Bye Bye CEA.
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CEA will not go as it will hit the Army hardest with their current trend towards moving every 2 -3 years. (I believe CGS has played the red card here)
Lye closes in 18 months so everyone there will be moving to Brize, Waddo and various other UK and overseas postings - so does that mean they can now 'legally' claim CEA
In my mind if you elect to live in in your own house then that is your choice - why should you get Home To Duty to pay you to come in to your place of work? You chose to live in private accommodation.
You can argue pros and cons for all sorts of allowances - the figures banded around for CEA are nowhere near the mark - not everyone claims the full amount and I bet it's nowhere near the total paid for HTD.
Service personnel make lifestyle choices for their families - some elect stability of education whilst moving every 2-3 years, some live in their own house and put down roots whilst commuting and maybe getting HTD - who can discriminate?
If we are not careful we will lose all sorts of allowances - don't forget many are paid to other public sector employees.
Lye closes in 18 months so everyone there will be moving to Brize, Waddo and various other UK and overseas postings - so does that mean they can now 'legally' claim CEA
In my mind if you elect to live in in your own house then that is your choice - why should you get Home To Duty to pay you to come in to your place of work? You chose to live in private accommodation.
You can argue pros and cons for all sorts of allowances - the figures banded around for CEA are nowhere near the mark - not everyone claims the full amount and I bet it's nowhere near the total paid for HTD.
Service personnel make lifestyle choices for their families - some elect stability of education whilst moving every 2-3 years, some live in their own house and put down roots whilst commuting and maybe getting HTD - who can discriminate?
If we are not careful we will lose all sorts of allowances - don't forget many are paid to other public sector employees.
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In my mind if you elect to live in in your own house then that is your choice - why should you get Home To Duty to pay you to come in to your place of work? You chose to live in private accommodation.
Moving everyone to Brize from Lyneham is a housing nightmare. It's just as well they are only a short hop from each other because there is not enough SFQs as it is. People will just have to get used to the Chippenham/Calne/Wooty B commute to Oxfordshire.
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Ken Scott - well said. The certification process for CEA now clearly requires your career manager/desk officer etc to state "it is likely" you will move in the next 4 years. In that case, CEA seems a sensible insurance policy for your children's education, especially where GCSEs/A Levels are involved.
I am also rather surprised at the vehemence of many of the arguments against CEA in this thread. It is open to everyone but not something everyone would choose to do. Undoubtedly there are those that may have played the system over the years, but tighter regulation is about to put a stop to that. As for those of us who legitimately claim and move when required, please stop trying to paint us as some sort of benefit junkies. After over 20 years at sea, I for one would quite like to see my wife every night and give my kids the best possible shout at good exam results through guaranteed educational stability.
I am also rather surprised at the vehemence of many of the arguments against CEA in this thread. It is open to everyone but not something everyone would choose to do. Undoubtedly there are those that may have played the system over the years, but tighter regulation is about to put a stop to that. As for those of us who legitimately claim and move when required, please stop trying to paint us as some sort of benefit junkies. After over 20 years at sea, I for one would quite like to see my wife every night and give my kids the best possible shout at good exam results through guaranteed educational stability.
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Blighter,
your arguments regarding location....
Would be great if there was actually any surplus accommodation for people to move from Lyneham to Brize to; instead of splitting the base accommodation between Faringdon, Fairford, South Cerney and whatever rabbit hutches the construct at Brize.
To make matters worse, DHE have 2 major problems next year. They have a full battalion moving to South Cerney next year, so all there will be full.There is also discussion going on at the moment about how much accommodation they are going to take up at Lyneham...
As to living in the local area, have you seen house prices in Oxford? I can barely afford to buy a decent 3 bed semi on middle rate flying pay and if you think my kids are going to be educated in an area that hasnt the additional funding to cope with an estimated 500+ families moving from lyneham, you have another thing coming. Closest affordable place I found within commuting distance of Brize was 40 miles away! Thanks to the boomer generation for that one...
Believe me, HTD (in its current reduced form) saves the MOD money... if I couldnt get paid to commute, I would either expect a room in the mess (which Brize doesnt have) or a quarter (which brize doesnt have). You might want to compare SSFA costs to HTD costs, especially considering the supply/demand issues they have in the oxford area.
your arguments regarding location....
Would be great if there was actually any surplus accommodation for people to move from Lyneham to Brize to; instead of splitting the base accommodation between Faringdon, Fairford, South Cerney and whatever rabbit hutches the construct at Brize.
