F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
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Everyone can now relax, the F-35 is now better than ever, all thanks to the Donald, apparently... 
F-35 A 'Great Plane' Now, Thanks To President Trump
-RP
F-35 A 'Great Plane' Now, Thanks To President Trump
-RP
Everyone can now relax, the F-35 is now better than ever, all thanks to the Donald, apparently...
F-35 A 'Great Plane' Now, Thanks To President Trump
F-35 A 'Great Plane' Now, Thanks To President Trump
US defense secretary orders immediate review of F-35 and Air Force One
Although Trump has criticised the entire F-35 programme, the review will take only the C variant into consideration, which accounts for the smallest share of Lockheed’s programme of record. The Super Hornet needs a catapult to launch from a carrier and would not be able to replace the short-takeoff and vertical landing B variant.
“In parallel, the deputy secretary of defense will oversee a review that compares F-35C and F/A-18E/F operational capabilities and assess the extent that the F/A-18E/F improvements (an advanced Super Hornet) can be made in order to provide a competitive, cost effective, fighter aircraft alternative,” Mattis writes.
The decision to pit the F-35C against an advanced Super Hornet follows Trump’s 21 December tweet, which targeted the F-35 programme’s cost overruns and suggested Boeing price out a “comparable Super Hornet.” While even an advanced Super Hornet is unable to compete with the F-35 in terms of stealth, FlightGlobal previously noted the F/A-18E/F could provide a natural, non-very low observable (VLO) stealth replacement for the C variant. The Super Hornet could still perform well against less sophisticated threats.
“In parallel, the deputy secretary of defense will oversee a review that compares F-35C and F/A-18E/F operational capabilities and assess the extent that the F/A-18E/F improvements (an advanced Super Hornet) can be made in order to provide a competitive, cost effective, fighter aircraft alternative,” Mattis writes.
The decision to pit the F-35C against an advanced Super Hornet follows Trump’s 21 December tweet, which targeted the F-35 programme’s cost overruns and suggested Boeing price out a “comparable Super Hornet.” While even an advanced Super Hornet is unable to compete with the F-35 in terms of stealth, FlightGlobal previously noted the F/A-18E/F could provide a natural, non-very low observable (VLO) stealth replacement for the C variant. The Super Hornet could still perform well against less sophisticated threats.
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Like most ‘Presidents/Heads of State’ to be, after confirmation a string of people line up with the mass of 'need to know' stuff they never knew before.
The 'Oh my’s’ ‘Good Heavens’ “ Really!!!’ and ‘well I never knew that’ must be something else, as all of a sudden a whole new perspective opens up for them on a multitude of issues, programs and state secrets.
Most of them begin ageing visibly from then on until they either step down or die.
Trump has obviously had a period of being quietly brought up to speed on the F-35, something sadly that will not be available to it’s multitude of detractors who will happily continue badmouth something they know not a lot about.
The 'Oh my’s’ ‘Good Heavens’ “ Really!!!’ and ‘well I never knew that’ must be something else, as all of a sudden a whole new perspective opens up for them on a multitude of issues, programs and state secrets.
Most of them begin ageing visibly from then on until they either step down or die.
Trump has obviously had a period of being quietly brought up to speed on the F-35, something sadly that will not be available to it’s multitude of detractors who will happily continue badmouth something they know not a lot about.
Last edited by Brat; 3rd Feb 2017 at 04:26.
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Brat,
You are sure about that? I'd bet against your reasoning. Example: One of Trump's major pillars of US policy support was for Netanyahoo's settlement enlargement plans ( Tweet: I am all in for you on this, your friend, Donald). Today he took the 180 degree opposite position, don't do it, hold off Netanyahoo. Trump bounces off the wall from one day to the next relative to any substantial convictions he might have about anything. It has nothing to do with advise given or not.
Time to sit back and see what his viewpoints will be in the near future on the F-35, it will not be the same as now... He is early to take credit for the good things he didn't have a hand in (I negotiated a good deal on the F-35) but never takes credit for anything that fails, just his nature...
Trump has obviously had a period of being quietly brought up to speed on the F-35, something sadly that will not be available to it’s multitude of detractors who will happily continue badmouth something they know not a lot about.
Time to sit back and see what his viewpoints will be in the near future on the F-35, it will not be the same as now... He is early to take credit for the good things he didn't have a hand in (I negotiated a good deal on the F-35) but never takes credit for anything that fails, just his nature...
