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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 26th Jul 2017, 13:32
  #10681 (permalink)  
 
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With Red Flag 2017-3 ending shortly, the USAF and USMC F-35 types that have been taking part will soon be providing some feedback for the UK on how to split the forthcoming buy.
I can't see anything in the link you have provided that relates to briefing the UK on any split buy.
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 14:51
  #10682 (permalink)  
 
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Interestingly, even though it will probably not embed simulated shipborne or remote base operations (that are what the F-35Bs, in spite of the limited range and internal weapons capacity, was somehow designed to conduct) the Marine Corps will expand the role of the 5th Gen. aircraft in RF, covering also EW and CSAR support tasks.
A RF mission is usually made of 20-25 adversaries: not only aircraft, but also ground-to-air threats, moving and unknown threats etc. In other words, the old fixed scenario has become much more “dynamic” requiring a real-time “combat battlefield” coordinator.

Therefore, the most recent RF scenarios aim to develop the ability to fuse all the combat capabilities. In this context, the F-35 brings to the package the ability to penetrate deep into the most complex and “unknown” environments providing the “overall control” of the battlefield. The F-35, as well as any other modern aircraft with similar sensor fusing ability, can also work in a complementary fashion with the 4th generation fighters, sharing the information with all the other “players” while providing its own amount of fire power to the team.

Stealth technology (capability to survive and operate effectively where others cannot) combined with 5th generation features (i.e. superior information management), were pivotal to achieve the overall RF’s mini-campaign results.

But no SpecOps involvement, Terrorist Attacks....Airborne Air Field seizures allowed by Opposing forces?

Just a very narrowly designed scenario that affords the Good Guys a chance to test their new kit and tactics in a controlled environment?

Are the Opposition allowed to wage war based upon known and suspected capabilities of potential enemies like the Russians, Chinese, and North Koreans or combinations of potential combinations of enemy forces where the "Bad Guys" might prevail no matter how the Friendlies operate?

I remember when Exercises were scripted and we found out how bad an idea that was....then there was far more ability for the "Bad Guys" to be....Bad Guys with freedom to be good at what they did and that model paid off handsomely.

As Red Flag morphs......is it regressing in seeking a desired outcome over being a genuine test of the gear and crews to determine weaknesses and failures?
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 16:46
  #10683 (permalink)  
 
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IOC aircraft will be 3F soon whilst everyone is figuring out how to operate the F-35s IF they are not 'hypoxic'. Also several articles (including in UK) have made it clear only some F-35 capabilities can be exercised in networked FMS Full Mission Simulators due to secret capabilities not for 'outside viewers' in exercise areas.

Story that goes with USAF F-35 OBOGS investigation video here: Wright-Patt researchers hunt for clues of stealth fighter problem


Last edited by SpazSinbad; 27th Jul 2017 at 01:34. Reason: add secretsauce then OBOGS
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 23:36
  #10684 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
I can't see anything in the link you have provided that relates to briefing the UK on any split buy.
Translation and comprehension attempted.

Since the lessons learned from the exercise will be shared, the interoperability of the two different types with the other participants, and the methods and possibly different practices of the two operators USAF/USMC, will provide those in the choice of type for the MOD with a greater knowledge to base how that split might go between RAF/FAA.

Was that really required?
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Old 26th Jul 2017, 23:45
  #10685 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
But no SpecOps involvement, Terrorist Attacks....Airborne Air Field seizures allowed by Opposing forces?

Just a very narrowly designed scenario that affords the Good Guys a chance to test their new kit and tactics in a controlled environment?

Are the Opposition allowed to wage war based upon known and suspected capabilities of potential enemies like the Russians, Chinese, and North Koreans or combinations of potential combinations of enemy forces where the "Bad Guys" might prevail no matter how the Friendlies operate?

I remember when Exercises were scripted and we found out how bad an idea that was....then there was far more ability for the "Bad Guys" to be....Bad Guys with freedom to be good at what they did and that model paid off handsomely.

As Red Flag morphs......is it regressing in seeking a desired outcome over being a genuine test of the gear and crews to determine weaknesses and failures?
Guessing that if folks scripted your exercises that way, they may well do that in Red Flag, that idea obviously not being new.

The idea of these hugely complex and expensive exercises is to get the maximum out of them rather than just ‘good results.’

Integrity is generally a given factor though it is acknowledged that some boondoggling does take place and has done...forever.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 02:32
  #10686 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by SASless View Post
But no SpecOps involvement, Terrorist Attacks....Airborne Air Field seizures allowed by Opposing forces?

Just a very narrowly designed scenario that affords the Good Guys a chance to test their new kit and tactics in a controlled environment?

Are the Opposition allowed to wage war based upon known and suspected capabilities of potential enemies like the Russians, Chinese, and North Koreans or combinations of potential combinations of enemy forces where the "Bad Guys" might prevail no matter how the Friendlies operate?

I remember when Exercises were scripted and we found out how bad an idea that was....then there was far more ability for the "Bad Guys" to be....Bad Guys with freedom to be good at what they did and that model paid off handsomely.

As Red Flag morphs......is it regressing in seeking a desired outcome over being a genuine test of the gear and crews to determine weaknesses and failures?

Very good point! French Rafael becoming the burglar soaking up the frequencies, Brit Tiffies being reigned in after embarrassing the hosts in the desert heat....
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 11:28
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Believe it or not - Red Flag without EUROs - but I digress....

B-2, F-22, F-35A and F-35B in First Red Flag Together 27 Jul 2017 TIRPAK
"...The 10 F-35Bs that deployed were a mix of aircraft with the 2B and 3i software, Vaughan said. They were “really the same” in the way they operated, and the commonality and software stability was “extremely good,” Vaughan said....

