F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
Negotiations between the DoD and Lockheed Martin to definitise both the Lot 9 and Lot 10 production contracts have dragged on for a number of months. With these negotiations failing to come up with an agreed price, it was reported that the DoD had imposed its own pricing on Lot 9 and is likely to have also done the same for Lot 10. Though not an exact science, dividing the contract value (including separate previously disclosed long-lead awards amounting to USD1.4 billion) by the number of aircraft gave the Lot 9 a unit cost of approximately USD131 million (without engine), while doing the same for Lot 10 (long-lead items at USD920 million) gives a considerably lower unit cost of approximately USD90 million (without engine).
This figure is close to the USD80-85 million by 2019 target that is the goal of the Blueprint for Affordability effort, and is likely to be significantly lower once the programmatic costs of the deal are removed.
This figure is close to the USD80-85 million by 2019 target that is the goal of the Blueprint for Affordability effort, and is likely to be significantly lower once the programmatic costs of the deal are removed.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Planet Claire
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
IMHO this jet is not what's needed.
The kind of enemy we face these days is not the kind of enemy that the F-35 is designed to fight.But that's the nature of these things- we buy kit that would have helped us in the LAST war we fought.
We'd do better with larger numbers of less sophisticated and expensive aircraft.
It's all terribly obvious, but clearly nobody has the balls to grasp the nettle and pull the plug.
Oh well, the longer they leave it, the messier it's going to be.
Sounds like Canada has wised up though, and I bet they're not the last...
The kind of enemy we face these days is not the kind of enemy that the F-35 is designed to fight.But that's the nature of these things- we buy kit that would have helped us in the LAST war we fought.
We'd do better with larger numbers of less sophisticated and expensive aircraft.
It's all terribly obvious, but clearly nobody has the balls to grasp the nettle and pull the plug.
Oh well, the longer they leave it, the messier it's going to be.
Sounds like Canada has wised up though, and I bet they're not the last...
Join Date: Jan 2003
Location: Norfolk
Posts: 1,057
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
and the UK is stuck with it 'Good or Bad', 'Like it or not.................' as without it we have no aircraft to put on the carriers.....................or anywhere else for that matter - eggs in one basket...........discuss......
Arc
Arc
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: England's green and pleasant land
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
AtomKraft,
You write as if you know what the "real" threat is.....
So then, oh Nostradamus, please write to the Pentagon and MODs of all the other countries and tell them their Intelligence and War Gaming have all been wrong and for nought. Good luck with that!
By the way, the F-35, T45; QE Class carriers etc, are not built for the last war. They are designed with the best guess of what the next war might feasibly throw at us. Judging tomorrow based on today is folly. Trends dear boy, trends. "Tomorrow" is about having the right information on which to act.
You write as if you know what the "real" threat is.....
So then, oh Nostradamus, please write to the Pentagon and MODs of all the other countries and tell them their Intelligence and War Gaming have all been wrong and for nought. Good luck with that!
By the way, the F-35, T45; QE Class carriers etc, are not built for the last war. They are designed with the best guess of what the next war might feasibly throw at us. Judging tomorrow based on today is folly. Trends dear boy, trends. "Tomorrow" is about having the right information on which to act.
Join Date: Nov 2012
Location: Planet Claire
Posts: 581
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MSOCS
Well, do those advocating the F-35 know? I don't think so!
I takes so long to complete these programs that by the time the finished article is ready, the damn things been in development for twenty years and the whole geo political landscape has changed around it- the things it was meant to do no longer need done.
We get ever more complex and expensive kit, that all has to be paid for. Great for Lockheed- but not quite so good for the rest of us. It's all ready, but who is it meant to fight?
I think we'd do better with more soldiers, better vehicles, some more ships, a decent but less sophisticated mud mover for CAS and a good pointy jet for AD.
The F-35 is a classic example of a plane that's designed to do a lot of things, but none of them very well.
It won't be a great mud mover, it won't be a great fighter.
The military get it VERY wrong sometimes. I think they've over reached themselves with this thing.
At least the US Navy had the balls to pull the plug on the A-12.
This program has grown it's own legs politically and one hears all sorts of economic reasons why this country or that should 'stay with the program' but it's never because it's such a brilliant aircraft.
The truth is that it's just not a very good warplane- IMHO of course!
Well, do those advocating the F-35 know? I don't think so!
I takes so long to complete these programs that by the time the finished article is ready, the damn things been in development for twenty years and the whole geo political landscape has changed around it- the things it was meant to do no longer need done.
