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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 27th Nov 2018, 06:39
  #11621 (permalink)  
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Death spiral: https://asia.nikkei.com/Politics/Int...ghters-from-US

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Old 27th Nov 2018, 10:43
  #11622 (permalink)  
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Now let's wait for those japanese Ospreys. Their "cruiser" is sized for them already.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 13:29
  #11623 (permalink)  
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If I might offer a couple of thoughts here.

If the Japanese go for this, it's a big deal, militarily and politically. Militarily, it's not the first time that a navy has taken a ship originally designed for helicopters only and decided to put a STOVL aircraft on it. However, it would be the first time that any such conversion would involve the F-35B, and that aircraft's capabilities make this significant. The potential ability to launch high-end strike missions from the sea, as well as provide much enhanced air defence capability around a deployed fleet, appear to be a Japanese response to the Chinese Navy's drive to field a maritime air capability, and possibly a signal to North Korea as well.

Politically, this is a big one. China has fired fairly stern verbal warning shots across Japan's bow last year about any such conversion of the Izumo, and I'd expect more to follow in the coming days. It will also be interesting to see how the North Koreans respond, as well as the US.

I noted that the pictures that Spaz kindly posted up show a ski-jump. This would be the first use of this for the F-35B apart from the UK. It will be really interesting to see where the Japanese go to for the data to design their ski jump. I'd normally expect them to go to the USN and Pax River, but the UK now has some seriously up to date expertise in integrating this aircraft on to ships, plus some really Gucci approach and landing aids ideas. Interesting times, as they say out East.

Best Regards as ever too all those making advanced STOVL work at sea,

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Old 27th Nov 2018, 14:47
  #11624 (permalink)  
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One thinks Japan had this in mind when they specified a whole host of F-35B-friendly design features for this ship... just in case.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 15:17
  #11625 (permalink)  
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Good link here to an February this year setting out the Japanese approach to the Izumo design.

Officials Admit Japan's 'Helicopter Destroyers' Were Also Designed For Jets - The Drive

Looks like they took a sensible approach to sizing of lifts, deck strength, hangar deck head clearance, aviation fuel capacity etc. If they got these about right, getting F-35B on board will, be a simpler job. Putting the ski jump on would be an extremely smart move.

Best Regards as ever to those taking the tough decisions,

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Old 27th Nov 2018, 15:38
  #11626 (permalink)  

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Lonewolf, I looked at what you said about the USAF Elephant Walk video:
That video is a bloody pain in the butt to listen to: they can't be bothered to use a human being to narrate; they had a robot voice "reading" the text from a prepared script.
Dear USAF: that video production was bush league, guys and gals. You can do better.
but I hadn't bothered to actually listen to it.

Now I have, and, as a broadcaster and occasional voice-over person, I do so agree. I'm horrified that any professional PR person/film producer could let such arrant aural crap be associated with what should be a reasonably interesting record of a significant story. In fact I found it hard to believe. But there it was, many egregious examples of nonsense pronunciation and inflection - each of which made the subject matter harder to understand .

How depressing. i hope you have more influence with USAF than I (zero)!

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Old 27th Nov 2018, 17:33
  #11627 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by airsound View Post
Lonewolf, I looked at what you said about the USAF Elephant Walk video
I hope you have more influence with USAF than I (zero)!
Given that they didn't listen much to me when I was active duty, Navy (though they did take a few suggestions about our joint pilot training on board one time), I'd say I match your influence precisely.
I am so used to the USAF PR machine much better polished; it really struck me how lame that was.
I guess someone got an award for innovative use of technology.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 17:40
  #11628 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by SpazSinbad View Post
No. I don't care - not my country - not my navy - not my problem. You figure it out. I'm sure you want to.
That's unusual. It's never stopped you before.
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 18:52
  #11629 (permalink)  
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:-) My MOTHER was disappointed in the same manner because I rejected the RAAF to join the RAN and THEN.... slope off to the FLEET AIR ARM! Meanwhile

HMS Queen Elizabeth, F-35B trials, finale
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Old 27th Nov 2018, 19:02
  #11630 (permalink)  
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F-35 Lightning II Pax River ITF - F-35B HMS Queen Elizabeth First Of Class Flight Trials [1080p]

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Old 27th Nov 2018, 19:31
  #11631 (permalink)  
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Joint Force F-35Bs with US & French jets Exercise 'Point Blank'

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Old 28th Nov 2018, 12:18
  #11632 (permalink)  
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There's something weirdly low-drama about the FOC video despite the music. The F-35s just purr up the ski jump remarkably slowly and fly away. They hovertaxi or SRVL in and shut down. It's all very British. Even the helo looks kind of inelegant by comparison, thrashing around and making a racket.
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 12:39
  #11633 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by KenV View Post
you can add lotsa new tech to old aircraft, but it's usually a lot harder than it looks. Take the Typhoon. AESA radars have been around for well over a decade and after years and years of testing, the Typhoon fleet has yet to get it. Super Hornet Block 3 is in the works and it does not have everything in terms of sensors and systems that F-35 already has. As for onboard processing vs off board processing, doing the processing on board tremendously reduces the datalink bandwidth required to transmit raw sensor data. The price of computing continues to go down so it makes sense to process locally, while no matter how many very very expensive secure transponders they put in orbit, we never have enough bandwidth to go around. Further, processing locally means the pilot is able to act on the data immediately and independent of ground support. And further still, it means the pilot can turn off his datalink as necessary to preserve/enhance stealth.

