Tue 14sep2010 on BBC 2: Battle of Britain "First Light" Docudrama...

[airborne_artist]

* Isn't there some pongo outfit that uses that spelling?

The Rifles, but no-one else.

[Gainesy]

Thanks AA, thought I'd seen it somewhere recently. Probably to do with Afghanistan reports I suppose.

Another thing that was good was the CGI-added tracer with "curve".

[Archimedes]

Originally Posted by Chugalug2

The "expert" was Stephen Bungay who, of course, has just published a book, "The Most Dangerous Enemy" about the Battle of Britain. ...

<snip>

... the Beeb's love of revisionist thinkers ready as always to fight other people's wars. At one point Bungay dismissed German Intelligence as knowing everything but understanding nothing. One felt that the comment could be equally applied to him!

To be fair - Bungay's book was published in 2001 and his knowledge and analysis of the Battle is extremely good (I very much doubt that he would've missed the Bader as AOC-in-C mistake had the thing been run past him). The book was widely praised when it came out, and since he is willing to appear on the TV, this is why you see him so often on programmes about the Battle (and why the book has been reprinted, along with a host of others to coincide with the 70th anniversary)

Also, Bungay isn't a revisionist thinker (and 'revisionism' shouldn't be seen as a dirty word, either. 'Crevice' on the other hand...)

I get the impression that he may have become a bit more 'talking head' over time, though, in that his more recent appearances on TV have seen him being a bit more ready to offer sound-bites rather than analysis (sound-bites being better for the editor, of course) and this sometimes makes him sound overly deprecating of Dowding, or critical of the way the Battle was handled in a way which doesn't appear in the book.

If you want revisionist approaches to the Battle, try Derek Robinson (who claims that the RN was the 'only relevant' service in 1940) or Anthony Cumming (who amongst other things states that the RN won the 'wider Battle of Britian' without really explaining what the wider Battle of Britain was, and whose bid to enhance the reputation of Admiral Forbes - a laudable objective - in various academic journals has been conducted through the mechanism of attempting to diminish Dowding's reputation)

Bungay's view on German intelligence and the egregious 'Beppo' Schmid is generally accepted to be correct these days - there was a lot of information available to the Germans which could and perhaps should've pointed them in the right direction, but Schmid took the easier course of telling Goering what he wanted to hear, not what was actually going on.

[Wwyvern]

The "walking like Bader" got me.

In 1960-ish there was some sort of presentation which was to portay the Control Centre of the BoB to the Great British Public.

Two newly joined JPs on 1 and 54 Sqds were "specially selected" to provide the voices of the airborne pilots.

One of them had taken to walking about in the Mess in the manner of DB, and, stomping round a corner in the Mess (can't remember which one), he walked straight into an Old Bod in civvies who fell over. Much apologising and helping OB to his feet. OB muttered his acceptance of the apology, and stompted off in the manner of DB. He too had artificial legs.

JP did not repeat his party piece, and my Boss retrieved me to do more important work, like becoming operational.

[Chugalug2]

Thanks for correcting me on the publishing date of Bungay's book, Archimedes. I may be wrong but I seem to remember that it was Bungay himself that elevated Bader in his chat to the two bruvs at Cranwell (might have been in the library, though no doubt it is a Media Studies Centre now!). If so, no doubt a genuine slip of the tongue. The mere fact that what he says is generally accepted doesn't mean that it isn't revisionist though. I take your point that isn't necessarily bad, I just get the feeling these days that it only takes the publishing of such a "definitive" book as his to set the new "generally accepted" perceived wisdom.
I have to own up though, it isn't revisionism of the BoB that rankles (I mean, claiming it as a Naval victory is simply "aving a larf"!), but of the Bomber Offensive. Bungay alluded to that from time to time, decrying the Blitz as counter productive (presumably to pressurize the Government into seeking accommodation with Germany), which it certainly was. I felt though that he also meant that the RAF Bombing Offensive, that really got going then, was equally so. In which case I would disagree (and with the "generally accepted" view too). We made it plain that the only accommodation we would accept of Germany was its unconditional surrender. We bombed it to that purpose, ie to achieve victory. We succeeded.

[LOTA]

Archimedes, I wouldn't get too bothered about the opinions of "revisionist" author Derek Robinson. His skills lie not in accurate historical writing but in acerbic, yet entertaining military novels - and books about and written in the Bristol dialect.

[exmover_and_happy]

Install U-Torrent, and then go to this page and click on "Download this torrent", under the big green button.

Sit back and it will arrive, bit by bit, until it's all done. About 1.3Gb, so will take a while. You can then play it on your PC, or perhaps your TV if you have HDMI leads and ports. The file is not DRM protected, unlike the BBCI-player, so you can keep it for posterity.

I just wanted to thank airborne_artist for this link which was very successful. Does anyone know if there is a similar place where I can view the Ewan McGregor documentary that aired last Sunday night on the BBC?

I understand why they block non-uk viewers from watching these programmes on the interwebs, but I wish they'd offer some kind of subscription service to overseas viewers.