We get ever more complex and expensive kit, that all has to be paid for. Great for Lockheed- but not quite so good for the rest of us. It's all ready, but who is it meant to fight?
I think we'd do better with more soldiers, better vehicles, some more ships, a decent but less sophisticated mud mover for CAS and a good pointy jet for AD.
The F-35 is a classic example of a plane that's designed to do a lot of things, but none of them very well.
It won't be a great mud mover, it won't be a great fighter.
The military get it VERY wrong sometimes. I think they've over reached themselves with this thing.
At least the US Navy had the balls to pull the plug on the A-12.
This program has grown it's own legs politically and one hears all sorts of economic reasons why this country or that should 'stay with the program' but it's never because it's such a brilliant aircraft.
The truth is that it's just not a very good warplane- IMHO of course!
"The F-35 is a classic example of a plane that's designed to do a lot of things, but none of them very well."
Rubbish. It's so d**n easy to tear down a program, with no firm data, only pessimistic suppositions. People will listen to what tickles their dears, no wonder Trump was elected.
Rubbish. It's so d**n easy to tear down a program, with no firm data, only pessimistic suppositions. People will listen to what tickles their dears, no wonder Trump was elected.
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Lockheed Martin Gets $1.3 Billion Advance for U.S. F-35 Jets
Lockheed Martin lmt subsidiary Lockheed Martin Aeronautics has received an interim payment of $1.28 billion for its 10th contract for F-35 fighter jets, the Pentagon said. It said in a statement the payment was to ensure there would be no major production delays while the final terms of the contract for 90 F-35 Lightning II jets up to a maximum of $7.19 billion were being finalized.
The award is a modification to a previous Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) contract and comes after negotiations on the ninth contract for F-35 jets concluded. The U.S. Department of Defense will continue to negotiate the specifics of LRIP 10 to finalize the contract, a spokesman for the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) said.
This order includes 76 F-35A aircraft for the U.S. Air Force, Non-U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) participants and foreign military sales customers; 12 F-35B aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps and non-U.S. DoD Participants and two F-35C aircraft for the U.S. Navy.........
Lockheed Martin lmt subsidiary Lockheed Martin Aeronautics has received an interim payment of $1.28 billion for its 10th contract for F-35 fighter jets, the Pentagon said. It said in a statement the payment was to ensure there would be no major production delays while the final terms of the contract for 90 F-35 Lightning II jets up to a maximum of $7.19 billion were being finalized.
The award is a modification to a previous Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) contract and comes after negotiations on the ninth contract for F-35 jets concluded. The U.S. Department of Defense will continue to negotiate the specifics of LRIP 10 to finalize the contract, a spokesman for the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) said.
This order includes 76 F-35A aircraft for the U.S. Air Force, Non-U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) participants and foreign military sales customers; 12 F-35B aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps and non-U.S. DoD Participants and two F-35C aircraft for the U.S. Navy.........
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Lockheed Martin Gets $1.3 Billion Advance for U.S. F-35 Jets
Lockheed Martin lmt subsidiary Lockheed Martin Aeronautics has received an interim payment of $1.28 billion for its 10th contract for F-35 fighter jets, the Pentagon said. It said in a statement the payment was to ensure there would be no major production delays while the final terms of the contract for 90 F-35 Lightning II jets up to a maximum of $7.19 billion were being finalized.
The award is a modification to a previous Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) contract and comes after negotiations on the ninth contract for F-35 jets concluded. The U.S. Department of Defense will continue to negotiate the specifics of LRIP 10 to finalize the contract, a spokesman for the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) said.
This order includes 76 F-35A aircraft for the U.S. Air Force, Non-U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) participants and foreign military sales customers; 12 F-35B aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps and non-U.S. DoD Participants and two F-35C aircraft for the U.S. Navy.........
Lockheed Martin lmt subsidiary Lockheed Martin Aeronautics has received an interim payment of $1.28 billion for its 10th contract for F-35 fighter jets, the Pentagon said. It said in a statement the payment was to ensure there would be no major production delays while the final terms of the contract for 90 F-35 Lightning II jets up to a maximum of $7.19 billion were being finalized.
The award is a modification to a previous Low Rate Initial Production (LRIP) contract and comes after negotiations on the ninth contract for F-35 jets concluded. The U.S. Department of Defense will continue to negotiate the specifics of LRIP 10 to finalize the contract, a spokesman for the F-35 Joint Program Office (JPO) said.
