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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 24th Jun 2018, 01:15
  #11481 (permalink)  
 
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So at the date of the fire, around 120 aircraft operating and ten years into the program the first aircraft is a write-off.

F/A-18 lost ten aircraft to crashes and fires, and possibly 40 F-16’s in the first ten years of flight.

Seems like a fairly reasonable safety record for the F-35.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 08:50
  #11482 (permalink)  
 
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So at the date of the fire, around 120 aircraft operating and ten years into the program the first aircraft is a write-off.

Incorrect. 2014 engine fire at Eglin. ("f-35 engine fire 2014" only gets 23 million Google hits, so it's pretty obscure.)

F/A-18 lost ten aircraft to crashes and fires, and possibly 40 F-16’s in the first ten years of flight.

In the same era, all aviation accident rates were higher than they are today. The F-35's record is good, but so far is hard to distinguish in a meaningful way from its contemporaries.

Please continue to take cheap shots, but at least try to make some sense rather than wasting oxygen.

Last edited by George K Lee; 24th Jun 2018 at 09:31.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 09:32
  #11483 (permalink)  
 
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Will that be the biggest military write off in history, if it is actually written off
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 09:33
  #11484 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Lee is correct - the F-35 programme has been remarkably safe to date

I suspect partly because most of the flying has been done by test pilots operating to carefully planned sorties and incremental performance goals and not front-line squadrons but even so it is an achievement.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 09:49
  #11485 (permalink)  
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Will that be the biggest military write off in history, if it is actually written off
In real terms I doubt it equates to writing off the entire Valiant bomber fleet - or for the USAF the loss of one of the two XB-70 Valkyrie bomber prototypes.
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 10:02
  #11486 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Wander00 View Post
Will that be the biggest military write off in history, if it is actually written off
Hardly. The B-2 Spirit that crashed on the runway shortly after takeoff from Andersen Air Force Base in Guam in 2008 was written off for $1.4bn but there's at least one example much closer to home:

Nimrod destruction cost taxpayer £3.4bn as MoD ignored 'cost implications', MPs say
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 12:36
  #11487 (permalink)  
 
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Big difference between W/O a single airframe (eg B-2) in a continuing programme/deployment and a whole programme (Nimrod, TSR-2 etc etc)
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Old 24th Jun 2018, 13:34
  #11488 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Heathrow Harry View Post
Big difference between W/O a single airframe (eg B-2) in a continuing programme/deployment and a whole programme (Nimrod, TSR-2 etc etc)
Agreed but still a defence budget military 'write-off' of eye-watering proportions.
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 08:16
  #11489 (permalink)  
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https://www.airforcetimes.com/news/y...pentagon-says/

With their F-35 program in limbo, Turkish pilots begin training in US

Turkish pilots and maintainers have arrived at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona to begin training on their first two F-35 fighter aircraft ― but the jets themselves will remain in U.S. custody for at least the next year, the Pentagon said Monday.

The jets were flown by Lockheed Martin last week to the Arizona base, which is home to the F-35 international partner training program. Turkey’s pilots will likely take their first flight in them in about a month, after they complete some initial classroom and simulator training, said Air Force Lt. Col. Mike Andrews, a Pentagon spokesman. Completion of full pilot training, which is a condition of Turkey assuming custody of the jets takes between one to two years, Andrews said.

But Turkey may not get the jets even after training is complete. The Senate passed language in its version of the 2019 defense authorization bill that would block the jets’ sale to Turkey based on U.S. concerns over Turkey’s purchase of a Russian S-400 long-range air and missile defense system. The House would still need to agree to the language in the final version of the bill.

Both options, to transfer the jet or block it, have potential negative consequences. If Turkey obtains custody, it could lead to Russia gaining sensitive technical information about the aircraft through the S-400 system. If the F-35 transfer is blocked, it could agitate the NATO ally to the point that use of Turkey’s Incirlik Air Base is restricted. The U.S. has depended on Incirlik to conduct its air campaign against the Islamic State in Syria.

“Following established agreements, the U.S. government maintains custody of the aircraft until custody is transferred to the partner,” said Army Col. Rob Manning, a Pentagon spokesman. “The U.S. government has not made a determination on Turkey’s future participation in the F-35 Joint Strike Fighter program.”........

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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 08:26
  #11490 (permalink)  
 
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What is the UK designation for the F35 - FA, GR, FGR etc?
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Old 3rd Jul 2018, 14:53
  #11491 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vortex_Generator View Post
What is the UK designation for the F35 - FA, GR, FGR etc?
F35b-FUBAR.
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Old 7th Jul 2018, 06:21
  #11492 (permalink)  
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https://www.reuters.com/article/us-i...-idUSKBN1JW28M

Italy says won't buy more F-35 fighter jets, may cut existing order

ROME (Reuters) - Italy will not buy more Lockheed Martin Corp F-35 fighter jets and is considering whether to stick to the order to which it is already committed, Defence Minister Elisabetta Trenta said on Friday.

Trenta comes from the anti-establishment 5-Star Movement which has always been critical of NATO member Italy’s order for 90 of the planes, saying the money could be better spent to boost welfare and help the sluggish economy. “We won’t buy any more F-35s,” Trenta said in a television interview with private broadcaster La 7. “We are assessing what to do regarding the contracts already in place.”

