F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
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'PhilipG' I could bore you with a bunch of quotes about the F-22/F-35 experience as noted by this former USMC F-22 pilot now F-35B boy - you can see/hear yourself. There are other former F-22 USAF pilots now flogging the F-35A but less quotable....
http://www.williamsfoundation.org.au.../BIO-Berke.pdf (no longer available here)
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At the Vortex of 4th and 5th Generation Aircraft Integration: The Weapons Revolution | SLDInfo
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A recent BERKE quotable quote though....
https://www.thecipherbrief.com/artic...advantage-1091
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More quotes from RAAF former exchange F-22 pilot (but not yet F-35A AFAIK) plus BERKE and others:
http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/up...-AndrewMcL.pdf (0.9Mb)
Major Berke reported to Tyndall AFB, FL in February 2008, for transition training in the F-22 Raptor. Upon completion he was assigned to the 422nd Test and Evaluation Squadron at Nellis AFB, NV as an Operational Test Pilot. He served as the Commander of the F-22 Division. In July 2011, LtCol Berke reported to Eglin AFB, FL where he is currently serving as Commanding Officer, VMFAT-501. He has accumulated over 2,800 flight in hours in the F/A-18, F-16, F-22, & F-35.
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At the Vortex of 4th and 5th Generation Aircraft Integration: The Weapons Revolution | SLDInfo
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A recent BERKE quotable quote though....
"...I’ve always said this: the greatest advocates of the F-35 are the people closest to the program. The biggest skeptics and critics are the people farthest away from the program. The less you know about it, the less you understand it, and the more critical you are of it. If you ever hear someone pining away for the F-16 of 1979 or the F-18 of 1983 or the F-15 of the mid 70’s, you’re talking to a someone who’s so far behind the technology and what the airplane can do that to me, his criticisms are just totally unwarranted.
The people that know the most about the jet are the people who are the biggest advocates for it. And keep in mind these are people with experience in other airplanes and other warfighting assets. I didn’t grow up on the F-35. I had three previous operational experiences with amazing airplanes prior to the Joint Strike Fighter. My opinion of the F-35 is vastly higher than that of anything else, and that’s just because I understand it."
The people that know the most about the jet are the people who are the biggest advocates for it. And keep in mind these are people with experience in other airplanes and other warfighting assets. I didn’t grow up on the F-35. I had three previous operational experiences with amazing airplanes prior to the Joint Strike Fighter. My opinion of the F-35 is vastly higher than that of anything else, and that’s just because I understand it."
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More quotes from RAAF former exchange F-22 pilot (but not yet F-35A AFAIK) plus BERKE and others:
http://www.sldinfo.com/wp-content/up...-AndrewMcL.pdf (0.9Mb)
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 21st Sep 2016 at 18:12.
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Spaz, yes I have seen all the bits you have quoted. None of them answer the question as posed.
Is a G limited F35 the best thing since sliced bread, that can out perform an F16 whilst a non limited one looses out to a two seat F16. These two situations seems slightly difficult to reconcile....
The Gilmore report suggests that there are various serious hurdles to get over before 3F un restricted planes can be released to the services, you fail to talk to this.
Is a G limited F35 the best thing since sliced bread, that can out perform an F16 whilst a non limited one looses out to a two seat F16. These two situations seems slightly difficult to reconcile....
The Gilmore report suggests that there are various serious hurdles to get over before 3F un restricted planes can be released to the services, you fail to talk to this.
Last edited by PhilipG; 22nd Sep 2016 at 09:15. Reason: Typo
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'PhilipG' you can't always get what you want. You make a claim that is false IMHO: "...whilst a non limited one [test F-35A?] looses [loses] out to a two seat F16..." I think that aspect has been covered here at the time the single test point report beginning of 2015 released middle of 2015?
The Gilmore report is made from JPO details given to them with prognostications on possible future of 3F made by DOT&E - we shall see won't we? Meanwhile a quote from four wize ones? 21 Sep 2016:
Carlisle: F-35A is fusion warfare key component > U.S. Air Force > Article Display
The Gilmore report is made from JPO details given to them with prognostications on possible future of 3F made by DOT&E - we shall see won't we? Meanwhile a quote from four wize ones? 21 Sep 2016:
Carlisle: F-35A is fusion warfare key component > U.S. Air Force > Article Display
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My point was that both reports cannot be correct, it would just be reassuring to know where the project really was...
As for the single F-16 dogfight datapoint, that's pretty old news, has been discussed on this and several other forums ad nauseam, and has been pretty much put to bed. So "where is the airplane now?" That's been answered: the pilots who actually fly the airplane "now" are loving it and most have experience in other tactical jets. By their reconning, the F-35 is already better than those legacy aircraft. The test and development folks continue to wring out the airplane and are continuing to improve it. It's got a ways to go before everything that needs doing gets done. That's pretty typical. What is unclear is how much will get done under the current budget plans/constraints. And no one can answer that right now, but the answer is being worked on.
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'SARF' IF F-35? pilots (test & operational) are lying why would they want to be on the F-35 program? Are they all going to fly with LM (as test pilots) as civilians later. I thought USAF pilot retention problem today was due to NOT flying much with other jets and good civilian big jet jobs outside USAF.
I'm sorry but I don't understand the idea that anyone in a hierarchical organisation has free speech. It certainly isn't the case at any company that I've been in.
