F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
CM,
The answer's no, as I expect you already know, but you won't get that response - just more internet quotes!
As an aside, I would suggest that any comments from a UK politician about future defence plans/intentions really aren't worth the paper they are printed. Anything beyond 2015 represents nothing more than aspirations and sound bites.
The answer's no, as I expect you already know, but you won't get that response - just more internet quotes!
As an aside, I would suggest that any comments from a UK politician about future defence plans/intentions really aren't worth the paper they are printed. Anything beyond 2015 represents nothing more than aspirations and sound bites.
Last edited by Biggus; 16th Apr 2013 at 14:02.
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
On reading about the suggestion that other platforms might be able to have EOTS fitted I found this which seemed interesting:
http://selex-es.com/~/media/Files/S/...ess/VIGILX.pdf
http://selex-es.com/~/media/Files/S/...ess/VIGILX.pdf
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 66
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Here you go JSFfan ... seems to be right up you street ... I'm sure you will be well received.
Webinar Date: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 1pm EST, 12:00 PM CST
Webinar : Join us as an F-35 expert and F-35 test pilot discuss why the F-35 is the best solution for Canada
Feel free to pop back and let us know how you got on ...
Webinar Date: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 1pm EST, 12:00 PM CST
Webinar : Join us as an F-35 expert and F-35 test pilot discuss why the F-35 is the best solution for Canada
Feel free to pop back and let us know how you got on ...
CM occasionally likes to check that certain people aren't passing off stuff they've heard and not fully understood as their own wise words. He also likes to make sure that such 'facts' aren't being misused either intentionally or unintentionally. It would be very easy for someone with an unexplained fanaticism to give people the wrong impression and to mislead them. We wouldn't want that, would we?
Out of interest, JSFfan, have you used, experienced or worked on any of those cockpits that you mentioned? Can Eaglemmommin ask if you are either a pilot or an engineer involved in military aerospace activities?
Out of interest, JSFfan, have you used, experienced or worked on any of those cockpits that you mentioned? Can Eaglemmommin ask if you are either a pilot or an engineer involved in military aerospace activities?
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: Australia
Posts: 495
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
thanks for that, it will be worth viewing, It's always nice to get the story from someone who knows, the interviews on SLD are worth reading too
The Way Ahead with the F-35B: A Discussion with the Deputy Commandant for Aviation | SLDInfo
CM, I take what people who know seriously, someone playing at 'objective concern' not so much
The Way Ahead with the F-35B: A Discussion with the Deputy Commandant for Aviation | SLDInfo
CM, I take what people who know seriously, someone playing at 'objective concern' not so much
Air Cdre Bentley : If I can talk to simulations, and then Gary can—he probably talks best to simulations—I would say this. You can only truly represent what the F35 is capable of and what other fifth generation and other fourth generation aeroplanes are capable of when you have all of the classified information. Trying to simulate something that you do not fully understand is based on false assumptions and false ground rules. If you go in with false assumptions and false ground rules, you will get false answers.
Last edited by JSFfan; 16th Apr 2013 at 15:33.
You can only truly represent what the F35 is capable of and what other fifth generation and other fourth generation aeroplanes are capable of when you have all of the classified information.
That statement would certainly seem to undercut the validity of any effort to simulate JSF-versus-anything-Russian-or-Chinese, would it not? One side of these sims is always open-source intel + common sense analysis. Why should such techniques not work in both directions?
Backing up a little to the 1-v-2-seats: I believe that the FAF, who at one point planned to take most of their Rafales with two seats, have not gone as far as intended in that direction, and indeed if you look at pix related to the Mali op you'll see lots of single-seaters loaded to the walls with LGBs, AASMs and pods.
On the other hand, I also believe that the USN has loaded its Block 2 Shornet buys heavily with the station wagon model and of course the RAAF has bought only Fs. The USN has certainly made a big deal of two seats in the FAC-A role and the ability to have the nose gunner
focus on the sky and the GIB on the ground. One argument is that although automation has improved the sensors have become more capable and there is a bigger picture to comprehend.
There's probably little point in a two-seat JSF, though - it is indeed highly automated, so the back-seater can do little except watch as the sensor-fusion gizmo puts on its wizard hat and separates the righteous from the ungodly, without explaining how it does that because it is secret.
That statement would certainly seem to undercut the validity of any effort to simulate JSF-versus-anything-Russian-or-Chinese, would it not? One side of these sims is always open-source intel + common sense analysis. Why should such techniques not work in both directions?
Backing up a little to the 1-v-2-seats: I believe that the FAF, who at one point planned to take most of their Rafales with two seats, have not gone as far as intended in that direction, and indeed if you look at pix related to the Mali op you'll see lots of single-seaters loaded to the walls with LGBs, AASMs and pods.
On the other hand, I also believe that the USN has loaded its Block 2 Shornet buys heavily with the station wagon model and of course the RAAF has bought only Fs. The USN has certainly made a big deal of two seats in the FAC-A role and the ability to have the nose gunner
focus on the sky and the GIB on the ground. One argument is that although automation has improved the sensors have become more capable and there is a bigger picture to comprehend. There's probably little point in a two-seat JSF, though - it is indeed highly automated, so the back-seater can do little except watch as the sensor-fusion gizmo puts on its wizard hat and separates the righteous from the ungodly, without explaining how it does that because it is secret.
Last edited by LowObservable; 16th Apr 2013 at 15:59.
