F-35 Cancelled, then what ?
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But that’s all part of optimising a 35,000lb aeroplane to get off the ship compared to the Harrier, which is only 16,000 to 25,000lb.”
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I would suspect when the max. weight STO deck takeoff is accomplished we will know about it (which ship?). Ski Jump testing at Pax River was due to start in 2012 I believe until the UK switcheroo from B to C and back to B put the ski jump tests back to probably later this year? Recently on this thread there was a report that the Pax River ski jump was carefully measured for accuracy of the build.
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 10th Jul 2014 at 08:01. Reason: Pax
The Marine F-35's are shown as being cancelled in the latest RIAT show update.
A picture in today's Telegraph shows a plastic replica being rolled out at Fairford.....
That reminds me of the old Goon Show, and a cardboard replica of Dartmoor Prison. (One for the very old, or fellow Goon Show enthusiasts....)
A picture in today's Telegraph shows a plastic replica being rolled out at Fairford.....
That reminds me of the old Goon Show, and a cardboard replica of Dartmoor Prison. (One for the very old, or fellow Goon Show enthusiasts....)
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Doing what the Aussies do, fly in the replica so our PM and the two chosen pilots can stand in front of it and make an announcement.
No for RIAT
F-35s Will Not Fly At Air Tattoo; Farnborough Appearance In Jeopardy | Defense content from Aviation Week
RIAT a no-go. Farnborough not decided yet, but time is running out. Bet much midnight oil is being burned, and crews still seems to be a Pax River for the call. Would like to see a last minute go. Wonder if they could do a tame flyby without a verification flight?
RIAT a no-go. Farnborough not decided yet, but time is running out. Bet much midnight oil is being burned, and crews still seems to be a Pax River for the call. Would like to see a last minute go. Wonder if they could do a tame flyby without a verification flight?
STO - AIR International F-35 Special Edition July 2014
AIR International has a good special edition July 2014 on the F-35. Some info is repeated but also updated. I have not read about the two position STO throttle before - I would be interested in any comments about that aspect please. Thanks. The article is very long whilst only a few STO paras are below:
Jumping Jack Flash July 2014 unknown author AIR International F-35 Special Edition
Quote:
“...STO-ing...
...There are three ways to conduct a short take off (STO) in the F-35B: stick STO, button STO – and auto STO. “That’s a completely automated way to STO the aircraft off the flight deck. You punch in a distance and the aircraft will auto rotate to its optimal fly-out condition. It’s all based on distance: we know where the aircraft is spotted [before it starts its take-off run] and where it should start its actual rotation,” explained Rusnok. “Unlike a Harrier, which launches off the end of the ship flat, the F-35 rotates at about 225 feet from the bow, sits on two wheels until it gets to the end of the ship and actually takes off, a much different process to a Harrier. From a pilot perspective, you lose some sight of the front of the ship; in a Harrier you can see all the deck. But that’s all part of optimising a 35,000lb aeroplane to get off the ship compared to the Harrier, which is only 16,000 to 25,000lb.”
With stick STO the pilot controls the take-off by pulling back on the stick, holding it there and then rotating to the optimal pitch angle to fly off. In button STO, the pilot uses a trim switch which rotates the aircraft when pushed in, activating it when the aircraft passes the yellow STO rotation line positioned 225 feet from the bow of the ship.
“That was a temporary marking applied on the flight deck for this trial and is now being permanently installed on the ship with lighting,” explained Rusnok. “It’s based on optimising the performance of the aircraft and its flying qualities, so we can get the aeroplane off with the maximum amount of nozzle clearance and performance. The STO line is our visual cue to either pull the stick aft or hit the button; or if you’re on automated STO you should start seeing the aeroplane’s flight controls moving by the line, otherwise the pilot can intervene and pull back on the stick. We’ve never had to intervene.”
The pilot also has command of the throttle. Two power setting options are available for take-off: Mil STO and Max STO [have not read about this before], as Maj Rusnok explained: “When you taxi to the tram line you stay in mode one, the conventional flight mode. You convert the aircraft into mode four, the STOVL flight mode, and it takes about 15 seconds or so for the doors to open up and the lift fan to engage.
“Then you push the throttle about halfway up the throttle slide into a detent position at about 34% engine thrust request. It sits there and you check the engine gauges: if the readings are okay you slam the throttle to either Mil or Max position and then release the brakes simultaneously. Pushing through to max is like an afterburner detent. But it’s not an afterburner – you can’t go to afterburner in mode four.
“It’s a very fast acceleration. The closest we would spot from the bow is 400 feet, so about 175 feet before we would actually start rotating the aeroplane [at the STO rotation line]; so very, very quick.”
One of the big test points for DT I was to ensure adequate nozzle clearance in all the different test conditions. The engine nozzle swings down and back up during the take-off in accordance with inputs from the aircraft control laws.