What purpose? Usually the purpose of such exercises, especially the first time they are done, is not to answer questions but to enable planners to ask the right questions so as to develop the best tactics and procedures to best employ the available assets. Later exercises will wring out the tactics and (hopefully) answer more questions than they raise.

And BTW, one of the reasons for a huge exercise like this is not to test the aircraft or even the flight crews, but to test the maintainers and the logistics infrastructure. If a mass launch is required, can the maintainers and the logistics tail provide enough airframes all at once to satisfy such a massive surge requirement. Once they're satisfied the logistics can handle such a massive surge, the next step will be to see if the armorers can handle such a massive surge. It's one thing to launch dozens of fully fueled full mission capable aircraft at once. It's another to launch get them all fully armed. Learn to walk before you try to run.

In fact they showed they couldn' as there was an abort...
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 13:38
  #11634 (permalink)  
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Plan 4, taxi 3, launch 2..... and then try and find frame or diversions for the last bird after the other has an airborne abort......
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Old 28th Nov 2018, 13:57
  #11635 (permalink)  
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Japan to order 100 more F-35 fighters from US

TOKYO -- Japan is preparing to order another 100 F-35 stealth fighter jets from the U.S. to replace some of its aging F-15s, according to sources.

The plan can be considered a response to China's military buildup, as well as a nod to U.S. President Donald Trump's call for Tokyo to buy more American defense equipment. Japan already intended to procure 42 of the new fighters. A single F-35 costs more than 10 billion yen ($88.1 million), meaning the additional order would exceed 1 trillion yen.

Japan's government plans to approve the purchase when it adopts new National Defense Program Guidelines at a cabinet meeting in mid-December. It will also include the F-35 order in its medium-term defense program, which covers fiscal 2019 to fiscal 2023. The government wants to obtain 42 F-35s as successors to its F-4s by fiscal 2024.

The 42 fighters Japan originally planned to buy are all F-35As, a conventional takeoff and landing variant. The additional 100 planes would include both the F-35A and F-35B, which is capable of short takeoffs and vertical landings.

At present, Japan deploys about 200 F-15s, roughly half of which cannot be upgraded. The Defense Ministry wants to replace the planes that cannot be upgraded with the 100 F-35s, while enhancing and retaining the remaining F-15s.

To accommodate the F-35Bs, the government intends to revamp the Maritime Self-Defense Force's JS Izumo helicopter carrier to host the fighters.......

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Old 28th Nov 2018, 21:54
  #11636 (permalink)  
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"Shouting"? That is rich. Just explaining why I'm not interested in your SPECIFIC UK question above. Q: 11622
'gladrag' asked: "...Now spaz, can you remind us what the UK spend on F35 will cost including the rework to bring 78% of the fleet up to phase 4 post 2022 production standard."
Why the other chap chimed in beats me. SAD. I'm not interested in UK specific bollocks.

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 28th Nov 2018 at 22:32. Reason: format & add quote
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 18:39
  #11637 (permalink)  
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Poms versus Aussies: beer bottles at dawn
I'll get the popcorn.
On topic, Glad to see the Japanese go All In.
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Old 29th Nov 2018, 19:36
  #11638 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Lonewolf_50 View Post
On topic, Glad to see the Japanese go All In.
Tora! Tora! Tora!

At least the JSDF can afford to "replace the [F-15] planes that cannot be upgraded with the 100 F-35s". Further comparisons are invidious.
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Old 1st Dec 2018, 15:27
  #11639 (permalink)  
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Originally Posted by Harley Quinn View Post

Best wishes to everybody in the Lightning Force who has to overcome this divisive sh1t.
Amen to that!
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Old 5th Dec 2018, 12:46
  #11640 (permalink)  
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Another step forward...
F-35 Approved To Start Formal Initial Operational Test And Evaluation. (AviationWeek)

Lockheed Martin’s F-35 is set to begin later this month a long series of operational test and evaluation flights needed to prove the program is ready to enter full-rate production in fiscal year 2020, the Joint Program Office (JPO) confirmed to Aerospace DAILY Dec. 4. The approval ends a 16-month delay to the start of the formal initial operational test and evaluation (IOT&E) program, although the JPO launched a series of “pre-IOT&E” events earlier this year. “Formal (IOT&E) will start later this month,” a JPO spokesman said.

The new timing matches a prediction made nearly two years ago by Michael Gilmore, who was then the military’s director for the office of test and evaluation. In his final report to Congress in January 2017, Gilmore predicted that IOT&E would not begin until the F-35 meets unspecified readiness criteria at the end of 2018. At the time, IOT&E was scheduled to start in August 2017.

Until August 2018, the JPO had set Sept. 15 as the target for entering IOT&E. But Gilmore’s successor, Robert Behler, decided on Aug. 24 that formal testing wouldn’t start until Lockheed delivered a new software block dubbed “30R02.” That memo, which was disclosed by the Project on Government Oversight, said the software should be delivered by late November.

The newly approved timeline means a compressed schedule to complete IOT&E and fix any discrepancies before a planned full-rate production decision by the end of 2019.

The F-35 has been declared operated since 2015 and deployed in combat by the Israeli Air Force and the U.S. Marine Corps, but its operational effectiveness and suitability has not yet been thoroughly vetted by the military’s operational test community. The tests will focus on a wide range of criteria, including previous reports by Behler’s office about deficiencies with deploying weapons, such as the Raytheon AIM-120 Amraam.
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