Join Date: Sep 2010
Location: Neverland
Posts: 59
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Webinar Date: Tuesday, April 30, 2013 at 1pm EST, 12:00 PM CST
Webinar : Join us as an F-35 expert and F-35 test pilot discuss why the F-35 is the best solution for Canada
Surely JSFfan will be attending as the F35 expert?
Webinar : Join us as an F-35 expert and F-35 test pilot discuss why the F-35 is the best solution for Canada
Surely JSFfan will be attending as the F35 expert?
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Exiled in England
Age: 48
Posts: 1,015
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
JSFFAN will be attending as he is actually building the damn thing and is sick of all you naysayers dissin the product......
FWIW I think he comes across like a 12 yr old with a real thing about an 80's supercar pin up.
"my car is better than all of the ones you grown ups drive but I have no real idea and won't tell you that I'm 12"
la la la I'm not listening to you but am totally sold on the blurb put out by the dealer! this car goes elebenty bazillion miles an hour and corners at 1200g etc.
feel free to play along. but remember - opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one.
FWIW I think he comes across like a 12 yr old with a real thing about an 80's supercar pin up.
"my car is better than all of the ones you grown ups drive but I have no real idea and won't tell you that I'm 12"
la la la I'm not listening to you but am totally sold on the blurb put out by the dealer! this car goes elebenty bazillion miles an hour and corners at 1200g etc.
feel free to play along. but remember - opinions are like arseholes, everyone's got one.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: UK
Posts: 98
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
LO I think it's fair to say APA et al don't have access to the F35/F22/F15/F16/F anything or SU anything performance models. I think the US is a bit more unique in that repect as they have had access in the past to several MIG models and some Sukhoi's and clearly know the performance envelopes of their own kit.
I can't imagine any modeling of the PAK-FA or others would be anything other than guess work though.
I can't imagine any modeling of the PAK-FA or others would be anything other than guess work though.
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: in the magical land of beer and chocolates
Age: 52
Posts: 506
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just some interesting info that somehow fits in this debate
Boeing and USAF will have to recertificate entire F-15SA flight envelope
Boeing and USAF will have to recertificate entire F-15SA flight envelope
"The entire F-15 flight envelope requires clearance for the F-15SA fly-by-wire system," the USAF says. "The flight test to certify airworthiness will take approximately a year and a half to accomplish."
True fly-by-wire is a departure from the traditional F-15 hybrid electronic/mechanical flight control system. Previous incarnations of the jet were equipped with a dual-channel, high-authority, three-axis control augmentation system superimposed on top of a hydro-mechanical system.
True fly-by-wire is a departure from the traditional F-15 hybrid electronic/mechanical flight control system. Previous incarnations of the jet were equipped with a dual-channel, high-authority, three-axis control augmentation system superimposed on top of a hydro-mechanical system.
Kbrock,
Thanks for posting that. It makes me wonder why they even want to go for full digital in a jet that was designed, aerodynamically, to be hyd/mech/elec. I can't think what advantage FBW will bring to a stable, but agile, jet. Any ideas anyone?
Oh, and 18 months to test it? Half of me thinks that's optomistic and the other suddenly sees the answer to my question. It's all Boeing income. Maybe it's my cynical side creeping in.
LO, that's what I think too. Actually, I think it's more than you think - or maybe more than you are stating here.
Coff, that wasn't a super car, the definition of LO and VLO kept changing and it ended up 93% over-budget (anyone recognise the figure 93%?). The operators did appreciate the excellent rearwar vis, but it failed its MoT test. Who would have thought?
HJ, if you get an answer I shall be very, but pleasantly surprised.
Moomin, spot on.
Now, more important, this is the first Weber outing of the year and, at the moment, we have a slight sticking problem due to start of year burning off and insufficient oiling. Off to sort it out.
Thanks for posting that. It makes me wonder why they even want to go for full digital in a jet that was designed, aerodynamically, to be hyd/mech/elec. I can't think what advantage FBW will bring to a stable, but agile, jet. Any ideas anyone?
Oh, and 18 months to test it? Half of me thinks that's optomistic and the other suddenly sees the answer to my question. It's all Boeing income. Maybe it's my cynical side creeping in.
LO, that's what I think too. Actually, I think it's more than you think - or maybe more than you are stating here.
Coff, that wasn't a super car, the definition of LO and VLO kept changing and it ended up 93% over-budget (anyone recognise the figure 93%?). The operators did appreciate the excellent rearwar vis, but it failed its MoT test. Who would have thought?
HJ, if you get an answer I shall be very, but pleasantly surprised.
Moomin, spot on.
Now, more important, this is the first Weber outing of the year and, at the moment, we have a slight sticking problem due to start of year burning off and insufficient oiling. Off to sort it out.
Last edited by Courtney Mil; 16th Apr 2013 at 18:38.
Join Date: Feb 2008
Location: East Sussex UK
Age: 66
Posts: 6,995
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like
on
1 Post
Courtney ... Get one of these old chap ... I did ... an AWT 5 Burner burning Propane. With the cowl down EGT rises quickly to normal ... back off the throttles and the jobs a good en ...
I won't tell BEagle if you swap your Weber in for something a little more sporty
PS. The kit pic is correct ... but that's not my back garden
I won't tell BEagle if you swap your Weber in for something a little more sporty
PS. The kit pic is correct ... but that's not my back garden