To make matters worse, DHE have 2 major problems next year. They have a full battalion moving to South Cerney next year, so all there will be full.There is also discussion going on at the moment about how much accommodation they are going to take up at Lyneham...
As to living in the local area, have you seen house prices in Oxford? I can barely afford to buy a decent 3 bed semi on middle rate flying pay and if you think my kids are going to be educated in an area that hasnt the additional funding to cope with an estimated 500+ families moving from lyneham, you have another thing coming. Closest affordable place I found within commuting distance of Brize was 40 miles away!
Thanks to the boomer generation for that one...Believe me, HTD (in its current reduced form) saves the MOD money... if I couldnt get paid to commute, I would either expect a room in the mess (which Brize doesnt have) or a quarter (which brize doesnt have). You might want to compare SSFA costs to HTD costs, especially considering the supply/demand issues they have in the oxford area.
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I have no idea how long you have been at Lye but if you have been there for years and have used the CEA system to put your kids through private education then to the my very simple mind you have knowingly and willfully committed fraud.
Knowingly and willfully committed fraud? That would imply I knew I wasn't going to move, which I didn't. If I'd used the state system & then had to move my family because I was posted then I'm sure I would have, with hindsight, regretted not taking up CEA.
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Ken Scott, maybe my words came out a little harsh (never a good idea to drink and type), but my feelings remain the same - if you knowingly collect CEA with no intention of moving you are morally wrong at least. I feel strongly about it because somebody I know claims CEA just to put his two sons through public school - he hasn't moved in his last three tours and would run screaming if he was posted away. Unfortunately, the system allows him and his upwardly-mobile wife to educate their two effectively at my expense.
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Agreed, the allowance is there to support mobility and not the social kind. All who sign up to mobility to get CEA cannot complain when they're posted. I cannot see the services becoming so static in the future that there will no longer be a requirement for CEA, people will always need to move about. Whether CEA remains is a different matter.
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Little Johnny reaches secondary school age, he goes to the local comp and starts preparing for GCSEs.
The chap is posted to Vegas,
They both have choices:
1. Take the whole brood out there - Johnny's exam results may take a hit in a US private school, but they are happy enough as a family.
3. packs Johnny off to a decent minor private boarding school, which they can just about afford with chap's LOA.
QED, Is there any essential requirement for a public-funded private boarding school place in the UK?
The chap is posted to Vegas,
They both have choices:
1. Take the whole brood out there - Johnny's exam results may take a hit in a US private school, but they are happy enough as a family.
3. packs Johnny off to a decent minor private boarding school, which they can just about afford with chap's LOA.
QED, Is there any essential requirement for a public-funded private boarding school place in the UK?
Rather it should be the probability but in the past was the slight possibility which is a huge difference. It should be possible to look at Mr Johnny's career plot and freeze his posting for the 2-3 years of the education phase or even bring a posting forward so that Johnny can start his education in a new school.
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To support Ken, I was posted to a holding post for the Nimrod AEW3. It was unlikely that I would remain at my post for more than a year or so so Dau no 1who was approaching her 11+ and had moved from Scotland and therefore not likely to get a grammar school place was put in to a boarding school. Dau 2 followed a year later.
Then the Nimrod was cancelled and I was posted but as it happens it was in commuting distance - 114 miles per day. We stayed put and continued to get CEA for Dau 1. Dau 2 however won a place at the age of 13 to the local grammar and we ceased claiming CEA for her. We took a calculated risk that I would not be posted to 'Vegas' or some other highly desirable location. Dau 1 however continued to benefit from CEA as she had started her A-level course.
My commute posting could have been to somewhere else entirely such as Lyneham and we would have moved benefited from the CEA.
There really are many permutations. I mentioned above the possibility of screening postings for the education stage. What would happen is P-staff said that a posting was not probable and then you got a posting?
Then the Nimrod was cancelled and I was posted but as it happens it was in commuting distance - 114 miles per day. We stayed put and continued to get CEA for Dau 1. Dau 2 however won a place at the age of 13 to the local grammar and we ceased claiming CEA for her. We took a calculated risk that I would not be posted to 'Vegas' or some other highly desirable location. Dau 1 however continued to benefit from CEA as she had started her A-level course.
My commute posting could have been to somewhere else entirely such as Lyneham and we would have moved benefited from the CEA.
There really are many permutations. I mentioned above the possibility of screening postings for the education stage. What would happen is P-staff said that a posting was not probable and then you got a posting?