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Learned not to sure about anything. As for your assessment on Trump, it follows my own.
I do however stand on my point about people taking power being ‘enlightened’.
Guantanamo, last I heard, was still functioning. There appear to be one or two things even a President can’t quite change.
The F-35 appears to be here, and a number of countries appear to plan on having them.
I do however stand on my point about people taking power being ‘enlightened’.
Guantanamo, last I heard, was still functioning. There appear to be one or two things even a President can’t quite change.
The F-35 appears to be here, and a number of countries appear to plan on having them.
Spaz, given that the video is 30 minutes long, would you care to summarize the points?
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I'd rather do this:
Agreement Reached on Lowest Priced F-35s in Program History 03 Feb 2017
https://www.f35.com/news/detail/agre...rogram-history
Agreement Reached on Lowest Priced F-35s in Program History 03 Feb 2017
https://www.f35.com/news/detail/agre...rogram-history
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Key take-aways:
1st F-35A Ex RF
13 aircraft deployed to Nellis from Hill AFB, Utah
110 missions flown in 2 weeks, without unserviceability
Most challenging Red Air replication seen to date
F-35A achieved a training ELR of 15:1 but did lose a few (anyone who has done RF will understand why his happens)
Worked interoperably with F-22, UK Typhoon, Growler and Aus Wedgetail, amongst others.
F-35A released inert 2000lb JDAM on most sorties - highest weapon release aircraft type on Flag.
Really just headlines but, for an IOC Block 3i config jet, F-35A has firmly "held its own" from what I've heard.
1st F-35A Ex RF
13 aircraft deployed to Nellis from Hill AFB, Utah
110 missions flown in 2 weeks, without unserviceability
Most challenging Red Air replication seen to date
F-35A achieved a training ELR of 15:1 but did lose a few (anyone who has done RF will understand why his happens)
Worked interoperably with F-22, UK Typhoon, Growler and Aus Wedgetail, amongst others.
F-35A released inert 2000lb JDAM on most sorties - highest weapon release aircraft type on Flag.
Really just headlines but, for an IOC Block 3i config jet, F-35A has firmly "held its own" from what I've heard.
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Lockheed credits Trump's involvement in deal for 90 F-35 jets 03 Feb 2017 Rebecca Kheel
Lockheed credits Trump's involvement in deal for 90 F-35 jets | TheHill
________________________
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...728m-s-433827/
"...The contract is worth about $8.5 billion, a decrease of $728 million from the last batch. The price per jet for the F-35A will also land below $100 million for the first time....
...The price per unit will be $94.6 million for the F-35A, $122.8 million for the F-35B and $121.8 million for the F-35C...."
...The price per unit will be $94.6 million for the F-35A, $122.8 million for the F-35B and $121.8 million for the F-35C...."
________________________
https://www.flightglobal.com/news/ar...728m-s-433827/
"...According to the JPO’s math, the F-35A’s price decreased by 7.3% to $94.6 million, including the Pratt & Whitney F135 engine. The B variant came down to $122.8 million, a 6.7% decrease, and the C decreased by 7.9% to $121.8 million....
...“Lot 10 reflects a $728 million reduction in the total price when compared to Lot 9 and marks the first time the price for an F-35A is below $100 million,” the JPO states. “The bottom line is unit prices, including jet, engine and fee for all three variants went down.”..."
...“Lot 10 reflects a $728 million reduction in the total price when compared to Lot 9 and marks the first time the price for an F-35A is below $100 million,” the JPO states. “The bottom line is unit prices, including jet, engine and fee for all three variants went down.”..."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 3rd Feb 2017 at 23:06. Reason: add fliteglobular text
Spaz,
This price reduction was in the plan for this lot for over a year. In negotiations Lockheed tried to block it, and the govt would not budge. The reduction was announced in the Lot 10 deal in December. At best Trump convinced Lockheed not to fight it further.
The Sultan
This price reduction was in the plan for this lot for over a year. In negotiations Lockheed tried to block it, and the govt would not budge. The reduction was announced in the Lot 10 deal in December. At best Trump convinced Lockheed not to fight it further.
The Sultan
Last edited by The Sultan; 4th Feb 2017 at 02:48. Reason: Correct lot #.