[airborne_artist]

Exmover: "BBC Battle of Britain PDTV Xvid AC3 [MVGroup org]" - Share the fun!!! Free movie Torrents Download

[JonnyT1978]

Firstly, I must say that I thought both the 'First Light' and McGregor programmes were superb. Perhaps a little too much love interest in First Light but the flying sequences were great and the whole concept of Wellum narrating it in retrospect worked very well. The flying sequences in the McGregor programme were particularly stunning and I shall have to review them on HD iPlayer to see them in their full glory.

I'm less sure about Bungay to be honest. As a modern history graduate (blowing my trumpet a little) and especially one with a keen interest in WW2 and the build up to it, the omission of Leigh-Mallory to the merit of Bader was a glaring one that he should have really been concerned about if he was putting his name to the programme, given the accepted wisdom.

To me he reminded me very much of BBC economics prophet of doom Robert Peston which was not a good sign.

It also annoys me that these programmes never mention the reason for the RAF raid on Berlin that prompted Hitler to order Goering to change tactics; namely the accidental bombing of Hackney, Islington etc on the night of 24th August. This accident has been attibuted to the bomber's navigators becoming lost or disorientated but nonetheless it was this that prompted WSC to order the bombing of Berlin the following night. Strange how all modern documentaries neglect this fact when the BoB film got it right all thosr years ago...

[Double Zero]

Please excuse thread drift, but Jonny,

this may be ultra-cynical of me, but I've always suspected the accidental bombing by the Luftwaffe played straight into Churchill's hands, to begin a slogging match between cities; to put it bluntly, we could afford the Blitz', but we couldn't afford to lose airfields...

BTW I am a huge fan of Churchill.

[exmover_and_happy]

Thanks airborne - that worked perfectly.

[JonnyT1978]

If we're allowed to continue this discussion!

I tend to agree with your thoughts about WSC Double Zero. Churchill was an arch-pragmatist (fortunately for us!) who had probably calculated as such. My point is though that his hand was somewhat forced as the public at large (and also parliament to a large extent) would have all-but demanded some form of retribution, having regarded the 'accident' as being a deliberate act (not knowing the truth). It is in some ways similar to the obligation felt by President Truman to use the A-bombs on Japan to shorten the war and 'save American lives' (amongst numerous other reasons including demonstrating US military might to the Soviets in the developing Cold War); US public opinion would've been outraged if they knew these bombs had existed and not used...

[Tankertrashnav]

I have a part time job at the local filling station and today I was delighted to serve Geoffrey Wellum, who had bought his car in to put it through the car-wash. I had a chat with him and I'm pleased to say he is still well, although he admits that he's starting to realise that he is 90! I asked him what he thought of his younger self on "First Light" and he said "I thought I was brilliant!"

I really hope I am still making jokes and driving my own car to the car wash when I'm 90. I know I wont be as handsome as Geoffrey - lucky sod!

[Old-Duffer]

You Be Careful ..........

............ TTN, with your luck, you'll drive into the car wash and the doors at the other end will be shut or you forget about the sun roof!

O-D

[captainsmiffy]

I had the honour of lunching the other day with Mr Green, a veteran of the battle and who is still going bloody strong at 93! Definitely a firm grip on all of his marbles and very, very active too. Was most impressed. They obviously made 'em strong all those years ago!

[alisoncc]

Got to see "First Light" for the first time only a few weeks ago, when a local station ran it. Massively impressed, it would have to be the best docu-drama I have ever seen relating to the BoB. Recorded it and burnt it to blu-ray DVD for future viewing.

We seem to have had quite a few good programs of a similar nature recently. Like the story of the girls of the ATA - "Spitfire Girls". Also recorded that. And one on the trans-atlantic ferry pilots during WWII.

Good to hear that Geoffrey W is still going strong.

[Winchweight]

I was very fortunate to attend the premiere of this film, in London 2 weeks before it was screened. The monies raised were all for RAFBF and Geoffery was there himself. My wife and I were extremely priviledged to meet this fine gentleman, who is indeed well and very able.

if you haven't already, then read the book. The film was good, the book is astonishing.

[moggiee]

Originally Posted by 1.3VStall

The whole family watched it, including my two teenage boys, who were spellbound. I took them to Pegasus Bridge Cafe, the D-Day beaches and the cemeteries at Ranville and Caen earlier this year.

I did much the same a few years ago - then went down to the military cemetery at Bayeux to "visit" my great Uncle who never even made it off the beach on June 6th. It's good to see that British schools have made sure that my kids have been properly taught about WW1 and WW2 - unlike when I was at school in the 1970s.

[Tankertrashnav]

An update on Geoffrey Wellum who called in for another car-wash today (see above - that's at least twice this year, which is more than my car has had!)

He tells me he's still doing ok for 90 and was telling me about flying the 2 seat Spitfire at Kidlington a month or so back. He was there for the opening ceremony in July (see link)

BBC News - Kidlington flight academy gives Spitfire flying lessons

He has been back since to fly the aircraft and he said it was as though he had never been away from them, which I can quite believe. Great to see him still having fun.

[1.3VStall]

Isn't it great to see "Boy" continuing to do so well? It's always an absolute pleasure to meet him and he did serve on the RAF's finest fighter squadron during the BoB!