F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
Maus92 - Good observation. The longer it drags on, the more it is likely to end up like the F-111: by the time that it's fixed, the U.S. customer will be on to the next shiny object. This process is likely to kick into higher gear once the bomber contract is issued (they're aiming for the summer). The variable-cycle engine is the key technology - and putting it in the short, stout F-35 airframe would be like putting a turboprop in a P-47.
And this applies even if nobody in the next 5 years or so comes up with a l@ser that weighs about a ton and puts out enough energy to zorch an incoming missile, 30-45 seconds out, with a dwell time and fire rate that allows you to kill one target every 5 sec or so, and that can squeeze off 10-15 shots between <5 min recharges. If that happens all bets are off because the whole problem of tracking and leading the target goes away.
Where this could be super-seriously painful for the partners is in the upgrade budget. I don't see any sign that the R&D for upgrades will be any less than the thick-end-of-$1bn annual average for very slow improvements to the F-22. Which means that even when there are 1000 F-35s in the fleet, each operator gets the Make General Repairs to All Your Houses card once a year, to the tune of $1m per jet, just for R&D.
And this applies even if nobody in the next 5 years or so comes up with a l@ser that weighs about a ton and puts out enough energy to zorch an incoming missile, 30-45 seconds out, with a dwell time and fire rate that allows you to kill one target every 5 sec or so, and that can squeeze off 10-15 shots between <5 min recharges. If that happens all bets are off because the whole problem of tracking and leading the target goes away.
Where this could be super-seriously painful for the partners is in the upgrade budget. I don't see any sign that the R&D for upgrades will be any less than the thick-end-of-$1bn annual average for very slow improvements to the F-22. Which means that even when there are 1000 F-35s in the fleet, each operator gets the Make General Repairs to All Your Houses card once a year, to the tune of $1m per jet, just for R&D.
Last edited by LowObservable; 24th Jan 2015 at 13:36.
ANALYSIS: Hurdles ahead as Lockheed works to meet full-rate F-35 production
ANALYSIS: Hurdles ahead as Lockheed works to meet full-rate F-35 production
From Flight Global. A long, quite detailed and interesting article, mainly about the issues Lockheed face in ramping up production from the current three per month to the seventeen per month target for full rate production in 2019.
From Flight Global. A long, quite detailed and interesting article, mainly about the issues Lockheed face in ramping up production from the current three per month to the seventeen per month target for full rate production in 2019.
Last edited by Lyneham Lad; 27th Jan 2015 at 14:39.
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Moving on…..
The US DoD must have recently reviewed past history (F-111) that they somehow didn't review soon enough and recently decided separately designed fighters for the Navy and the Air Force does make sense, e.g., experiences with the F-14, F-18 and F-15, F-16.
Pentagon To Boost F-35 Orders, Develop New Fighters LMT BA - Investors.com
The US DoD must have recently reviewed past history (F-111) that they somehow didn't review soon enough and recently decided separately designed fighters for the Navy and the Air Force does make sense, e.g., experiences with the F-14, F-18 and F-15, F-16.
Pentagon To Boost F-35 Orders, Develop New Fighters LMT BA - Investors.com
The US DoD must have recently reviewed past history (F-111) that they somehow didn't review soon enough and recently decided separately designed fighters for the Navy and the Air Force does make sense
Yep. Speaking of new shiny objects...
U.S. military budget to start funding post-F-35 'X-plane' : Business
Consider that the program of record still has the USAF buying 80 F-35As in 2037.
U.S. military budget to start funding post-F-35 'X-plane' : Business
Consider that the program of record still has the USAF buying 80 F-35As in 2037.
The Defense Department will also seek $1.2 billion for the development of a new long-range bomber — another contract that's expected to be hotly contested —
as well as $821 million procurement of MQ-9 Reaper drones, according to Politico.
At some point, will the US DoD look at what they need out of aircraft and airborne platforms and question the paradigm that a person needs to be in it?
The unmanned carrier aircraft is a step in that direction as part of the force mix. Maybe I am wrong, and the key is the mix : some manned, some unmanned. (That is what the USN's LAMPS community is evolving into).
From the linked article, what appears to be happening is that an engine is what the follow on strike/fighter aircraft is to be built around.
Not sure if that's what's going on, but that's how it reads to me.
Confusing, to be sure.
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Maybe I am wrong, and the key is the mix : some manned, some unmanned. (That is what the USN's LAMPS community is evolving into).
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From the linked article, what appears to be happening is that an engine is what the follow on strike/fighter aircraft is to be built around.
