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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

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F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 4th Oct 2016, 17:58
  #9841 (permalink)  
 
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Don't forget the old chestnut of only 6 F-35Bs on board... when this has been debunked for years. The absolute MINIMUM number will be 12 aircraft, and probably 24 when deployed to a combat zone. Individual sqns will have 12 aircraft each, are they suggesting only HALF a sqn will go to sea? Did that ever happen with the Harriers? Don't think so...
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Old 4th Oct 2016, 22:05
  #9842 (permalink)  
 
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'sharpend' said: "...[F-35B on CVF?] cannot launch with full weapons load...". This is wot a RAF Chappie said:
“...Onboard the Queen Elizabeth aircraft carriers, the aircraft would take off at its maximum weight of nearly 27 tonnes using a UK-developed ski-jump,...” 2204.62lbs = 1 tonne 59,535lbs = 27 tonnes [Wing Commander Hackett explained in: ETS winter 2012_13 LIGHTNING STRIKES]
http://content.yudu.com/A219ee/ETSWi...sources/20.htm
_____________________________
"...[F-35B] maximum weapon payload of 6 Paveway IV, 2 AIM-120C AMRAAM, 2 AIM-132 ASRAAM & a missionised 25mm gun pod..."
http://www.raf.mod.uk/equipment/f35j...ikefighter.cfm
_________________________________

Ship Shape — F-35/QEC simulator Sep 2014 PAUL E EDEN
"300 Take-off run in feet from QEC for lightly loaded F-35B
800 Take-off run in feet from QEC for fully loaded F-35B
AEROSPACE TESTING INTERNATIONAL Magazine September 2014
___________________________

Pete Kosogorin BAE test pilot: (start 37 seconds) "...800 feet with full operational load [F-35B CVF off Ski Jump]..."
https://youtu.be/gxezKrL6apQ?t=37 OR

'MSOCS' mentioned SHOL - here is the F-35B DT-I diagram for USS Wasp. Meanwhile LM has produced a new F-35 PR video....




Last edited by SpazSinbad; 5th Oct 2016 at 00:13. Reason: add quote + Kosogorin Video + 'payload' quotes
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Old 5th Oct 2016, 02:58
  #9843 (permalink)  
 
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Ah well sounds like they will be going in harm's way soon, guess we will have all the answers then.
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Old 5th Oct 2016, 08:21
  #9844 (permalink)  
 
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Maybe gr, maybe. If I had to fly into harm's way again, I'd choose an F-35 over anything else out there flying today; save Raptor, which is US only.
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Old 5th Oct 2016, 12:39
  #9845 (permalink)  
 
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MSOCS, if I had to fly in to harm's way tomorrow, given the condition my back's in, I'd not be fit to climb into a cockpit. I'd have to fly into harm's way using a Reaper, preferably loaded with GBU-12's. That way, when the bladder signals to me that it's got an overpressure, I'd not have to use a piddle pack.
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Old 7th Oct 2016, 01:08
  #9846 (permalink)  
 
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'sharpend' mentioned a letter... here 'tis.

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Old 12th Oct 2016, 16:06
  #9847 (permalink)  
 
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Norway Wants 12 More F-35s

The Norwegian government has requested authorization to buy 12 additional Lockheed Martin F-35s in its 2017 national budget, allowing the country to participate in the last two years of a proposed international block buy.

Under the budget proposal, rolled out Oct. 6, Norway wants to order six more F-35s in Low-Rate Initial Production (LRIP) lot 13 and another six in LRIP 14, Norwegian ministry of defense spokesman Endre Lunde told Aviation Week. If the proposal is approved, it would bring Norway’s number of approved F-35s to 40.

The blueprint would allow Norway to participate in the second and third years of a proposed international block buy, beginning in 2019 and covering lots 13 and 14. The government estimates the block buy will yield 385 million Norwegian Krone in savings, or about $48 million, Lunde said. The F-35 international partners are considering moving forward with a block buy beginning in 2018, covering LRIPs 12 through 14. Joint Program Office Chief Lt. Gen. Christopher Bogdan estimates such a block buy would cover about 450 aircraft over three years and save more than $2 billion.

The U.S. is planning on joining the block buy one year later, in lot 13, Bogdan said last month at the Air Force Association’s annual air and space conference. He expects that plan will be rolled out early next year along with President Barack Obama’s fiscal 2018 budget request.