Spaz,
Not so much amusing as pathetic. Today's Lockheed is not the Lockheed of Kelly Johnson. In his day Lockheed would not have padded the contract $700m to give back. They are still $30m or so above original cost per aircraft.
The Sultan
Not so much amusing as pathetic. Today's Lockheed is not the Lockheed of Kelly Johnson. In his day Lockheed would not have padded the contract $700m to give back. They are still $30m or so above original cost per aircraft.
The Sultan
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'The Sultan': I'll guess we have to know 'original cost in what dollars?' - 'today dollars' adjusted for inflation or some other metric. What is your reference for "...$30m or so above original cost per aircraft." Please explain.
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So you're cool with whatever action even a "dictator" might take, as long as it results in the price of an F-35 coming down? Do you realize that the annual US military budget is set by legislation produced by Congress, and even President Trump can only approve or veto the budget legislation?
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Haven't we been through this harrumphing business with El Presidente and the Budget and Uncle Tom Cobbley and all on recent previous pages? Can you see a JOKE? and btw I'm an TASwegian so I ONLY care about the money - show me the money! WTF?! Australians are buying 8 cheaper F-35As - wots not to like.
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Is it F-35 program that has eaten up all the spares?
Quoting the following article: Grounded: Nearly two-thirds of US Navy?s strike fighters can?t fly
"WASHINGTON — The U.S. Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet strike fighters are the tip of the spear, embodying most of the fierce striking power of the aircraft carrier strike group. But nearly two-thirds of the fleet’s strike fighters can’t fly — grounded because they’re either undergoing maintenance or simply waiting for parts or their turn in line on the aviation depot backlog.
Overall, more than half the Navy’s aircraft are grounded, most because there isn’t enough money to fix them. ....."
Quoting the following article: Grounded: Nearly two-thirds of US Navy?s strike fighters can?t fly
"WASHINGTON — The U.S. Navy’s F/A-18 Hornet and Super Hornet strike fighters are the tip of the spear, embodying most of the fierce striking power of the aircraft carrier strike group. But nearly two-thirds of the fleet’s strike fighters can’t fly — grounded because they’re either undergoing maintenance or simply waiting for parts or their turn in line on the aviation depot backlog.
Overall, more than half the Navy’s aircraft are grounded, most because there isn’t enough money to fix them. ....."
F35
KenV. Not sure where you get 38 years from. I am pretty sure that 1st flight was late 1974 which makes 43 years. First production delivery was in June 1979, which makes 38 years. Much has been written about F35, much f that not very complimentary. Most people are extremely concerned about the eye watering cost to UK of both development and production programmes. of course, to that we need to add the new QE Class a/c carriers. So what do uk get for its money. For F35, the main 'selling point' seems to be that it is 5th generation..... This promarily involves Stealth and Sensor Fusion. Sensor Fusion I can understand, particularly in a modern battle space. But Stealth; the key issue is how long into its service life that remains a benefit before it becomes obsolete. After that, what type of a/c are we left with. Fast ? Agile ? Good Weapons payload ? Good range ?
I still struggle with the concept of a stealthy aircraft operating from an A/C Carrier. Surely any adversary would go for the weakest links and target either the Tanker or the Carrier. It seems we are locked into this programme, but deploying both F35 and the Carrier is already stretching our limited defence budget and programmes such as Tornado and to an extent Typhoon enhancements are paying the price. How interesting to compare UK with say Italy (F35, Typhoon, Tornado till 2025 and AMX), Germany (Typhoon and Tornado until post 2030) and Saudi Arabia (F15, Typhoon, Tornado till 2025 at least). The current plan to retire RAF Tornado from 2019 will result in clear and dangerous capability gaps, but as mentioned, it isn't 5th generation.
I still struggle with the concept of a stealthy aircraft operating from an A/C Carrier. Surely any adversary would go for the weakest links and target either the Tanker or the Carrier. It seems we are locked into this programme, but deploying both F35 and the Carrier is already stretching our limited defence budget and programmes such as Tornado and to an extent Typhoon enhancements are paying the price. How interesting to compare UK with say Italy (F35, Typhoon, Tornado till 2025 and AMX), Germany (Typhoon and Tornado until post 2030) and Saudi Arabia (F15, Typhoon, Tornado till 2025 at least). The current plan to retire RAF Tornado from 2019 will result in clear and dangerous capability gaps, but as mentioned, it isn't 5th generation.