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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 7th Mar 2018, 22:39
  #11181 (permalink)  
 
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I think I will wait till Air Power Australia gives their opinion. After all, they are the experts on the Super Hornet and the F-35. I've often seen SANFU bow to their greater knowledge.
ausairpower.net/bug.html

It's just that if they wake up to themselves and cancel it, it had better happen soon. There is a commitment order for 1,000 F-35 by 2022 and Australia will have all their 72 delivered by 2023. Eight of which are being delivered this year. If they don't hurry up. Australia will be the first country with a complete f-35 fleet and be stuck with them, when everyone else cancels theirs.

Last edited by golder; 8th Mar 2018 at 04:18.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 07:29
  #11182 (permalink)  
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The point here is that the USN hasn’t been ordering the F-35C. Each time the budget has come around they’ve ordered more Super Hornets...

Returning to my point that their Super Hornet orders have reached the point that they can retire the last of the F-18A/B/C/Ds that the F-35C was supposed to replace - and hence the fate of the 4 remaining legacy USN F-18 Sqns. It would seem it was indeed not a coincidence....

The future of the handful of USMC F-18 Sqns also supposed to require with with the F-35C as opposed to F-35B remains in the balance.. though the USN hand-me-downs will allow them to soldier on for a few more, expensive, years....

US Navy to scrap scores of fighter jets from its inventory

WASHINGTON ― The U.S. Navy is moving to scrap almost 140 older Hornet fighters from its inventory and accelerate the transition to newer Super Hornet models in a bid to cut the costs of maintaining old aircraft that have seen hard use over two decades of continuous combat operations. The Navy projects it will recoup the better part of a billion dollars over the next five years, money used to fund other readiness initiatives both in the beleaguered Naval Aviation Enterprise and elsewhere.

The plan, hashed out in June, is to strike F/A-18 “A” through “D” models for a total of 136 Hornets, 66 of which will be gone by the end of 2020.

Two strike board reviews with Fleet, CNO, and NAVAIR personnel determined that 136 aircraft could be authorized for strike because their effective life was consumed and would require significant repair,” said Lt. Lauren Chatmas, a Navy spokeswoman. “The Navy will strike these aircraft over the course of fiscal years 2017 and 2020”.

The Navy thinks this is an opportunity to get some usable spare parts for the in-service jets and help the Marine Corps by sending it the best of the remaining aircraft. “The decision was based upon readiness risk of existing F/A-18 A-D inventory, long term operational costs versus gain in capability, and the potential to improve USMC readiness by transferring best of breed aircraft to the USMC,” Chatmas said.

The plan recoups about $124 million in 2019 and $852 million across the five-year budget projection, Chatmas said. Four squadrons flying legacy Hornets will transition to the newer versions between now and the end of 2019, she said.

The Navy has been buying batches of Hornets in recent years to replace the ones that are at the end of their service lives. The service has been slow to buy its F-35C, citing development issues.

The Navy’s flight demonstration team, the Blue Angels, will have to sit tight with its legacy Hornets until there are enough “E” or “F” versions available to spare, Chatmas said.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 09:27
  #11183 (permalink)  
 
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Navy cans knackered classic bugs on logistics grounds - shock horror! Must inevitably mean F35C is dead says well respected and not at all sensational blogsite.

Or you could try what the USN is actually saying

http://navylive.dodlive.mil/2017/08/...nto-the-fleet/

Which includes the following tidbits - albeit sprinkled with defspeak nonsense.

"Recognizing Naval Aviation’s capability of today and the need for increased capability tomorrow, the Navy remains committed to pursuing the right procurement ramp for F-35C to balance inventory management, affordability and force modernization. A detailed asset allocation study determined that the most efficient and effective composition of strike fighters for the future CVW is two squadrons of F-35C and two of F/A-18E/F. With 10 CVWs , the Navy’s objective is to attain 20 F-35C squadrons, two per CVW by the early-2030s. This strategy calls for the continued procurement of low rate initial production aircraft and the enhanced capabilities of Block 3F software, and eventually Block 4’s advanced capabilities. The Navy’s plan for full rate production optimizes the force for the introduction of next generation capabilities to the Navy in the near term, while allowing the fleet to build the community and work integration solutions."

That doesn't sound like "bin it". Nor does ;

"The F-35C’s stealth characteristics, long-range combat identification and ability to penetrate threat envelopes, while fusing multiple information sources into a coherent picture, will enhance the role that the CSG and numbered fleets must play in support of our national interests. Ultimately, with the F-35C integrated and interoperable with the CVW, the CSG of the future will continue to be lethal, survivable and able to accomplish the entire spectrum of mission sets to include day one response to high end threats."
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 10:55
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There would seem to be a logical case for the USMC to put the first F35C squadron on a carrier.

If the USN is happy with the F/A-18E/F in the near future and the legacy Hornets are getting too expensive to maintain, financially it makes some sense and builds on the USMC's knowledge base from operating the F35B.

Then when the USN is comfortable with the performance and integration into the CVW of the F35C, squadrons can be generated or transferred over to the F35C, which by then may have reduced in price.
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 11:41
  #11185 (permalink)  
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I’m sure the USN will be happy to accept the F-35C, they just won’t commit their budget to them but spend it on other items. If the House and/or Senate want to add 12 or. Ore as a budget supplemental each year, I’m sure they’ll find a use for them....
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Old 8th Mar 2018, 13:26
  #11186 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by ORAC
I’m sure the USN will be happy to accept the F-35C, they just won’t commit their budget to them but spend it on other items. If the House and/or Senate want to add 12 or. Ore as a budget supplemental each year, I’m sure they’ll find a use for them....

