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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 28th Mar 2018, 07:13
  #11221 (permalink)  
 
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Some critics are wearing out and given up the fight.

star-telegram.com/news/politics-government/article207050669.html
"Government watchdog groups criticise the program for missing deadlines, exceeding cost estimates and failing to live up to promises. But with little appetite left to slow the current program in Washington, they’re now focused on stopping future versions of the plane, rather than convincing Congress to reconsider its investment."

“I have no real illusion we’re going to effect any drastic changes to the F-35,” said Dan Grazier, a military fellow at the Project On Government Oversight, POGO and one of the program’s leading critics in Washington. “It’s next to impossible to generate enough political opposition to the program.”
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 08:54
  #11222 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lyneham Lad View Post
Good news! Now we just need a couple of modifications on the flattop...
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 09:29
  #11223 (permalink)  
 
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And how will the F35 stop terrorist attacks in the UK, or car bombs in Afghanistan from getting through?

Truth is the UK is fighting an ideology of militant islam from within and external threats which are slippery and hard to determine and define. Putin is not going to wage a conventional war against NATO but he will use proxy conflicts and techniques to put pressure on HMG.

There is no political appetite left among conservatives for Cameron style military adventures abroad and a coalition under Labour is hardly going to use military force to achieve its aims.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 16:02
  #11224 (permalink)  
 
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Better to have and not need ...........
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 22:48
  #11225 (permalink)  
 
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The critics may not have won the day - which may hardly be surprising when you start to think about what the pro-F-35 side has spent on lobbying, marketing, advertising, PR , trade shows &c - but it's a bit harder to overcome the realities of engineering, physics and economics.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...sts-aren-t-cut

This from the largest F-35 customer and (at this point) the organization with the largest F-35 force. Don't forget they already cut their peak planned rate by 25%, pushing the final deliveries into 2044. It does rather seem as if the more they see of the airplane the less they like it - and in the Bloomberg story, the Brits appear to be getting a bit jumpy too.
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Old 28th Mar 2018, 23:34
  #11226 (permalink)  
 
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Bigpants,

Just what on earth do you think Op Shader is all about? The RAF is flying Typhoon and Tornado strikes from Akrotiri hitting ISIS targets in Iraq and mainly now Syria daily, RAF flown Reapers are doing a similar thing from Kuwait, also daily. Some appetite...

And at home we combat extremism via the Police and intelligence folk, who are doing a terrific job of foiling and preventing attacks.
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 03:38
  #11227 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by George K Lee View Post
The critics may not have won the day - which may hardly be surprising when you start to think about what the pro-F-35 side has spent on lobbying, marketing, advertising, PR , trade shows &c - but it's a bit harder to overcome the realities of engineering, physics and economics.

https://www.bloomberg.com/news/artic...sts-aren-t-cut

This from the largest F-35 customer and (at this point) the organization with the largest F-35 force. Don't forget they already cut their peak planned rate by 25%, pushing the final deliveries into 2044. It does rather seem as if the more they see of the airplane the less they like it - and in the Bloomberg story, the Brits appear to be getting a bit jumpy too.
George...still trying hard. The title of the thread needs revising, as does the veracity/relevance of your posts.

The aircraft has been selected by a number of countries, all of whom have studied, one assumes, with fairly critical eyes, and knowledge.

It is a cutting edge weapon system, and as such, has continued to go ahead whatever you personally have thought, think, or say.

As for the people on the ‘front line’ or as near to one of them.

But then I know nothing...a Captain in the USAF flying one possibly might have a tad more grounds for appearing a... ‘fan-boy’ was it?
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 07:38
  #11228 (permalink)  
 
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I notice you don't mention costs....

and asking pilots? Oldest trick in the book - give some snazzy new hardware to fast jet pilots and ask them what they think after a few months. Do you REALLY think he's going to say anything other than Fab/Superb/Amazing???

later you find all the flaws............ and it's not just the USA IIRC the Soviet Union landed themselves with a couple of turkeys by doing the same thing
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 08:44
  #11229 (permalink)  
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US Navy plans to modify 45 more Super Hornets

The US Navy plans to modify 45 more Boeing F/A-18E/F Super Hornets in the next two years to increase the aircraft’s service life and capabilities, the US Naval Air Systems Command (NAVAIR) announced on 27 March. The potential contract will cover modifications to up to 15 aircraft in fiscal year 2019 and a maximum of 30 aircraft in FY2020, NAVAIR says. The modifications are designed to extend the fighter’s airframe life from 6,000-9,000h, adding up to 10 years of service.

Boeing will also convert existing Block II Super Hornets to a new Block III configuration starting in the early 2020s. This conversion will include adding an enhanced network capability, a longer range thanks to internal conformal fuel tanks, an advanced cockpit system, reduced radar signature and an enhanced communication system. Such updates are designed to keep the type effective in combat until at least into the early 2030s.

Boeing was on 28 February contracted to perform work on an initial four aircraft by April 2020, under a contract valued at $73.2 million. The award to modify 45 additional aircraft was an expected follow-on, and is part of an upgrade programme expected to last a decade. Boeing plans to modify between eight and 12 aircraft at its St Louis, Missouri site this year, before opening a second modification line in San Antonio, Texas, in 2019......
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 11:27
  #11230 (permalink)  
 
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Well, no, nobody signed up for this program in full knowledge of the costs.
Here's this from Bloomberg:

Stephen Lovegrove.... the permanent secretary of the Ministry of Defence, said he’d be discussing the “slightly unknown territory” of long-term costs in meetings with F-35 program officials....“I am constantly being asked by parliamentarians in the U.K. what the total cost is going to be and they are sometimes, understandably, a bit frustrated when I have to tell them, ‘At the moment nobody is entirely sure,’” Lovegrove said.


