You never know who's watching - Lesson #27 - Helo Water Landings
Below the Glidepath - not correcting
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You never know who's watching - Lesson #27 - Helo Water Landings
Apart from the MH-60R nearly going straight in to the water (see the video) it is another salutary lesson of these days never knowing who could be watching when you decide to deviate from the Auth. Not sure how they got it back in to the air after that. Incident from 14 September.
Lake Tahoe is a large, very deep freshwater lake on the border between California and Nevada, it is also one of the most popular tourist atractions in the area come summer or winter, demonstrating a complete lack of imagination on the part of the erstwhile submariners.
Navy Investigates Videotaped Helicopter 'Dipping' Incident Into Lake Tahoe - ABC News
Video clip without the annoying ads here:
Lake Tahoe is a large, very deep freshwater lake on the border between California and Nevada, it is also one of the most popular tourist atractions in the area come summer or winter, demonstrating a complete lack of imagination on the part of the erstwhile submariners.
Navy Investigates Videotaped Helicopter 'Dipping' Incident Into Lake Tahoe - ABC News
Video clip without the annoying ads here:
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What I know about flying helicopters could be written on the head of a very small pin but that looks like either a remarkable recovery from a loss of control or a numpty pilot pushing his luck about as far as it can be pushed. I'll be interested to see what any professionals think.
Just speculating here - but I very much doubt this was deliberate, no doubt crew change of pants required!
Surface elevation of Lake Tahoe is 6200' AMSL. Average temperature during daytime in September is 25degC. So Density Altitude could have been 9000' or more.
You need a lot of power to hover a heavy bird at that altitude (chalk 2 appears to be in a very low hover, so better placed for ground effect). Is that quite a coning angle on the dipping machine?
Surface elevation of Lake Tahoe is 6200' AMSL. Average temperature during daytime in September is 25degC. So Density Altitude could have been 9000' or more.
You need a lot of power to hover a heavy bird at that altitude (chalk 2 appears to be in a very low hover, so better placed for ground effect). Is that quite a coning angle on the dipping machine?
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Airshow Mode
...they were returning to San Diego from an "airshow" at Mather AFB (Sacramento, California)-- apparently still in the airshow frame of mind & attitude.
Lake Tahoe is a popular resort area, with lots of people around.
Can probably chalk this one up as still another airshow-related mishap.
The stunts that military pilots pull (both successfully & unsuccessfully) while away from home-base supervision... would fill this forum without end. Been going on for nearly a century around the world.
Lake Tahoe is a popular resort area, with lots of people around.
Can probably chalk this one up as still another airshow-related mishap.
The stunts that military pilots pull (both successfully & unsuccessfully) while away from home-base supervision... would fill this forum without end. Been going on for nearly a century around the world.
Reported as Vortex Ring.
North Island Naval Air Forces Command spokesman Lt. Aaron Kakiel confirmed that the crews involved in the incident have been grounded while a "mishap aviation board" conducts an investigation. Kakiel said it is standard procedure to ground crews temporarily until an investigation is completed.
......
Of the incident itself, Kakiel said both helicopters "settled with power into Lake Tahoe while attempting to go into a hover."
The term "settled with power" means the aircraft still had power, he said, but not enough to actually hover.
......
Of the incident itself, Kakiel said both helicopters "settled with power into Lake Tahoe while attempting to go into a hover."
The term "settled with power" means the aircraft still had power, he said, but not enough to actually hover.
"Mildly" Eccentric Stardriver
It's been many years since I flew choppers, but if you're in a hot and high situation it's a good idea to check you have enough power to hover before actually doing it.
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It's been many years since I flew choppers, but if you're in a hot and high situation it's a good idea to check you have enough power to hover before actually doing it.
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...especially if you go online to check the data for either seaplane landings on the lake or the nearby airport and see how many times "Caution, Check the density altitude" is written.
They may have 'jumped back into the air' but they would not have been doing that had it been concrete beneath their wings.
They may have 'jumped back into the air' but they would not have been doing that had it been concrete beneath their wings.
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They may have 'jumped back into the air' but they would not have been doing that had it been concrete beneath their wings.
Settling with power is the US term for Vortex Ring.
Of the incident itself, Kakiel said both helicopters "settled with power into Lake Tahoe while attempting to go into a hover."
The term "settled with power" means the aircraft still had power, he said, but not enough to actually hover.
The term "settled with power" means the aircraft still had power, he said, but not enough to actually hover.
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Settling with power is the US term for Vortex Ring.
I don't think so...
I don't think so...
Settling with power - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
I'm not saying that is what caused this but my statement is fact.... but the aircraft clearly had enough power to hover looking at the departure. If the aircraft had power applied and the RoD was not reducing then it could well be VRS but that is only speculation.
Probably not vortex ring state
The likely scenario is that he was at slightly too high a density altitude to hover out of ground effect and let the rotor rpm droop excessively while trying to. (One clue is what appears to be a lot of coning of the main rotor on the way down.) Drooping the main rotor rpm causes the tail rotor to slow, which means less directional control thrust, to the point where he can't keep from turning to the right. Fortunately, he manages not to hit the main rotor or tail rotor when he goes into the water (that would be game over ). Once he's in the water, he doesn't need as much lift from the rotor and can regain rpm and directional control. He's also now in "ground effect", which means he has a bit more lift than he did at his initial hover altitude. That allows him to get out of the water and move forward to get into translational lift, which lets him fly away. Vortex ring state is a different condition and does not result in the loss of directional control seen here.
Errr yes it is the US term for Vortex Ring.
The term "settled with power" means the aircraft still had power, he said, but not enough to actually hover.
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MightyGem
As you well know, no amount of surplus power will allow you to hover if you are in Vortex Ring.
As confirmed by InTheWeeds and regardless of what the Blunty spokesman has said, the US call VR settling with power.
HPT
As you well know, no amount of surplus power will allow you to hover if you are in Vortex Ring.
As confirmed by InTheWeeds and regardless of what the Blunty spokesman has said, the US call VR settling with power.
HPT
Avoid imitations
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Shame the previous few seconds weren't shown.
I've got over 300 hours on the type but wouldn't consider myself a Blackhawk expert by any means. However, I reckon it was almost certainly overpitched and losing tail rotor authority, but not in VR. The rate of descent wasn't high enough, nor was the flight path random enough.
I've got over 300 hours on the type but wouldn't consider myself a Blackhawk expert by any means. However, I reckon it was almost certainly overpitched and losing tail rotor authority, but not in VR. The rate of descent wasn't high enough, nor was the flight path random enough.
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Reminds me of the Gazelle whose owner thinking it was dirty had the cunning idea to hover beside one of those farm crop sprayers to wash it, the resulting jet of water went straight down the intake flaming his engine out and resulting in a rapid arrival in a muddy field. 
Or the Jet Ranger underslinging slurry out of a tank onto some fields, an unfortunate catching of the cable on the tank side meant the scoop remained where it was and the Jet Ranger tipped fwd and sank into the cow sh*t..........
Sh*t happens
Or the Jet Ranger underslinging slurry out of a tank onto some fields, an unfortunate catching of the cable on the tank side meant the scoop remained where it was and the Jet Ranger tipped fwd and sank into the cow sh*t..........
Sh*t happens