It should be possible to look at Mr Johnny's career plot and freeze his posting for the 2-3 years of the education phase or even bring a posting forward so that Johnny can start his education in a new school.
Sprog status should be immaterial when postings are considered - CEA should compensate accordingly.
Also bolleaux because....
The RAF is incapable of running "career plots" for the average johnny now, let alone trying to do so after intoducing complications about children's ages...
The RAF is incapable of running "career plots" for the average johnny now, let alone trying to do so after intoducing complications about children's ages...
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BEagle you normally write reasonably sensible posts, but to state that 'There'd just be even more tactical brat-breeders planning their next spawn around plum postings' is just such utter hoop. Quite rediculous. 
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Beags, I believe that personal circumstances should be material to posting priorities, but I would agree that they should not necessarily disadvantage others' needs, including those of singlies. CEA is (increasingly) not for everyone (perhaps more so later this week!) and we should consider all needs wherever possible.
I was as annoyed as anyone else at those orderly officer and QRA rosters that seemed to have feature a preponderance of the latter at the least popular times...
I was as annoyed as anyone else at those orderly officer and QRA rosters that seemed to have feature a preponderance of the latter at the least popular times...
Jumping Jack, unfortunately I've seen this happen. Three pilots due for posting from the squadron, with CFS a distinct possibility. One wasn't good enough, so was posted to Dominies. Of the other two, one suddenly announced that his wife was expecting and said that the disturbance of a CFS course and an unknown subsequent posting would cause huge problems.... So the singly was joe'd - but we all knew that the other pilot had planned things quite deliberately.... It does happen.
Still, a different RAF now - my best wishes and good luck to all those remaining after the forthcoming announcements.
Still, a different RAF now - my best wishes and good luck to all those remaining after the forthcoming announcements.
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The present post would be frozen or the person posted to a stability post and on the balance some would be at RAF Sh1te as well as RAF The Bizz N.
You might be at a unit you don't like, say a Welsh holiday island, and expecting a posting to Herriot's land. Brat 1 is coming up to a key educational point so you apply for CEA. The options are:
1. Expedite posting to Herriot Land and freeze for 2-3 years or
2. Extend posting on Welsh holiday island for 2-3 years.
In both case CEA is not admissible. If you happen to be at RAF The Bizz but your posting plot suggests a staff tour at RAF Rustication in a year you might suddenly find you are offered an immediate posting.
Cuts both ways and indeed can be a powerful adminstrative tool. I know an ex-VC10 sqn ldr (flt lt) who tried to get a posting to Brize; 10 didn't want him so he was offered Andovers instead. He rejected the posting because he could not afford to buy a house there and his wife was earning more than him at Retford. To my surprise his poster did not post him; they closed the station instead
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JJ, or indeed a mirrad of other excuses - the wife needs to attend hospital (as she is a fat b*st*rd) and the one at the new unit is too far and the schools . . .
We fixed both - Aberdeen centre of excellence and Scottish schools the bees knees - as we wanted shot of the guy and promotion and posting was the only way
'The wife's job' is another good excuse.
'The kids special needs' is another.
But that is all thread drift away from CEA.
We fixed both - Aberdeen centre of excellence and Scottish schools the bees knees - as we wanted shot of the guy and promotion and posting was the only way
'The wife's job' is another good excuse.
'The kids special needs' is another.
But that is all thread drift away from CEA.
CEA - the Arguments Don't Stack Up
I am at a remote overseas posting and there are no local English-language schools for our son. We knew that when I was told about the prospect of moving here. Accordingly our son remains at a minor Public School in England and we spend a shed-load to get him here for half-terms etc. There was not an option...or is there? Arguably the appointment could be filtered to remove those with school age children, thus saving the Department about GBP 20,000 a year (and me a lot, to boot). Some diplomatic posts are already screened because of environmental and security conditions. My previous 2 tours were in London (married unaccompanied) so we made use of CEA rather than move to London and fight to get son into a decent school. Although it was a difficult decision to send him boarding, it is a decision we would not have begun to consider without the availability of CEA. In sum, and inasmuch as I would like to defend CEA, I feel that its days are numbered for the majority of applicants. Whatever we feel about its utility, the vast majority of the great unwashed and much of the Civil Service see it as unnecessary, socially divisive and anachronistic.
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OTOH as you were liable to an overseas posting, as happened, then you correctly applied for and were awarded CEA.