So does this mean that Norway just compounded their "foolish" decision to buy the woefully deficient F-35 in the first place? ;-)

Last edited by KenV; 12th Oct 2016 at 18:22.
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 16:57
  #9848 (permalink)  
 
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No Ken,

It's because the Norwegians now have first-hand experience of the capability and the enormous potential. It simply isn't a "PowerPoint jet" to the countries who own and fly them. Regardless of the criticisms levied at the Program, the jet on the ramp is impressing its pilots, most of whom have significant previous experience in the same jet types that the F-35 is "supposedly" inferior to, overall.

Or, the entire NOR government and people are Lockheed "shills" and are doubling down on the so-called Sprey "Lemon".
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 17:54
  #9849 (permalink)  
 
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Mr Keenan has some trenchant points it seems
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Old 12th Oct 2016, 18:27
  #9850 (permalink)  
 
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MSOCS, its gotta be the latter explanation, plus saving face. The Norway gov't folks can't admit to having made a bad decision in the first place so they are doubling down on a bad decision just to save face. Yeah, that's the ticket.
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Old 24th Oct 2016, 07:24
  #9851 (permalink)  
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Report Raises Chance Of More Australian F/A-18 Super Hornets | Combat Aircraft content from Aviation Week

"Expect Australia’s finger to be on the trigger in case of further delays in the Lockheed Martin F-35 Lightning program. A parliamentary committee has called on the defense department to prepare a backup plan, increasing the possibility of the country ordering more Boeing F/A-18 Super Hornets.

The committee did not go as far as recommending that Canberra place another Super Hornet contract. But its proposal closely follows the reasoning of a submission from a think tank, the Australian Strategic Policy Institute (ASPI), urging the government to be ready to do so no later than 2019.

Separately, the Royal Australian Air Force (RAAF) has mentioned the possibility of a further Super Hornet order, apparently without much conviction, while also suggesting the F-35B, the vertical-landing version of the Lightning, as potential equipment. Unmanned strike aircraft are notably absent from its list of alternatives.............."
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Old 28th Oct 2016, 02:40
  #9852 (permalink)  
 
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LM F-35 GM Weekly Update 27 Oct 2016 Jeff Babione
"F-35B DT-III...
...The success of DT-I showed the world how impressive this aircraft is, and since then, we haven’t looked back. Next week, the test team once again heads out to the open seas to accomplish the final shipboard test detachment for the System Development and Demonstration (SDD) test program.

The plan for DT-III is fairly straightforward: expand the shipboard operating envelope to full operational capability. This requires the team to expand night operations, high-winds and-high sea states as well as test a variety of internal and external stores loads. The two stars of the detachment are BF-1 and BF-5, who operated during DT-II, and have accounted for a majority of the more than 1,100 vertical landings and nearly 2,200 short takeoffs for the SDD program....
&
Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept
"During the same deployment, the Marine Corps is taking this opportunity to complete the “Lightning Carrier Proof of Concept” demonstration to assess what the support of various Marine Corps aircraft, including 12 F-35Bs, two MV-22Bs, and two H-1 helicopters entails, and to develop the concept of operations for future shipboard deployments. In addition to testing the operational suitability and effectiveness of the F-35B, they will conduct several mission sets such as strike missions, close-air support and armed reconnaissance missions...."
https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa81...e_10_27_16.pdf (0.6Mb)

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 28th Oct 2016 at 02:55. Reason: date
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Old 29th Oct 2016, 07:43
  #9853 (permalink)  
 
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A nice anniversary. BZ Dale Collins:
35 years in Her Majesty's service
Originally Posted by NAS Pax River Tester 27 Oct 2016


Courtesy photo by Dane Wiedmann

Royal Navy Lt. Cmdr. Dale Collins celebrated 35 years in Her Majesty’s service Oct. 5 at Naval Air Station Patuxent River.

In 2015, Collins was sent to Pax River for a U.S. assignment on the F-35 Lightning II Joint Strike Fighter program where he serves as the U.K. Air Engineer and Ship Integration Project Officer at the F-35 Pax River Integrated Test Force (ITF) based at Air Test and Evaluation Squadron (VX) 23.