She spelled out several reasons to be cautious, saying that “strong financial penalties” could mean that “scrapping the order could cost us more than maintaining it.” She also cited benefits in terms of technology and research in Italy linked to the planes, as well as jobs that would be lost. However, Trenta said she saw merit in stretching out the purchases in order to free up resources for investments in European defense projects.

Some 5-Star officials said last year that Italy should cancel the order for the fighters altogether, but Trenta made clear she had reservations about this. “No one is hiding the fact we have always been critical ... In view of the existing contracts signed by the previous government, we are carrying out a careful assessment that exclusively considers the national interest,” she said.....
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Old 13th Jul 2018, 23:07
  #11493 (permalink)  
 
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Quite a lively display put on by the F-35A at RIAT today...


-RP
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Old 14th Jul 2018, 14:40
  #11494 (permalink)  
 
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Thanks Rhino that was a good looksie esp 02:52 ->..

meanwhile back in the real world..

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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 19:42
  #11495 (permalink)  
 
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Lasers anyone? Cue Dr. Evil...

F-35 Engine Upgrade Would Enable Directed Energy Weapons | Farnborough Airshow 2018 content from Aviation Week

Between the buzzwords in the article like a P&W president saying "“We have widened the aperture and are looking at adaptive elements across the engine,” a few interesting tidbits about potential power improvements with modifications for a "drop in" engine. More benefits could be done with external mods. Also talk of introducing a third stream for performance improvements. Seems they are wringing more out the donk and revising the already planned engine mods that were "Offered as a cost-neutral upgrade"!
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Old 23rd Jul 2018, 20:05
  #11496 (permalink)  
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If you thought cancelling the F136 saved money, just wait for the prices for the prices for the proposed upgrades to the F135.

It should also also be pointed out that one of the major problems already has heat dissipation. The laws of thermodynamics hold true and if you add more power you also produce more heat - and the only rema8njng way to lose it is to throw it out the back.....
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 07:20
  #11497 (permalink)  
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What a mess they’ve got themselves into on this program - task national security and compromise of the F-35 against Russian SAW systems - or watch the price go up and the program slip, again.....

https://www.defensenews.com/congress...-f-35-program/

WASHINGTON — Defense Secretary Jim Mattis is urging Congress not to bar Turkey from purchasing the Lockheed Martin F-35, arguing that to do so would trigger an international “supply chain disruption” resulting in delays and higher costs for the $100 million aircraft.

“At this time, I oppose removal of Turkey from the F-35 program,” Mattis said in a letter to lawmakers negotiating over the 2019 National Defense Authorization Act. Turkey, a NATO ally who has invested $1.25 billion in the program since 2002, plans to buy 100 aircraft. “If the Turkish supply chain was disrupted today, it would result in an aircraft production break, delaying delivery of 50-75 F-35s, and would take approximately 18-24 months to re-source parts and recover.”

Pentagon plans call for acquiring a total of 2,456 F-35s. Allies are expected to purchase hundreds of additional F-35s, and eight nations, including Japan, South Korea, Denmark and Norway, are cost-sharing partners in the program with the U.S.

The Senate’s defense policy and appropriations bills include language to delay sales of the jet to Turkey over its plans to buy the Russian S-400 air defense system and its detainment of American pastor Andrew Brunson.

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Old 24th Jul 2018, 11:24
  #11498 (permalink)  
 
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Rhino ---
Quite a lively display put on by the F-35A at RIAT today...
That was not the opinion of all of those ex and current aviators around me in the Aviation Club at RIAT on the 13th. In comparison with Typhoon, Rafale and F18, it underperformed noticeably, leaving us very underwhelmed. The general view was we'll have to wait and see (obviously). Comments from F35 pilots at Marham that there are many outstanding features that cannot yet be revealed will hopefully transpire.

In 1999, when I was trying to seduce the RAAF with Typhoon, in Canberra, the F35 team appeared on scene, asserting that their product would be significantly cheaper than Typhoon, far less time to IOC, and with far superior 5th generation capability. The first two of these have proved to be false (even taking all of Eurofighter history into account), with the latter far from substantiated at this point. But, we are committed, along with the carriers, and I hope (with a little trepidation) that the confidence of the Marham aircrew will be justified.

Last edited by jindabyne; 24th Jul 2018 at 18:54.
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Old 24th Jul 2018, 12:41
  #11499 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Vortex_Generator View Post
What is the UK designation for the F35 - FA, GR, FGR etc?
A mystery, as far as I can make out!

If the RAF's own website is anything to go by, they seem to have given up on any kind of coherent designation system anyway; the aircraft types are listed using a random mixture of civvy, US and UK nomenclature, e.g. "Airbus H135 Juno", "Atlas (A400M)", "E-3D", "Leonardo GrandNew", "Texan T MK1", "Tornado GR4"...
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Old 26th Jul 2018, 12:29
  #11500 (permalink)  
 
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Jump jets,err, jump.
However with a flourish the mod have instantly increased the operational ability of the current F35b at Marham.

quote

The UK’s new F-35 multi role combat jets

well let's see these multi roles in action then.
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meanwhile....Jump jets jump.

https://www.gov.uk/government/news/f-35-jets-use-new-vertical-landing-pads-at-raf-marham-for-the-first-time
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