This order includes 76 F-35A aircraft for the U.S. Air Force, Non-U.S. Department of Defense (DoD) participants and foreign military sales customers; 12 F-35B aircraft for the U.S. Marine Corps and non-U.S. DoD Participants and two F-35C aircraft for the U.S. Navy.........
Anybody?
Last edited by glad rag; 26th Nov 2016 at 10:25.
Join Date: Mar 2010
Location: UK on a crosswind
Posts: 262
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Please correct me if I'm wrong .... but isn't opening the weapons bay to cool things off whilst en route to a strike going to make the aircraft ever so slightly er.... unstealthy? And vulnerable?
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: England's green and pleasant land
Posts: 697
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Royalistflyer, don't believe that utter horse-tripe. Russian internet propaganda, just like most of the drivel spouted on this forum about an aircraft people know nothing about.
There's an amusing level of politburo posting here that tries hard, yet achieves little!
Keep it up Vladimir! The jet will kick your boys' asses when the fit hits the shan.
There's an amusing level of politburo posting here that tries hard, yet achieves little!
Keep it up Vladimir! The jet will kick your boys' asses when the fit hits the shan.
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
F-35 Program Obituary..
"Due to inadequate leadership and management on the part of both the Program Office and the contractor, the program has failed to develop..?
http://aviationweek.com/site-files/a...l%20Report.pdf
"The following details discoveries in F-35A flight sciences testing:
- Testing to characterize the thermal environment of the weapons bays demonstrated that temperatures become excessive during ground operations in high ambient temperature conditions and in-flight under conditions of high speed and at altitudes below 25,000 feet. As a result, during ground operations, fleet pilots are restricted from keeping the weapons bay doors closed for more than 10 cumulative minutes prior to take-off when internal stores are loaded and the outside air temperature is above 90 degrees Fahrenheit. In flight, the 10-minute restriction also applies when flying at airspeeds equal to or greater than 500 knots at altitudes below 5,000 feet; 550 knots at altitudes between 5,000 and 15,000 feet; and 600 knots at altitudes between 15,000 and 25,000 feet. Above 25,000 feet, there are no restrictions associated with the weapons bay doors being closed, regardless of temperature. The time limits can be reset by flying 10 minutes outside of the restricted conditions (i.e., slower or at higher altitudes). This will require pilots to develop tactics to work around the restricted envelope; however, threat and/or weather conditions may make completing the mission difficult or impossible using the work around.
- Testing to characterize the vibrational and acoustic environment of the weapons bays demonstrated that stresses induced by the environment were out of the flight qualification parameters for both the AIM-120 missile and the flight termination system (telemetry unit attached to the missile body required to satisfy range safety requirements for terminating a live missile in a flight test). This resulted in reduced service life of the missile and potential failure of the telemetered missile termination system required for range safety."
of course there may well be NO evidence of B model overheating as the testing for this variant may have been ****canned either due to being another inconvenient truth or they just never got round to it ...
http://aviationweek.com/site-files/a...l%20Report.pdf
"The following details discoveries in F-35A flight sciences testing:
- Testing to characterize the thermal environment of the weapons bays demonstrated that temperatures become excessive during ground operations in high ambient temperature conditions and in-flight under conditions of high speed and at altitudes below 25,000 feet. As a result, during ground operations, fleet pilots are restricted from keeping the weapons bay doors closed for more than 10 cumulative minutes prior to take-off when internal stores are loaded and the outside air temperature is above 90 degrees Fahrenheit. In flight, the 10-minute restriction also applies when flying at airspeeds equal to or greater than 500 knots at altitudes below 5,000 feet; 550 knots at altitudes between 5,000 and 15,000 feet; and 600 knots at altitudes between 15,000 and 25,000 feet. Above 25,000 feet, there are no restrictions associated with the weapons bay doors being closed, regardless of temperature. The time limits can be reset by flying 10 minutes outside of the restricted conditions (i.e., slower or at higher altitudes). This will require pilots to develop tactics to work around the restricted envelope; however, threat and/or weather conditions may make completing the mission difficult or impossible using the work around.
- Testing to characterize the vibrational and acoustic environment of the weapons bays demonstrated that stresses induced by the environment were out of the flight qualification parameters for both the AIM-120 missile and the flight termination system (telemetry unit attached to the missile body required to satisfy range safety requirements for terminating a live missile in a flight test). This resulted in reduced service life of the missile and potential failure of the telemetered missile termination system required for range safety."
of course there may well be NO evidence of B model overheating as the testing for this variant may have been ****canned either due to being another inconvenient truth or they just never got round to it ...