One doesn't lie, that's a ridiculous suggestion. One just tells the appropriate parts of the truth, leaving a lot of complexity out.
One doesn't lie, that's a ridiculous suggestion. One just tells the appropriate parts of the truth, leaving a lot of complexity out.
SARF: are you in the program, or are you guessing? (Not saying that it's a bad guess ...)
The credibility of Lt. Col David Berke USMC is based on personal experience:
The credibility of Major Morten Hanche RNoAF is based on personal experience:
What is the credibility of their PPRuNe detractors based on? I think we should be told.
I had three previous operational experiences with amazing airplanes prior to the Joint Strike Fighter. My opinion of the F-35 is vastly higher than that of anything else...
I don’t make my claims based on bits and pieces of information, derived from potentially unreliable sources. They are based on experience actually flying and training with the jet for nearly a year... Personally, I am impressed by the F-35.
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The pilots flying it have to say they love it... Or they will be off the program..
Think less military., think more corporate
Think less military., think more corporate
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As I put above it is difficult to understand how a G Limited plan running 3I software can be so much better than anything else, in all respects we are lead to believe, when the Gilmore report says thee are so many problems.
If 3I is "the best thing since sliced bread", what adjective or phrase can be used to describe the fully war fighting capable 3F software? "The dogs Bo....s"?
If 3I is "the best thing since sliced bread", what adjective or phrase can be used to describe the fully war fighting capable 3F software? "The dogs Bo....s"?
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Dr Gilmore is simply, and effectively, "doing his job", holding to account the various operational metrics of the Program; he is documenting (for the public record) all the shortcomings at the time of writing each report. On the other hand, the JPO are well aware of these shortcomings prior to Gilmore putting pen to paper. Indeed, the report is useful in the procurement process as it helps to force issue resolution where stagnation occurs on some of the highlighted issues. Most of the fixes already have a path to resolution when he writes, but he still has to document it - then it appears (outwardly) that there is no fix to the public when they read it, out of context, and in isolation from knowing what is going on inside the Program.
That's Morten's point and he's trying to do so in a way to help the wider audience understand. I shouldn't have to tell you that he's not a "shill", or a corporate talking head, but I will. If he didn't believe the stuff coming out of his own mouth, in his own words, he wouldn't write anything and would stay quiet.
That's Morten's point and he's trying to do so in a way to help the wider audience understand. I shouldn't have to tell you that he's not a "shill", or a corporate talking head, but I will. If he didn't believe the stuff coming out of his own mouth, in his own words, he wouldn't write anything and would stay quiet.
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PhilipG, maybe I can help a bit.
3i software is currently charging around on various Exercises and scenarios, kicking ass in applicable mission sets - remember it's only "IOC" and the stated 3i capability is for "limited war fighting". Details can't be discussed, naturally. If people choose to not believe that, fine. Morten is stating how impressive it already is at the initial war fighting capability and that's in comparison to his previous experience, so quite interesting.
3F is already in developmental test and the operational test guys will get it next year. 3F will bring the full war fighting capability in terms of some of the sensors, fusion upgrades, and will complete the mission sets. That means it can charge around kicking ass in all declared missions. When sufficient jets/squadrons and personnel are trained up and established at readiness, FOC will be declared.
3i software is currently charging around on various Exercises and scenarios, kicking ass in applicable mission sets - remember it's only "IOC" and the stated 3i capability is for "limited war fighting". Details can't be discussed, naturally. If people choose to not believe that, fine. Morten is stating how impressive it already is at the initial war fighting capability and that's in comparison to his previous experience, so quite interesting.
3F is already in developmental test and the operational test guys will get it next year. 3F will bring the full war fighting capability in terms of some of the sensors, fusion upgrades, and will complete the mission sets. That means it can charge around kicking ass in all declared missions. When sufficient jets/squadrons and personnel are trained up and established at readiness, FOC will be declared.
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They may love it but if that was all we heard we would think there were no problems at all....and there are.
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The Norwegian test pilot is employed by the program, so he does have a stake in the future of the aircraft and that should be taken into account when evaluating his comments and opinions. BTW, his paper was originally published in the Norwegian JSF program office blog before being republished with permission in the Aviationist blog. Dr. Gilmore's independent department has a larger role overseeing the program: its inspectors monitor its progress in meeting production and performance specifications, and will eventually conduct/monitor tests to verify that production representative aircraft meet those specs (up until now, DOT&E mostly relies on JPO data because OT&E tests have not yet taken place.) He has no personal or professional stake in its success or failure; his function is to ensure the government gets what it pays for. To its credit, the JPO almost always concurs with DOT&Es factual findings (it is JPO data,) yet sometimes differs on timeframes to correct deficiencies. Both entities have been wrong on those predictions.
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HANCHE is this: https://nettsteder.regjeringen.no/ka...earned-so-far/
He usually writes on the "Kampflybloggen (The Combat Aircraft Blog) is the official blog of the Norwegian F-35 Program Office within the Norwegian Ministry of Defence".
"...The author of this post, Major Morten «Dolby» Hanche, has more than 2200 hours behind him in the F-16, he is a U.S. Navy Test Pilot School graduate, and on 10 November 2015 he became the first Norwegian to fly the F-35. He now serves as an instructor and as the Assistant Weapons Officer with the 62nd Fighter Squadron at Luke Air Force Base in Arizona."