Throughout his tenure, Collins has led numerous flight test engineering projects in preparation for the First of Class Flying Trials scheduled to take place aboard HMS Queen Elizabeth in 2018. Soon, Collins will lead an integrated U.K.-U.S contingent of Royal Navy, Royal Air Force, MOD, and U.S. Marine Corps personnel aboard USS America (LHA 6) for the third and final phase of Developmental Test (DT-III) of F-35B Lightning II.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 15:41
  #9855 (permalink)  
 
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ORAC, I personally agree with the "don't sell F-35's to Turkey" under the same MO where we restricted sales of F-16's to Pakistan a few decades ago due to their government being utter 's. The reason I take that position is that there is no ing way Turkey is paying for those birds: they are being funded by US "loan guarantees" just as a host of military kit was sold to Turkey in previous decades due to their being a NATO ally. Similar to the F-35's and V-22's being "sold" to Israel when they are actually funded, at least in part, by US aid to Israel that's in the 3 billion per year, and more, level of bribery (as well to Egypt) reaching back to the 1973 Yom Kippur War peace deal.

That said, the "sale" is unlikely to get cancelled: over 100 Congressional districts are involved in F-35 production. "The money's too good."
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 20:28
  #9856 (permalink)  
 
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F-35 Lightning II Testing Begins on USS America 31 Oct 2016 USS America (LHA 6) Public Affairs
"PACIFIC OCEAN (NNS) -- Five Lockheed Martin F-35B Lightning II aircraft landed on the amphibious assault ship USS America (LHA 6) on Friday, October 28.

America will embark seven F-35Bs -- two are scheduled to begin the third shipboard phase of developmental test (DT-III) and five are scheduled to conduct operational testing....

... said Lt. Col. Tom "Sally" Fields, F-35 Patuxent River ITF Government Flight Test director assigned to VX-23. "During the next three weeks, we will be completing critical flight test for both Developmental Test (DT) and Operational Test (OT). The F-35 Pax River ITF and VX-23 will be conducting DT work that will establish the boundaries of safe operation for the F-35B in the 3F configuration. VMX-1 will be conducting OT operations focused on preparing maintenance crews and pilots for the first deployment of the F-35B aboard USS Wasp (LHD 1), scheduled to start in just over a year."

The operational testing will also include simulating extensive maintenance aboard a ship, said Col. George Rowell, commanding officer of VMX-1, based at Marine Corps Air Station Yuma, Arizona.

Rowell stated one of the VMX jets on board will be placed in the hangar bay, taken apart, and put together again, just to make sure everything goes well.

The maintenance work will include the replacement of a lift fan, the specialized equipment made by Rolls Royce and Pratt and Whitney that gives the F-35B variant its short take-off, "jump jet" capability, Rowell said...."
http://www.navy.mil/submit/display.asp?story_id=97428

WATCH: Marines’ F-35B Executes Perfect Vertical Landing on Ship Hope Hodge Seck 01 Nov 2016
"...In this last round of testing, conducted off the coast of San Diego [commenced Friday 28 Oct 2016], test pilots and planners pushed the envelope by intentionally operating in choppy waters, with swells of up to six feet, to see how the aircraft would handle the tough conditions.

In this video, shot from the back of an MV-22B Osprey on the flight deck, an F-35 approaches the ship in seconds, then hovers in mid-air, churning up clouds of sea spray with its powerful lift fans before descending for a precise vertical landing on the ship. You can see the deck swaying with the elevated swells as the aircraft makes its approach...."
http://www.dodbuzz.com/2016/11/01/wa...-landing-ship/


Last edited by SpazSinbad; 1st Nov 2016 at 21:14. Reason: add text & article
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 22:49
  #9857 (permalink)  
 
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FFS, Spaz, have you spent any time at sea? It's obvious the journo in question has not. If, per the article, those are elevated swells
You can see the deck swaying with the elevated swells as the aircraft makes its approach...."
then I'm the starting point guard for the San Antonio Spurs.


I love me some maritime flight ops, but the F-35B is supposed to be able to land on the ship: it's in the spec, it's a hard requirement.
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Old 1st Nov 2016, 23:52
  #9858 (permalink)  
 
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'Lonewolf 50' I do not see the need to attack reporters when I do not know the circumstances. Seck would not be the first to exaggerate and likely it was HER first time on a ship at sea in any kind of swell - however I do not know. And I'm tired of having to say again what my experience in the RAN FAA has been - some forty odd years ago now.

