a few good blokes, but the chances of them overcoming the inertia of a 'cheapest bid' project, where most of the funding ends up on the balance sheets of the larger corporate stakeholders, is fairly remote.
Too be fair, RA is just fishing for a bite. It's easier than getting involved in a debate that he doesn't really understand - but that's what bangs his drum.
You are right though, and getting back to the subject of MFTS, his use of the word 'nearly' is creative, and he is so far wide of the mark he could have added 100k after it and been 'nearly' as accurate. That's why when I stopped laughing, I 'nearly' applied.
They are relying heavily on people supplementing poor pay with their pensions, and so will attract either those with little motivation to knock out a good product, or those whom are a very long way from the front-line. I am therefore not completely overwhelmed with surprise that the whole MFTS, and rotary in particular is in danger of ending up a cake and @rse party.
I'm sure there will be a few good blokes, but the chances of them overcoming the inertia of a 'cheapest bid' project, where most of the funding ends up on the balance sheets of the larger corporate stakeholders, is fairly remote.
Last edited by minigundiplomat; 23rd Jul 2011 at 10:53.
They are relying heavily on people supplementing poor pay with their pensions, and so will attract either those with little motivation to knock out a good product, or those whom are a very long way from the front-line.
If it all turns to a complete cake and ar$e party, I will make an exception to my normal code and wallow in schadenfreude. MFTS really is a complete and utter load of bolleaux - as any experienced QFI could have told the MoD, had they asked....
The sage advice has always been to give a very wide berth indeed to any company which attempts such a strategy! Their pay and T&S must be as least as good as on offer from any other organisation. If they think that 'topping up' a military pension with low pay is acceptable, then people need to disabuse them of that idea PDQ!
I'm with Beags and MGD on this one - any organsiation that has a personnel strategy based on those principles deserves to fail.
Melchett et al - not uncommon in the civvie world - get someone retiring with a Service pension and pay them a lower than market rate salary - called "economics"
If you asked a builder to project manage the building of your house, how would you feel if he pocketed 50% and then said 'we can't actually get any tradesmen, but Ive got all the materials for you'? or 'A qualified electrician was too expensive, so I've employed the milkman to do the wiring and electrics?
I agree, anyone bidding on a project has to be competitive, but they also have to deliver.
Coffee Mate?
I was in the crewroom when the incident mentioned happened. It was a Group Captain and a very pleasant Flt Flt QFI, they had done the weather ship and the crewroom was full of instructors and students hanging on every word to know whether they would be flying...the absolute embarrassment of said GC when he realised his misunderstanding of the 'Coffee Mate? situation was almost as painful for us to watch as it was for him as the realisation dawned..Scampton, CFS crewroom 1986.....
Join Date: Jun 2005
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Am I the only one to hear the rumour that all is not well within MFTS?
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Elbit-KBR Team Tapped for UK Trainer Competition
LONDON — Three fixed-wing aircraft types — including the Beechcraft T-6C — are set to train British military pilots following the selection of a team involving Elbit Systems and KBR to supply and support the platforms, according to executives familiar with the competition.
The executives said the team, known as Affinity, has emerged as the winning bidder and has been selected for further negotiations by Ascent, the Lockheed Martin-Babcock partnership running a 30-year deal with the British Defence Ministry, to manage pilot and crew training for the armed forces. Ascent referred questions to the MoD. Ministry officials were unable to respond at press time. The Affinity consortium members also declined to comment.
The Affinity bid included Beechcraft’s T-6C turboprop basic trainer, a modified Embraer Phenom 100 light business jet for multi-enginetraining and the Grob 120TP elementary trainer, executives said. Under the 15-year availability deal, Affinity will provide and support the fixed-wing flying training element of the UK Military Flying Training System (MFTS) program. The contract is expected to be worth more than £500 million (US $795 million) to Affinity. It is not clear whether the decision has to be ratified by the MoD and others in government.
Contract signature is scheduled to take place by 2015, assuming Affinity and Ascent successfully conclude negotiations. If Affinity sticks to the timescale laid out by Ascent, introduction of the new aircraft types could get underway in 2017 with the Grob 120TP, followed a year later by the Phenom 100 and then the T-6C.............
LONDON — Three fixed-wing aircraft types — including the Beechcraft T-6C — are set to train British military pilots following the selection of a team involving Elbit Systems and KBR to supply and support the platforms, according to executives familiar with the competition.
The executives said the team, known as Affinity, has emerged as the winning bidder and has been selected for further negotiations by Ascent, the Lockheed Martin-Babcock partnership running a 30-year deal with the British Defence Ministry, to manage pilot and crew training for the armed forces. Ascent referred questions to the MoD. Ministry officials were unable to respond at press time. The Affinity consortium members also declined to comment.
The Affinity bid included Beechcraft’s T-6C turboprop basic trainer, a modified Embraer Phenom 100 light business jet for multi-enginetraining and the Grob 120TP elementary trainer, executives said. Under the 15-year availability deal, Affinity will provide and support the fixed-wing flying training element of the UK Military Flying Training System (MFTS) program. The contract is expected to be worth more than £500 million (US $795 million) to Affinity. It is not clear whether the decision has to be ratified by the MoD and others in government.
Contract signature is scheduled to take place by 2015, assuming Affinity and Ascent successfully conclude negotiations. If Affinity sticks to the timescale laid out by Ascent, introduction of the new aircraft types could get underway in 2017 with the Grob 120TP, followed a year later by the Phenom 100 and then the T-6C.............
Thread Starter
I thought the entire Ascent programme for the provision of the MFTS was about to go down the pan? Hard to understand as the mil have provided/carred out most of the hard work in course construction, all they need to do is provide the jets.........
Thread Starter
So BV, what have they actually provided.......? My understanding is that we own the T2, the DHFS contract has been extended because it was TFD to sort out, and nearly 3 years after the Dominie's last flight the system is no closer to undertaking any of the initial rear crew trg.
Ultimately, without the mil effort to fill the knowledge gaps that Ascent have/had the whole programme would have ground to a halt years ago. You have to ask what company would let a contract then provide all the SMEs to do the work?
It would be interesting to read the NAO report on what vfm this whole debacle has provided the tax payer?
Ultimately, without the mil effort to fill the knowledge gaps that Ascent have/had the whole programme would have ground to a halt years ago. You have to ask what company would let a contract then provide all the SMEs to do the work?
It would be interesting to read the NAO report on what vfm this whole debacle has provided the tax payer?
CBTL
I'm afraid I know too many of the people involved on both sides of the fence to discuss it on an open forum. They will recognise my pprune name as well. I value my future employment opportunities too much to fall into that trap!
I only have personal experience of the T2 portion so can't speak with auhtority on the programme as a whole.
I guess we should just wait and see what happens.
BV
I only have personal experience of the T2 portion so can't speak with auhtority on the programme as a whole.
I guess we should just wait and see what happens.
BV
introduction of the new aircraft types could get underway in 2017 with the Grob 120TP, followed a year later by the Phenom 100 and then the T-6C.............
If we do get all of these I have only one major hope - that they will all be on the military register from the start and that we don't recreate the fiasco of the G115s and King Airs by having them on the civil register.