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,575
Likes: 0
Received 51 Likes
on
45 Posts
'glad rag' said above: (lovely use of 'may' BTW)
Page 45 of same PDF quoted above:
"of course there may well be NO evidence of B model overheating as the testing for this variant may have been ****canned either due to being another inconvenient truth or they just never got round to it ... "
"• The following details discoveries in F-35B flight sciences testing:
- Testing to characterize the thermal environment of the weapons bays demonstrated that temperatures become excessive during ground operations in high ambient temperature conditions. As a result, during ground operations, fleet pilots are restricted from keeping the weapons bay doors closed for more than 10 cumulative minutes prior to take-off when internal stores are loaded and the outside air temperature is above 90 degrees Fahrenheit. Time with the weapons bay doors closed in flight is currently not restricted."
- Testing to characterize the thermal environment of the weapons bays demonstrated that temperatures become excessive during ground operations in high ambient temperature conditions. As a result, during ground operations, fleet pilots are restricted from keeping the weapons bay doors closed for more than 10 cumulative minutes prior to take-off when internal stores are loaded and the outside air temperature is above 90 degrees Fahrenheit. Time with the weapons bay doors closed in flight is currently not restricted."
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,575
Likes: 0
Received 51 Likes
on
45 Posts
'glad rag' please produce evidence of the cause of the F-35B in the circuit recent fire. Also I like the way the first sentence you used in the abovementioned quote was transposed from the Verification Simulation (VSim) opening sentence on page 56.
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,575
Likes: 0
Received 51 Likes
on
45 Posts
Israel increases order for F-35 fighter jets to 50 27 Nov 2016 (Reporting by Ari Rabinovitch; Editing by Greg Mahlich)
Israel increases order for F-35 fighter jets to 50 | Reuters
“Nov 27 Israel's security cabinet on Sunday approved the purchase of an additional 17 Lockheed Martin F-35 stealth fighter jets, bringing its total number on order to 50...."
Join Date: Jul 2008
Location: Australia OZ
Age: 75
Posts: 2,575
Likes: 0
Received 51 Likes
on
45 Posts
I can remember one chap complaining that the flat deck was never moving in previous DTs. There is one pic showing the F-35B manned, engine running and chained with a seven degree roll. But anyway....
F-35B Completes DT-III on USS America 27 Nov 2016 Todd Miller
F-35B Completes DT-III on USS America 27 Nov 2016 Todd Miller
"...Onboard maintenance activities involved the entire replacement of an engine, driveshaft and lift fan on one of the VMX-1 aircraft. After replacement, the VMX-1 aircraft was flown off the deck.
USMC VMX-1 Commanding Officer, Col. George “Sack” Rowell, noted that the F-35B will equal or exceed the shipborne operational capabilities of the AV-8B Harrier in high sea states. Flight operations took place in winds of up to 47 knots from various angles, a deck roll of 5° and deck pitch of 3°. Maintenance work was accomplished (albeit with challenges) while the ship was rolling 9°!..."
USMC VMX-1 Commanding Officer, Col. George “Sack” Rowell, noted that the F-35B will equal or exceed the shipborne operational capabilities of the AV-8B Harrier in high sea states. Flight operations took place in winds of up to 47 knots from various angles, a deck roll of 5° and deck pitch of 3°. Maintenance work was accomplished (albeit with challenges) while the ship was rolling 9°!..."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 28th Nov 2016 at 00:18. Reason: fix pic URL
Paveway IV dropped from F-35B
Flight Global article
Snip:-
Snip:-
Raytheon Systems' Paveway IV laser-guided bomb has been dropped from a Lockheed Martin F-35B, paving the way for integration of the weapon on the UK’s future Joint Strike Fighter fleet.
glad rag, the news report seem to be factual, but that picture made me shake my head. (I don't think an F-35 can hold that many bombs internally ... ???)
Which makes me ask: who went put that image in there, and why?
EDIT: Answered by MSOCS, it's time lapse and that's just one bomb.
oops, not the first time such an image has been presented. No soup for the Lone wolf. 
Which makes me ask: who went put that image in there, and why?
EDIT: Answered by MSOCS, it's time lapse and that's just one bomb.
oops, not the first time such an image has been presented. No soup for the Lone wolf.
Last edited by Lonewolf_50; 6th Dec 2016 at 19:41.