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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 8th Dec 2018, 10:50
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Why

Why is the F-35 so expensive? It would be an interesting exercise to determine the precise reasons for the F-35 high cost. I propose that a very high percentage of the cost is development which includes graft and inefficiency caused by the contractor manipulating production to try and make the contract non cancelable. The US government and other buyers have paid for the development in spades. They should take possession of the designs and rebid it. At this point a head to head competition could take place between the F-35 and other choices such as a Super Harrier or Super F-18 or Super Rafale.
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Old 8th Dec 2018, 13:20
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What constitutes a very high percentage?
How can a manufacturer manipulate production whilst in development?
Who would bid against the incumbent who already has a production line?
How would a state take someone’s IP without risking every other manufacturer ever doing business with them again?
Hasn’t Belgium just run a head to head that the F-35 won?
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Old 9th Dec 2018, 22:43
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Originally Posted by abdunbar View Post
Why is the F-35 so expensive? It would be an interesting exercise to determine the precise reasons for the F-35 high cost. I propose that a very high percentage of the cost is development which includes graft and inefficiency caused by the contractor manipulating production to try and make the contract non cancelable. The US government and other buyers have paid for the development in spades. They should take possession of the designs and rebid it. At this point a head to head competition could take place between the F-35 and other choices such as a Super Harrier or Super F-18 or Super Rafale.
I don't know anything about aircraft but in my experience of projects in general the cost overrun is because the whole effort is trying to please too many people. But if you don't please enough people, you'll never get the money. So its' just a fact of life.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 10:21
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Something in the news about stealth coatings wearing out every flight...
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 10:53
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
Something in the news about stealth coatings wearing out every flight...
I read the same and instantly dismissed the content. The coating integrity would only be an issue if it was mission critical. As the aircraft are only currently being operated as the squadrons and crews work up, I just don't buy it.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 12:05
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Originally Posted by Speedywheels View Post
I read the same and instantly dismissed the content. The coating integrity would only be an issue if it was mission critical. As the aircraft are only currently being operated as the squadrons and crews work up, I just don't buy it.
Well somebody does!

An RAF source told the Sunday Express: “This situation obviously has to be rectified before the plane enters operational service”.

They said Mr Williamson and RAF chief Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier had always been aware of the problem.



"Another company spokesman said: “Stealth maintenance on the F-35 is proving to be a significant success. It requires less maintenance and…is easier, more affordable and faster to repair compared to previous low-observable aircraft”.

"But Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, a former RAF director of defence studies, said: “Lockheed Martin says it’s better now, but it takes just one scratch to give the fighter jet the same radar profile as a 747, the you may as well not be bothering”.



Still I wouldn't worry too much, they wont ever be fighting anyone important.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 16:10
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
Well somebody does!

An RAF source told the Sunday Express: “This situation obviously has to be rectified before the plane enters operational service”.

They said Mr Williamson and RAF chief Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier had always been aware of the problem.




"But Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, a former RAF director of defence studies, said: “Lockheed Martin says it’s better now, but it takes just one scratch to give the fighter jet the same radar profile as a 747, the you may as well not be bothering”.



.
I’m not sure that can be taken too seriously. If it had no coating at all it still would not have the RCS of a 747.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:43
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Whilst this chap may have more relevant experience in his CV can I suggest that Dir of Studies has no relevance whatsoever in the field of LO maintenance?
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:45
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
"Another company spokesman said: “Stealth maintenance on the F-35 is proving to be a significant success. It requires less maintenance and…is easier, more affordable and faster to repair compared to previous low-observable aircraft”.
Stealth maintenance was what killed previous attempts to put stealth aircraft on carriers. It was just not doable on a carrier. USN accepted the F-35 largely based on the great improvement in robustness of the stealth coating, and the maintainability of those coatings.

"But Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, a former RAF director of defence studies, said: “Lockheed Martin says it’s better now, but it takes just one scratch to give the fighter jet the same radar profile as a 747, the you may as well not be bothering”.
This sounds more like jest/hyperbole than fact. With no coatings at all the F-35 has a far smaller RCS than a 747.
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 17:47
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Anyone who uses the phrase ‘fighter jet’ probably jumps the queue for instant dismissal!😉
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Old 10th Dec 2018, 18:58
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Surprised you haven't posted this already, Spaz. RAAF F-35A's arrive at RAAF Base Williamtown.

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Old 12th Dec 2018, 11:25
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F-35 flypast..... 35 of them!

https://theaviationist.com/2018/11/2...ormation-ever/
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Old 12th Dec 2018, 12:43
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NutLoose, you are about three weeks late to that show.
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 17:13
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Tokyo set to become second biggest F-35 operator

The Japanese cabinet has approved a plan to add an additional 105 Lockheed Martin F-35s to its planned fleet of 42 examples, potentially making it the world’s second largest F-35 operator.

In a press briefing, the chief cabinet secretary Yoshihide Suga confirmed that the country’s Medium Term Defence Program has been approved by the cabinet.

Of Tokyo’s eventual F-35 fleet of 147 examples, it is likely that 107 will be conventional take-off and landing F-35As, while 40 will be short take-off and vertical landing (STOVL) F-35Bs. Flight Fleets Analyzer shows that a fleet of this size would make Tokyo the second largest operator of the F-35 type after the United States, and putting it ahead of the United Kingdom.
Full article on Flight Global
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Old 19th Dec 2018, 17:44
  #11655 (permalink)  
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Already covered in detail on the Japanese Carrier thread.

New Japanese Carrier
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Old 20th Dec 2018, 15:20
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Perhaps they have found a new use for whale oil.
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 10:14
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As they say in Ireland, "Whale Oil Beef Hooked"
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Old 21st Dec 2018, 10:18
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Originally Posted by KG86 View Post
As they say in Ireland, "Whale Oil Beef Hooked"
(took a couple of seconds...)
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Old 22nd Dec 2018, 23:45
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Originally Posted by weemonkey View Post
Well somebody does!

An RAF source told the Sunday Express: “This situation obviously has to be rectified before the plane enters operational service”.

They said Mr Williamson and RAF chief Air Chief Marshal Sir Stephen Hillier had always been aware of the problem.



"Another company spokesman said: “Stealth maintenance on the F-35 is proving to be a significant success. It requires less maintenance and…is easier, more affordable and faster to repair compared to previous low-observable aircraft”.

"But Air Commodore Andrew Lambert, a former RAF director of defence studies, said: “Lockheed Martin says it’s better now, but it takes just one scratch to give the fighter jet the same radar profile as a 747, the you may as well not be bothering”.



Still I wouldn't worry too much, they wont ever be fighting anyone important.
I would have to go digging, but some may recall the test where there was deliberately, significant damage done to the wing in several places. There was a picture and description, showing what was done. It still met it's RCS requirements.

I think they may be referring to the IR spray coat? I haven't really gone into it a lot. I would assume there may be an additional final protective coat, for the IR coating.
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Old 28th Dec 2018, 12:33
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Interesting read:

https://nationalinterest.org/blog/bu...ade-list-39807
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