If only analysis of the USN budget materials for F35C since FY2016 supported that contention....
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 09:04
  #11187 (permalink)  
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I believe that’s an additional $16B, of which the UK, as the only Tier 1 partner, will pick the lion’s share of $3.7B.....

U.S. F-35 fighter modernization could cost $16 billion through 2024
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 09:28
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From Janes...............

Key Points

  • The Pentagon is facing a major potential F-35 Block 4/C2D2 cost increase
  • This could add between USD6.9 billion and USD12.5 billion more to the Pentagon’s most expensive platform
The Pentagon is facing a cost increase for what was known as Block 4 modernisation of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF) ranging between USD6.9 billion and USD12.5 billion, according to a key lawmaker and a Defense Department official.

The Government Accountability Office (GAO) in August tabbed at over USD3.9 billion the research, development, test, and evaluation (RDT&E) funding needed for F-35 Block 4 modernisation, now known as Continuous Capability Development and Delivery (C2D2), through fiscal year 2022 (FY 2022). During a 7 March 2018 House Armed Services (HASC) tactical air and land forces subcommittee hearing, F-35 program executive officer Admiral Mat Winter said C2D2 would cost USD10.8 billion through FY 2024.

Subcommittee Ranking Member Niki Tsongas of Massachusetts said the total cost for C2D2 could reach USD16.4 billion through FY 2024 – USD11 billion for development and USD5.4 billion in procurement. Tsongas believed this figure greatly exceeded any cost figures previously provided to Congress.

GAO said in August that Block 4 would be carried out in four increments – 4.1, 4.2, 4.3, and 4.4. Block 4.1 is primarily software, as well as some new capabilities and correct deficiencies of nine capabilities carried over from the current development programme, such as the prognostics health management system down-link and communication capabilities. GAO said programme officials expected increments 4.1 and 4.3 to be primarily software updates while increments 4.2 and 4.4 would consist of more significant hardware changes.
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Old 9th Mar 2018, 17:58
  #11189 (permalink)  
 
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So, once again, the facts run counter to the fiction...
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 15:22
  #11190 (permalink)  
 
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F-35 Parts Shortage Threatens To Hold Up Pilot Training

On Aviation Week - F-35 Parts Shortage Threatens To Hold Up Pilot Training

Snip:-
Compounding the problem, the GAO found that the F-35 enterprise does not have enough capacity to repair components “in a timely manner,” because the establishment of repair capabilities at the military depots is six years behind schedule. These capabilities were planned to be completed by 2016, but some capabilities have now been delayed until 2022, according to the watchdog.
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Old 13th Mar 2018, 19:45
  #11191 (permalink)  
 
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Editorial in. Times today saying it looks like foreign customers are being held over a barrel on costs and that this is "unfriendly"....

First straw in the wind .........
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 01:07
  #11192 (permalink)  
 
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HH,
Editorial in. Times today saying it looks like foreign customers are being held over a barrel on costs and that this is "unfriendly"....

First straw in the wind .........
Realism is finally setting in...
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 10:56
  #11193 (permalink)  
 
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Very little of this could not have been foreseen ten years ago, when the signs that the program was out of control, with a ludicrously optimistic schedule, were emerging. That was also when Stillion and Perdue warned that the F-35 could not be expected to dominate the A2A fight of the near future. Eight years ago the SAR warned us about O&S costs.

And here we are.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 12:34
  #11194 (permalink)  
 
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"Stillion and Perdue warned that the F-35"
Now that was brave of you, I wouldn't have posted this. It is a long and tragic story, finishing with Stillion telling RepSim/APA etc. to never contact him again.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 14:32
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Is there a financial case for now saying all bets are off, cancelling the UK order and telling the contractors to go whistle?

I would happily see one of the UK carriers sold off and the other kept as a helicopter platform.
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 14:34
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Brave man!!

WEBF and his mates will round to see you sharpish.................
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Old 14th Mar 2018, 22:03
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Did it come across wrong? It's a common expression here. Stillion was lead astray by repSim/APA and embarrassed himself with the misinformation, that took several years to overcome. To say that he was unhappy with repSim/APA is an understatement
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 08:17
  #11198 (permalink)  
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Luftwaffe chief dismissed over F-35 support

The Chief of the Luftwaffe is to leave his position in large part due to his support for a German procurement of the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter (JSF), Jane’s has learned.

Lieutenant General Karl Müllner will leave his position by the end of May, with the news of his retirement breaking just two days after Germany’s defence secretary, Ursula von der Leyen, was sworn in for another term.

Jane’s understands that Gen Müllner’s outspoken public support for the JSF as a successor to the German Tornado fleet was pivotal in the decision for his early retirement. “The Luftwaffe considers the F-35’s capability as the benchmark for the selection process for the Tornado replacement, and I think I have expressed myself clearly enough as to what the favourite of the air force is,” Gen Müllner told Jane’s and other media in November 2017.

The Chief of the Luftwaffe’s active support of the JSF clashes with current Ministry of Defence planning, which prefers a successor solution involving the Eurofighter Typhoon.
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 09:31
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Wow!!!

That will get the attention of SO's everywhere.....

Expect some serious caution going forward.....
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Old 17th Mar 2018, 09:58
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Originally Posted by ORAC
Luftwaffe chief dismissed over F-35 support

The Chief of the Luftwaffe’s active support of the JSF clashes with current Ministry of Defence planning, which prefers a successor solution involving the Eurofighter Typhoon.
Makes some sense to follow the UK policy of replacing the Tornado A2G role with Typhoon. They clearly are not currently able to logistically support their jets let alone the complex F35. The major issue though would be their nuclear requirement which Typhoon is not capable.
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