Fournie reported there was a Virtual/Constructive element of the game that posited large numbers of aircraft “fighting” in the space outside the Nellis complex, in order to tax the Air Operations Center and make scenarios larger and more complex. Because the F-22 still cannot transmit data over a secure data link to the F-35 and “fourth gen” aircraft, communications continue to be made over “secure voice,” officials said. The F-22 can receive data from the F-35 via the Link 16 datalink."
http://www.airforcemag.com/Features/...-Together.aspx

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 27th Jul 2017 at 11:34. Reason: add first para
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 11:31
  #10688 (permalink)  
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
I can't see anything in the link you have provided that relates to briefing the UK on any split buy.
Translation and comprehension attempted.

Since the lessons learned from the exercise will be shared, the interoperability of the two different types with the other participants, and the methods and possibly different practices of the two operators USAF/USMC, will provide those in the choice of type for the MOD with a greater knowledge to base how that split might go between RAF/FAA.

Was that really required?
Ah, so when you said "...the USAF and USMC F-35 types that have been taking part will soon be providing some feedback for the UK on how to split the forthcoming buy", you didn't read anywhere in the story that this is what is going happen, you just inferred from the story that this is what you think is going to happen. Thanks for the clarification.
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Old 27th Jul 2017, 22:36
  #10689 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by melmothtw View Post
Ah, so when you said "...the USAF and USMC F-35 types that have been taking part will soon be providing some feedback for the UK on how to split the forthcoming buy", you didn't read anywhere in the story that this is what is going happen, you just inferred from the story that this is what you think is going to happen. Thanks for the clarification.
Aah indeed, pray do tell, what you think is logical/likely/probable/ with the present situation of the UK being a major partners/customers, and British crews participating in the development of the F-35? But to assuage the critical quibbler in you, I should have qualified this with 'it will probably’ 'it is likely that’ ‘perhaps this might’. I somehow doubt that this will satisfy as a number of your post indicate but it will have to do.
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Old 28th Jul 2017, 03:49
  #10690 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by Brat View Post
Aah indeed, pray do tell, what you think is logical/likely/probable/ with the present situation of the UK being a major partners/customers, and British crews in participation.
Fewer and fewer airframes for the spend.
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Old 28th Jul 2017, 12:17
  #10691 (permalink)  
 
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It certainly seems that in this release the integration is going well between the two services at Nellis.
https://www.dvidshub.net/news/241971...grate-red-flag

Perhaps with a better than expected force multiplication with existing assets there may well be fewer airframes needed, if indeed that ever were the case.

Then again there will always be those in, or in a future Government who feel we do not need the armed forces at all.
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Old 1st Aug 2017, 21:40
  #10692 (permalink)  
 
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Allo Allo Allo New by 2020 Italian Navy LHD 'TRIESTE' with 6 F-35Bs & some helos. TWIN Islands! What were they thinking? Must be a feature NOT a bug & no skijumping?

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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 06:39
  #10693 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by glad rag View Post
Very good point! French Rafael becoming the burglar soaking up the frequencies, Brit Tiffies being reigned in after embarrassing the hosts in the desert heat....
Oh dear. Presumably by Rafael you mean Rafale, by Tiffies you mean Typhoons and by reigned you mean reined.

Yes it is a slow day in the office but I was bored.
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 09:03
  #10694 (permalink)  
 
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Does anyone who isn't either a sptter or a MS Flight Sim geek refer to the Typhoon as a 'Tiffie'?
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 09:13
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Originally Posted by BEagle View Post
Does anyone who isn't either a sptter or a MS Flight Sim geek refer to the Typhoon as a 'Tiffie'?
The same people that call a Tornado a Tonka I would imagine
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Old 3rd Aug 2017, 17:50
  #10696 (permalink)  
 
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Originally Posted by spectre150 View Post

The same people that call a Tornado a Tonka I would imagine
Wow that is SO TTTE.

Arr, them were the days, working 6 days a week and a new pair of slippers hanging in the ablutions on a Monday morning....
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Old 4th Aug 2017, 01:16
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Breathe with me - in your own time - COMMENCE!
Navy Unit Joins USAF Human Performance Wing for Hypoxia Research 04 Aug 2017 Brian Everstine
"A Navy research unit has joined the Air Force’s 711th Human Performance Wing to help research what is causing “hypoxia-like” symptoms during flight. The Naval Medical Research Unit-Dayton is working with the wing at Wright-Patterson AFB, Ohio, to solve the problem. USAF F-35 pilots at Luke AFB, Ariz., have experienced physiological episodes during flight and the Navy is dealing with similar instances in its T-45 aircraft, along with some F-18 Hornets...." http://www.airforcemag.com/DRArchive...ke-Issues.aspx
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Old 9th Aug 2017, 09:33
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US Army interest in F-35 overhead but not as one may expect.

U.S. Army Eyes F-35 As Missile Defense Sensor 08 Aug 2017 James Drew

U.S. Army Eyes F-35 As Missile Defense Sensor | Defense content from Aviation Week
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Old 9th Aug 2017, 09:52
  #10699 (permalink)  
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If they want a missile sensor they'd be better off with a UAV like the RQ-180. All round stealth, far higher orbit with a much larger footprint and 24 hours TOT as opposed to 1 to 2.
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Old 9th Aug 2017, 10:06
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Link is to the Russian Sputnik report. There are Washington military blogs reporting the same thing, but they are all subscription.

Upgrade is required because the F-35 design is so old and computers advance so fast, even a car is now far more powerful. Tempus fugit.

https://sputniknews.com/military/201...oduction-plan/

https://www.motor1.com/news/174162/f...ng-power-f-35/
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