“It’s all automated,” said Rusnok. “The pilot is not in the loop whatsoever – either they’re pushing the button and letting the aeroplane do its own thing or pulling back on the stick to help it. Monitoring systems cue when something is wrong, so you have to rely on them to keep you safe because the flight controls are being moved unbelievably quickly.”
Maj Rusnok said the take-off was very much like that ashore, with very little sink off the end of the deck. “The aeroplane is ridiculously powerful in STOVL mode. Just raw, unadulterated power.”
AIR International F-35 Special Edition July 2014
AIR International has a good special edition July 2014 on the F-35. Some info is repeated but also updated. I have not read about the two position STO throttle before - I would be interested in any comments about that aspect please. Thanks. The article is very long whilst only a few STO paras are below:
Jumping Jack Flash July 2014 unknown author AIR International F-35 Special Edition
Quote:
“...STO-ing...
...There are three ways to conduct a short take off (STO) in the F-35B: stick STO, button STO – and auto STO. “That’s a completely automated way to STO the aircraft off the flight deck. You punch in a distance and the aircraft will auto rotate to its optimal fly-out condition. It’s all based on distance: we know where the aircraft is spotted [before it starts its take-off run] and where it should start its actual rotation,” explained Rusnok. “Unlike a Harrier, which launches off the end of the ship flat, the F-35 rotates at about 225 feet from the bow, sits on two wheels until it gets to the end of the ship and actually takes off, a much different process to a Harrier. From a pilot perspective, you lose some sight of the front of the ship; in a Harrier you can see all the deck. But that’s all part of optimising a 35,000lb aeroplane to get off the ship compared to the Harrier, which is only 16,000 to 25,000lb.”
With stick STO the pilot controls the take-off by pulling back on the stick, holding it there and then rotating to the optimal pitch angle to fly off. In button STO, the pilot uses a trim switch which rotates the aircraft when pushed in, activating it when the aircraft passes the yellow STO rotation line positioned 225 feet from the bow of the ship.
“That was a temporary marking applied on the flight deck for this trial and is now being permanently installed on the ship with lighting,” explained Rusnok. “It’s based on optimising the performance of the aircraft and its flying qualities, so we can get the aeroplane off with the maximum amount of nozzle clearance and performance. The STO line is our visual cue to either pull the stick aft or hit the button; or if you’re on automated STO you should start seeing the aeroplane’s flight controls moving by the line, otherwise the pilot can intervene and pull back on the stick. We’ve never had to intervene.”
The pilot also has command of the throttle. Two power setting options are available for take-off: Mil STO and Max STO [have not read about this before], as Maj Rusnok explained: “When you taxi to the tram line you stay in mode one, the conventional flight mode. You convert the aircraft into mode four, the STOVL flight mode, and it takes about 15 seconds or so for the doors to open up and the lift fan to engage.
“Then you push the throttle about halfway up the throttle slide into a detent position at about 34% engine thrust request. It sits there and you check the engine gauges: if the readings are okay you slam the throttle to either Mil or Max position and then release the brakes simultaneously. Pushing through to max is like an afterburner detent. But it’s not an afterburner – you can’t go to afterburner in mode four.
“It’s a very fast acceleration. The closest we would spot from the bow is 400 feet, so about 175 feet before we would actually start rotating the aeroplane [at the STO rotation line]; so very, very quick.”
One of the big test points for DT I was to ensure adequate nozzle clearance in all the different test conditions. The engine nozzle swings down and back up during the take-off in accordance with inputs from the aircraft control laws.
“It’s all automated,” said Rusnok. “The pilot is not in the loop whatsoever – either they’re pushing the button and letting the aeroplane do its own thing or pulling back on the stick to help it. Monitoring systems cue when something is wrong, so you have to rely on them to keep you safe because the flight controls are being moved unbelievably quickly.”
Maj Rusnok said the take-off was very much like that ashore, with very little sink off the end of the deck. “The aeroplane is ridiculously powerful in STOVL mode. Just raw, unadulterated power.”
AIR International F-35 Special Edition July 2014
From AvWeek:
"As of this moment, the airworthiness authorities need more evidence and we are providing that," Bogdan said.
Making Farnborough, at this point, depends on a few consecutive miracles.
"As of this moment, the airworthiness authorities need more evidence and we are providing that," Bogdan said.
Making Farnborough, at this point, depends on a few consecutive miracles.
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Lockheed Martin rebuts F-35 critics on cost, progress by Chris Pocock July 15, 2010
Lockheed Martin rebuts F-35 critics on cost, progress | Aviation International News
_______________
Blue Sky OPS AIR International F-35 Lightning II 26 April 2012
Mark Ayton spoke with Peter Wilson, a former Royal Navy Sea Harrier pilot and now STOVL lead test pilot at NAS Patuxent River...
AIR International F-35 Lightning II 26 April 2012
“...When asked how the F-35B compared to the Harrier in terms of ease of takeoff/landing, Tomlinson replied: “It’s chalk and cheese–and so it should be! This is a single-button operation with no special controls–much easier than the Harrier. For short takeoffs you just power up; the system takes care of everything else. On the ski-jump, for instance, the system detects the change in deck angle & doesn’t apply any rotation as it would on a flat deck.”...”