Next Generation Engine Work Points to Future U.S. Fighter Designs - USNI News
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Originally Posted by KPax
I have just seen pictures of the F35 operating at Red Flag this month, would be interested to know how it is fairing.
No, you've seen pictures of OT and a WA tailed F-35s operating at Nellis alongside Red Flag, but these aircraft are not fragged to take part in the exercise.
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I do not believe that another bomber ever needs to be built.
Maybe not, but in GW1, Afghanistan 2001 , Kosovo, and GW11, resistance on the ground was broken by B-52 cluster bombing, not precision weapons.
Those B-52s will not last forever, and a platform capable of delivering high tonnages of devastating hell on ground enemy formations will always be a needed and key arrow in the quiver.
Whether the B-52 replacement will be manned or not is a good argument. I have no problem with totally automated, robotic warfare, so long as we remain at the leading edge of technology. Sadly, I think our advantage there has been neglected in favor of income equality.
Maybe not, but in GW1, Afghanistan 2001 , Kosovo, and GW11, resistance on the ground was broken by B-52 cluster bombing, not precision weapons.
Those B-52s will not last forever, and a platform capable of delivering high tonnages of devastating hell on ground enemy formations will always be a needed and key arrow in the quiver.
Whether the B-52 replacement will be manned or not is a good argument. I have no problem with totally automated, robotic warfare, so long as we remain at the leading edge of technology. Sadly, I think our advantage there has been neglected in favor of income equality.
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Originally Posted by LowObservable
Yep. Speaking of new shiny objects...
U.S. military budget to start funding post-F-35 'X-plane' : Business
Consider that the program of record still has the USAF buying 80 F-35As in 2037.
U.S. military budget to start funding post-F-35 'X-plane' : Business
Consider that the program of record still has the USAF buying 80 F-35As in 2037.
These new fighters are to replace the F-15C, F-22, F-15E, and F/A-18E/Fs - aircraft the F-35 was never intended to replace - but you knew that also.
So why do you keep trying to claim that starting the process of replacing aircraft the F-35 was never intended to replace is somehow proof that the F-35 is a failure?
Obsessed much?
...for example, when a certain fast jet project, back in the 80s and 90s was eating the Defence Budget, all sorts of other, "unrelated" projects found their funding evaporating. Who'd have thought there was any relationship between Eurofighter and, say, the Army's new radio? All things are connected in this field.
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...for example, when a certain fast jet project, back in the 80s and 90s was eating the Defence Budget, all sorts of other, "unrelated" projects found their funding evaporating. Who'd have thought there was any relationship between Eurofighter and, say, the Army's new radio? All things are connected in this field.
ker$$$ring....
Maybe more detail is needed.
If an SC6G (so-called sixth gen) fighter is to be produced in quantity for the USAF in parallel with the F-35, starting round 2030, the USAF will at that time be acquiring, each year, 80 F-35As, 8-10 LRSBs, xx SC6Gs, along with tankers and T-Xs. By the way, the replacement of the ALCM (LRSO) and Minuteman III (GBSD) will also be in full swing. I think that is called "fiscally challenging".
Also, for those who think SC6G is a replacement for F-15s: the planned replacement for the F-15 is the F-35. The USAF still nominally has a 1900-fighter goal, which nominally is covered by 1763 F-35s and 140-ish F-22s.
And if the SC6G is to follow the F-35 into production (well after 2035) it is ridiculously early in the game to be funding prototypes.
It may be worth remembering, too, that until the mid-2000s the F-35 was not expected to displace any of the 339 F-22s.
If an SC6G (so-called sixth gen) fighter is to be produced in quantity for the USAF in parallel with the F-35, starting round 2030, the USAF will at that time be acquiring, each year, 80 F-35As, 8-10 LRSBs, xx SC6Gs, along with tankers and T-Xs. By the way, the replacement of the ALCM (LRSO) and Minuteman III (GBSD) will also be in full swing. I think that is called "fiscally challenging".
Also, for those who think SC6G is a replacement for F-15s: the planned replacement for the F-15 is the F-35. The USAF still nominally has a 1900-fighter goal, which nominally is covered by 1763 F-35s and 140-ish F-22s.
And if the SC6G is to follow the F-35 into production (well after 2035) it is ridiculously early in the game to be funding prototypes.
It may be worth remembering, too, that until the mid-2000s the F-35 was not expected to displace any of the 339 F-22s.
Last edited by LowObservable; 29th Jan 2015 at 14:40.