Did the UK have knowledge of this when they joined the program? Did anyone (including Korea)?
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 15:08
  #11231 (permalink)  
 
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Everyone believed (or hoped) the LM mantra that unit costs of production would be much lower than initial estimates
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 15:36
  #11232 (permalink)  
 
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Selective quoting by Bloomberg from a round table briefing is a tad on the naughty side. The full IHS Jane's quote from the meeting is :


UK officials are pleased with the current state of F-35B Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter acquisition and they are now starting to shift their focus to the costs of operating and maintaining the aircraft.

“We are very pleased with the development of the aircraft,” UK Permanent Secretary for the Ministry of Defence Stephen Lovegrove said on 27 March during a media roundtable discussion of UK defence programmes and policies.

“It’s doing everything we hoped it would do,” he said. “We are pleased to see the cost of acquisition coming down in line with the way we assumed it would.”
He added that now “the next area of intense interest is the sustainment and operational cost of the aircraft.”
He and other military officials are constantly being asked by members of Parliament what those potential costs are going to be for the 138 aircraft. “They are frustrated when I say at the moment no one’s entirely sure,” he said.
Historically, he said, the United Kingdom has been “OK at buying stuff”, but it has failed at sustaining or operating what it acquires in an affordable way. “We need to work very, very, very hard on that.”
He noted the United Kingdom will be operating and sustaining the aircraft until 2048. “We’ve got headroom in the programme,” he said. “But there is a degree of uncertainty.”

That uncertainty exists, he said, for all of the countries in the F-35 acquisition programme.

Doesn't mean everything is hunky-dory, but the sky ain't falling either....
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 16:00
  #11233 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Lyneham Lad View Post

Indeed, 140 "traps". No mention of the pilot neck strain issue that came up in earlier trials. Recall excessive head movements during the early part of the cat stroke during certain types of launch (lighter loads I believe). Has that been fixed?
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Old 29th Mar 2018, 19:39
  #11234 (permalink)  
 
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"It is a cutting edge weapon system"

In desperate need of billions of dollars of upgrades to match the operational capabilities of the few remaining legacy platforms, NEVER FORGET.
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 00:23
  #11235 (permalink)  
 
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The sky may not be falling, Mr Boffin, but the cloud-base keeps getting lower.

As we know, 70 per cent of weapon system costs are in O&S.

HH - That'e because everyone got Augustine wrong.
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 08:10
  #11236 (permalink)  
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Air Force Risks Losing Third of F-35s on Upkeep Costs

The U.S. Air Force may have to cut its purchases of Lockheed Martin Corp.’s F-35 by a third if it can’t find ways to reduce operations and support costs by as much as 38 percent over a decade, according to an internal analysis. The shortfall would force the service to subtract 590 of the fighter jets from the 1,763 it plans to order, the Air Force office charged with evaluating the F-35’s impact on operations and budgets said in an assessment obtained by Bloomberg News.

While the Defense Department has said it has gained control over costs for developing and producing a fleet of 2,456 F-35s for the Air Force, Navy and Marine Corps -- now projected at $406 billion -- the internal analysis underscores the current and looming challenges of maintaining and operating the warplanes. It may cost as much as $1.1 trillion to keep the F-35s flying and maintained through 2070, according to the current estimate from the Pentagon’s independent cost unit......

The analysis represents the first public disclosure of the potential impact if support costs aren’t reduced. Using figures developed in 2012, the Air Force faces an annual bill of about $3.8 billion a year that must be cut back over the coming decade.

The Air Force analysis doesn’t represent anything close to a final decision, according to spokeswoman Ann Stefanek. The potential reduction in aircraft was a “staff assessment on aircraft affordability. It’s premature for the Air Force to consider buying fewer aircraft at this time,” Stefanek said.......
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 10:02
  #11237 (permalink)  
 
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Hey!! That's LM's future profits they're attacking............... positively Un-American
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Old 30th Mar 2018, 20:58
  #11238 (permalink)  
 
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F-35: Still No Finish Line in Sight. 17 years in development, over budget, not ready.

F-35: Still No Finish Line in Sight
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Old 7th Apr 2018, 10:42
  #11240 (permalink)  
 
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Legality?

Originally Posted by pr00ne View Post
Bigpants,

Just what on earth do you think Op Shader is all about? The RAF is flying Typhoon and Tornado strikes from Akrotiri hitting ISIS targets in Iraq and mainly now Syria daily, RAF flown Reapers are doing a similar thing from Kuwait, also daily. Some appetite...

And at home we combat extremism via the Police and intelligence folk, who are doing a terrific job of foiling and preventing attacks.
Could you explain to assorted readers the legal basis for bombing Syria from Cyprus? Do you seriously believe a Labour Government led by Jezza is going to condone or continue to bomb Syria using the F35 from a Carrier or Akrotiri?

The times they are a changing....in the USA Trump is talking about withdrawal from Syria.
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