[Addition: As a Cadet Midshipman around mid 1966 (along with Dave Ramsay ['ramsdog' to all & sundry] later an exchange SHAR pilot with RNFAA for a few years) we boarded HMAS Melbourne by workboat with a bunch of others in Jervis Bay via a cargo net climb up to somewhere or other - quarter deck perhaps?). Anyway Dave knew the way to goofers so we both were able to watch a Sea Venom land on; then flying was cancelled due to worsening weather. Unable to disembark by work boat our Cadet Middies were offloaded by Iroquois back to the 'quarterdeck' at RANC (HMAS Creswell) where I had joined the RAN as a new 17 year old at beginning of that year; but did not graduate - went to the RAN FAA instead for a total of 9.5 years in - damn that Venom Pilot and Damn that Iroquois ride - it all looked TOO EASY to my then ignorant young eyes. :-) ]

Directly to answer in mid 1967 I spent 3 months plus onboard HMAS Anzac (then a training destroyer) with my first days at sea circling a cyclone with Force 6 sea states - I was as sick as a dog along with most of the new Midshipmen onboard. Then I had about 6 months at sea total with VF-805 flying the now venerable A4Gs - mostly blue water ops with no tanker (only four A4Gs onboard HMAS Melbourne in late 1971/early 1972) in the Pacific, except night flying we had a divert - six A4Gs are still flying today with DRAKEN USA (via upgrading to KAHU status with the RNZAF). What is your experience?

Earlier posts (if not here) at least on previous post from LM indicate some DT-III goals:
"...The plan for DT-III is fairly straightforward: expand the shipboard operating envelope to full operational capability. This requires the team to expand night operations, high-winds and-high sea states as well as test a variety of internal and external stores loads...."
______________________

F-35 NEWS Sep 2016 Combat Aircraft Magazine
"...Testing continues to evaluate the F-35B’s ability to carry asymmetric external loads in flight. The tests are designed to ensure that the fighter can operate safely while carrying a 1,000lb (454kg) store under one wing but not the other. Testing has already been conducted in non-crosswind conditions and is now being carried out in stronger crosswinds that might be experienced at sea. The latest round of land-based weapons testing is the final hurdle that the Lightning II must clear before it embarks aboard the USS America (LHA 6) for at-sea developmental testing phase 3 (DT-3) in October 2016. DT-3 is the last of three at-sea testing periods that will ultimately allow the US Marine Corps’ F-35Bs to deploy aboard US Navy amphibious assault ships. The F-35B is currently limited to crosswinds of 15kt during vertical landings. DT-3 will evaluate the aircraft’s ability to operate safely in conditions up to sea state 6, which translates as equivalent to wave heights of 13-20ft (4-6m). The DT-3 tests will involve the use of two instrumented F-35Bs...."
Source: Combat Aircraft Magazine September 2016 Volume 17 Number 9

Last edited by SpazSinbad; 2nd Nov 2016 at 02:51. Reason: add article & + additional text + RAMSDOG
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Old 2nd Nov 2016, 03:41
  #9859 (permalink)  
 
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:-) Looks like an Xwind from LEFT is causing some cringeing on deck :roll: : https://a855196877272cb14560-2a4fa81...ws-1__main.jpg

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Old 2nd Nov 2016, 13:00
  #9860 (permalink)  
 
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Another nation doubling down on a bad decision.

Looks like Turkey is yet another nation doubling down on their original poor F-35 purchase decision by buying more F-35s.

Turkey To Buy Two Dozen More F-35s
LONDON—Turkey has committed to purchase an additional 24 F-35 Joint
Strike Fighters, one of the largest single orders for the aircraft placed by a
foreign country.
Ankara has already placed orders for six aircraft, following orders made in 2014 and 2015, and will now buy two dozen more aircraft, Defense Minister Fikri Isik told broadcaster A Haber in a Nov. 1 interview.
The decision follows an Oct. 28 meeting of Turkey’s Defense Industry Executive Committee (SSIK), the first since the attempted coup against the AKP government on July 15. It called for first deliveries of the F-35 in 2018, with initial deliveries of the second batch of aircraft to follow in 2021. It is unclear whether Turkey’s order will form part of a larger block buy strategy being pursued by Lockheed Martin to reduce the per-aircraft price.
Turkey is currently planning to purchase around 100 F-35s, primarily as a replacement for the McDonnell Douglas F-4 Phantom, which remains in service in an upgraded form, as well as to replace some early model F-16s. Turkey is also continuing to pursue development of an indigenous fighter currently known as the TFX, likely to be a twin-engine aircraft.
The F-35 program was one of a number of programs discussed by the SSIK. Other programs signed off on by the committee include a modernization program for the Turkish navy’s fleet of 24 S-70B Seahawk helicopters. The committee also approved the development of a new light armored vehicle.
—Tony Osborne, [email protected]
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