Go Back  PPRuNe Forums > Aircrew Forums > Military Aviation
Reload this Page >

F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

F-35 Cancelled, then what ?

Old 18th Jun 2015, 14:09
  #6301 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Why would France want to rejoin any Eurofighter programme, especially as they have Rafale?
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2015, 14:28
  #6302 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,631
The future of strike is going to be UAV based,
interesting concept-no human in the loop mega-destruction..



No I don't think strike is going unmanned any time soon....
glad rag is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2015, 14:53
  #6303 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: E MIDLANDS
Posts: 284
CM, I was referring to the past, and when France spilt from the Eurofighter programme.
andyy is offline  
Old 18th Jun 2015, 15:01
  #6304 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
Ah, I see, Andyy. Maybe the UK should have gone with Rafale, then.

I can't believe I said that.
Courtney Mil is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2015, 12:56
  #6305 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: UK
Posts: 1,960
First UK weapon dropped - PWIV:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jzlNg1qNfqM#t=16
Just This Once... is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2015, 18:39
  #6306 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: virginia, USA
Age: 53
Posts: 826
Just This Once
First UK weapon dropped - PWIV
Thanks Just, youtube blocked at my present computer, so had to look it up:

2 inert Paveways IV dropped from a "B" flying from Patuxent River with a UK pilot.


SEAPOWER Magazine Online
sandiego89 is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2015, 19:44
  #6307 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2002
Location: scotland
Posts: 505
F-35 Unscathed by Hostile Fire in Green Flag, says Aviation Week.
Not a single F-35 was “shot down” during the joint-force Green Flag exercises testing the jet and its pilots’ prowess operating it in a contested air-support role in the Western U.S. this month, according to U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Cameron Dadgar, head of the exercise and leader of the 549th Combat Training Sqdn. at Nellis AFB, Nevada. This is notable because A-10s and F-16s were defeated in the same conditions, operating in an environment with hostile aircraft, just another rumour to mull over.
KPax is offline  
Old 19th Jun 2015, 19:50
  #6308 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Around
Posts: 876
Originally Posted by KPax View Post
F-35 Unscathed by Hostile Fire in Green Flag, says Aviation Week.
Not a single F-35 was “shot down” during the joint-force Green Flag exercises testing the jet and its pilots’ prowess operating it in a contested air-support role in the Western U.S. this month, according to U.S. Air Force Lt. Col. Cameron Dadgar, head of the exercise and leader of the 549th Combat Training Sqdn. at Nellis AFB, Nevada. This is notable because A-10s and F-16s were defeated in the same conditions, operating in an environment with hostile aircraft, just another rumour to mull over.
That's not relevant as we will only ever fight Afghan style COIN ops from now on. Oh wait...
downsizer is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2015, 06:21
  #6309 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far West Wessex
Posts: 2,549
The outcome is hardly surprising since A-10s don't even have a missile warning system, and were never intended to engage fighters, and USAF F-16s have rather primitive MWS and RWR and no active EW. There is no mention of whether F-15 or Growler cover was provided. If not, the jets were sitting ducks in a scenario that only a lunatic would plan.

Nonetheless this exercise was set up and given unusual publicity at a point where, by total coincidence, the USAF is trying to ditch the A-10 and use its people to support F-35.

No shenanigans here, I'm sure.
LowObservable is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2015, 06:47
  #6310 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2001
Location: UK
Posts: 1,121
So, whilst shenanigans may have been in progress, your point is that neither A-10 nor F-16 can operate in a contested environment and require OCA and SEAD, or things get a little unfair..whilst F-35 doesn't?
orca is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2015, 07:51
  #6311 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far West Wessex
Posts: 2,549
It would depend on the threat, but clearly there are wide range of RF-guided systems that would be dangerous against a USAF F-16 or A-10. Fighters with better self-protection would be different.

Also, different ground situations and weather would affect the F-35's ability to avoid ground fire. Static or slow targets and clear skies, plus RoEs that allow high-altitude releases with the rather dated midwave-only EOTS.
LowObservable is offline  
Old 20th Jun 2015, 17:55
  #6312 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Sep 2012
Location: England's green and pleasant land
Posts: 697
orca

MSOCS is offline  
Old 21st Jun 2015, 07:59
  #6313 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far West Wessex
Posts: 2,549
Nice emoticons, MSOCS, but are we now celebrating as a grand success the fact that there are some scenarios where F-35s survive and 40-plus year old designs do not?

It would have been a little catastrophic were that not the case.

I would hold the triumphant notes until I knew what the threat was, RoEs &c. Was it 2020s or basic Cold War surplus - MiG-29S/Su-27, Buk-2M &c? Absolutely crucial factors.

Last edited by LowObservable; 21st Jun 2015 at 08:48.
LowObservable is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 07:56
  #6314 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 790
Just thought I'd mention, given the relatively recent conversation about the lack of F-35B ski jumps, that the first F-35B ski jumps took place on 19th June. Link here:

https://vimeo.com/lmaeronautics/revi...135/07c088ad82

Best Regards as ever to those doing the test stuff:

Engines
Engines is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 09:09
  #6315 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2006
Location: Portsmouth
Posts: 35
But......but......but......but...

Overland........wrong colour skijump......sunny day.......aliens


but......but......must be a fake........we're doomed!!!
Not_a_boffin is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 09:17
  #6316 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2004
Location: Far West Wessex
Posts: 2,549
Let's not have this devolve into yet another "the naysayers said it would never happen" meme, please.
LowObservable is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 09:59
  #6317 (permalink)  

Do a Hover - it avoids G
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chichester West Sussex UK
Age: 87
Posts: 2,206
Generally I don’t mind naysayers at all provided they have the education and experience to understand what they are talking about and explain why they hold their view. Sadly several here do not.

Re ski-jumps, it does not take much thought to realise that the ramp delivers any aircraft into free air in a nose up attitude and climbing. This saves the pilot having to arrange all of this when departing from the flat. Indeed back in 1977 when the boffins thought I was exaggerating how easy a jump was compared to a flat takeoff, I gave them the next record with a straight line on the tailplane and aileron traces for 35 secs after crossing the end. At the debrief they showed me the traces and apologised for the instrumentation drop out on the tailplane and aileron channels. I said “It was not a drop out I was not touching the stick - can you have a lower workload than doing nothing?”
John Farley is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 10:19
  #6318 (permalink)  

Do a Hover - it avoids G
 
Join Date: Oct 1999
Location: Chichester West Sussex UK
Age: 87
Posts: 2,206
Incidentally, if you look at any video of a B flat deck takeoff and watch the tailplane activity crossing the end and compare that with the tailplane activity off the ski-jump you will notice that even modern flight control systems find life easier from a ramp.
John Farley is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 11:04
  #6319 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2009
Location: London
Posts: 469
I'm sure this is a stupid question, but why not use ramps on land?
t43562 is offline  
Old 23rd Jun 2015, 11:28
  #6320 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Nov 2011
Location: Tarn et Garonne, Southwest France
Posts: 5,283
They do. Didn't you watch the video?

Maybe the real answer is, you can, but there's more space available for a runway of proper dimensions.
Courtney Mil is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service - Do Not Sell My Personal Information -

Copyright © 2018 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.