That you were married unaccompanied in London would therefore be an irrelevance.
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Whenurhappy,
I do agree totally if we in the Services could guarantee that our desk officer would consider our mobility with consideration for our children's stability and education without effecting our careers.
If the RAF and the MoD continue to want me to move anywhere at the drop of a hat, without question (which my friend is happening every day across all 3 services and your nirvana of finely tuned and refined postings for families is a lovely aspiration, but not reality based upon my and many's experiences) then I want to know that my children have a stable and seamless education, with social connections that do not move every 2-3 years (and less at times). If it does not want that flexibility, and I will not be career disadvantaged by electing to stay in one location once I have a a family, then I am content with that. Let me be in no doubt, if I could see my child (ren) every night when not on ops/ex and still deliver the RAF what it wants from me as a flexible resource, then I would happily remove my child (ren) from the CEA system.
But it has not and cannot guarantee this and if anything has used CEA as an HR tool to ensure that I do move when required by the RAF to fill positions that are either unpopular or appear at short notice.
On the other side of the coin, you are assuming that the desk officer can call upon a pool of childless (or those willing to weekly/bi-monthly commute) service personnel to move around as required to fulfill the postings that I/we family serving personnel may be told that we no longer need to fulfil. Lets not forget that some of these positions require certain, specialised or experienced personnel that are not always readily available to the desk officers.
And lets not also forget, do you think that the local schools of Odiham, Lyneham, Brize, wherever could cope with a sudden influx of service personnel after their parents suddenly were told that CEA was no more and to put their roots into the 'most likely' station for the next 10-15 years - and that is without the CSR also affecting the future education budget.
My solution is very simple - keep CEA, and all of the HR and service flexibility that delivers to desk officers to get the right person in the right job in the interests of the service. However, I would ensure (as now appears to be case) that the whole CEA mobility certificate is rigorously enforced as there are those that are genuinely mobile and sacrifice seeing their kids every night to ensure that the interests of the service are met. there are others that are undoubtedly in the grey area of 'may be posted' within 3-4 years, but as we all recognise there are a number of people that have absolutely no intent of leaving their 'base' station and have demonstrated absolutely no intent to move. These people should either be 'press to test' to confirm or deny their intentions or removed from the CEA register.
That to me is the fairest way - your thoughts?
I do agree totally if we in the Services could guarantee that our desk officer would consider our mobility with consideration for our children's stability and education without effecting our careers.
If the RAF and the MoD continue to want me to move anywhere at the drop of a hat, without question (which my friend is happening every day across all 3 services and your nirvana of finely tuned and refined postings for families is a lovely aspiration, but not reality based upon my and many's experiences) then I want to know that my children have a stable and seamless education, with social connections that do not move every 2-3 years (and less at times). If it does not want that flexibility, and I will not be career disadvantaged by electing to stay in one location once I have a a family, then I am content with that. Let me be in no doubt, if I could see my child (ren) every night when not on ops/ex and still deliver the RAF what it wants from me as a flexible resource, then I would happily remove my child (ren) from the CEA system.
But it has not and cannot guarantee this and if anything has used CEA as an HR tool to ensure that I do move when required by the RAF to fill positions that are either unpopular or appear at short notice.
On the other side of the coin, you are assuming that the desk officer can call upon a pool of childless (or those willing to weekly/bi-monthly commute) service personnel to move around as required to fulfill the postings that I/we family serving personnel may be told that we no longer need to fulfil. Lets not forget that some of these positions require certain, specialised or experienced personnel that are not always readily available to the desk officers.
And lets not also forget, do you think that the local schools of Odiham, Lyneham, Brize, wherever could cope with a sudden influx of service personnel after their parents suddenly were told that CEA was no more and to put their roots into the 'most likely' station for the next 10-15 years - and that is without the CSR also affecting the future education budget.
My solution is very simple - keep CEA, and all of the HR and service flexibility that delivers to desk officers to get the right person in the right job in the interests of the service. However, I would ensure (as now appears to be case) that the whole CEA mobility certificate is rigorously enforced as there are those that are genuinely mobile and sacrifice seeing their kids every night to ensure that the interests of the service are met. there are others that are undoubtedly in the grey area of 'may be posted' within 3-4 years, but as we all recognise there are a number of people that have absolutely no intent of leaving their 'base' station and have demonstrated absolutely no intent to move. These people should either be 'press to test' to confirm or deny their intentions or removed from the CEA register.
That to me is the fairest way - your thoughts?