_______________
Blue Sky OPS AIR International F-35 Lightning II 26 April 2012
Mark Ayton spoke with Peter Wilson, a former Royal Navy Sea Harrier pilot and now STOVL lead test pilot at NAS Patuxent River...
...F-35B Take-off Options
The F-35B STOVL variant has a range of take-off options using different modes to suit the basing. Take-offs from a ship, with either a flat deck or one with a ski jump, are also possible with a mode for each scenario. These are short take-off scenarios that can be achieved at speeds as low as 50kts with a deck or ground run of no more than a 200ft (60m). In the same mode, a take-off as fast as 150 knots is possible if the weight of the aircraft requires that speed. If the aircraft is light it can take off at a slow speed and faster when heavy.
Take-off at speeds as low as 5, 10, 15, 20kts (9, 18, 27 and 36km/h) are also possible, each of which is effectively a vertical take-off while moving forward. There are different ways of rotating the aircraft in STOVL mode, including the usual ‘pull on the stick’. Other ways are by pressing a button or programming a ground distance required after which, the aircraft control law initiates the rotation and selects the ideal angle for climb-out...."
The F-35B STOVL variant has a range of take-off options using different modes to suit the basing. Take-offs from a ship, with either a flat deck or one with a ski jump, are also possible with a mode for each scenario. These are short take-off scenarios that can be achieved at speeds as low as 50kts with a deck or ground run of no more than a 200ft (60m). In the same mode, a take-off as fast as 150 knots is possible if the weight of the aircraft requires that speed. If the aircraft is light it can take off at a slow speed and faster when heavy.
Take-off at speeds as low as 5, 10, 15, 20kts (9, 18, 27 and 36km/h) are also possible, each of which is effectively a vertical take-off while moving forward. There are different ways of rotating the aircraft in STOVL mode, including the usual ‘pull on the stick’. Other ways are by pressing a button or programming a ground distance required after which, the aircraft control law initiates the rotation and selects the ideal angle for climb-out...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 10th Jul 2014 at 18:25. Reason: XtraTxt
Big changes in four years....
Lockheed Martin chairman and CEO Bob Stevens declared, “There is no more affordable alternative capable of performing the mission.” He maintained that if Lockheed Martin can secure the production volume, the acquisition cost of the F-35 will be equivalent to a similarly equipped F-16 Block 60 or F-18 fighter. That would be around $60 million in current dollars.
But the fear of concurrency remains, particularly since there has been no apparent relaxation in the target date of 2012 for initial operating capability (IOC) of the F-35B with the U.S. Marine Corps. The planned IOCs for the U.S. Air Force F-35A and U.S. Navy F-35C are both in 2016, using Block 3 software.
Lockheed Martin chairman and CEO Bob Stevens declared, “There is no more affordable alternative capable of performing the mission.” He maintained that if Lockheed Martin can secure the production volume, the acquisition cost of the F-35 will be equivalent to a similarly equipped F-16 Block 60 or F-18 fighter. That would be around $60 million in current dollars.
But the fear of concurrency remains, particularly since there has been no apparent relaxation in the target date of 2012 for initial operating capability (IOC) of the F-35B with the U.S. Marine Corps. The planned IOCs for the U.S. Air Force F-35A and U.S. Navy F-35C are both in 2016, using Block 3 software.
Thanks Spaz for that research. Answered all my mode questions. Seems pretty automatic, you just point at the pointy end of the ship, throttle up and away she goes..... Still seems the ramp has the advantage of putting the aircraft on the correct trajectory towards purely wingborne flight.
Always a positive making the aircraft easier and intuitive to fly, but the down side seems to put so much on the flight control software and mode. More than one case of the plane (or the pilot) thinking they are in a certain mode, but they are not, or a simple sensor fault leading to erroneous inputs (like the water in the B-2 airspeed indicator on Guam). It's all great until the computer thinks otherwise...
Always a positive making the aircraft easier and intuitive to fly, but the down side seems to put so much on the flight control software and mode. More than one case of the plane (or the pilot) thinking they are in a certain mode, but they are not, or a simple sensor fault leading to erroneous inputs (like the water in the B-2 airspeed indicator on Guam). It's all great until the computer thinks otherwise...
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SD (great spot on the planet eh - spent a few weeks there early 1973 - just like our Oz east coast) from my reading and the Rusnok quote above "pilot can intervene". However especially in STOVL Mode the computer does limit pilot input in case too much is asked. Anyhoo 'Engines' mentioned earlier that the roll posts were shut off for STO. The Americans have not mentioned this to my limited knowledge so far for their Flat Deck STO testing. I'm still mystified by throttle settings - meanwhile here is another quote:
CVF ski-jump ramp profile optimisation for F-35B A. Fry, R. Cook and N. Revill, FEBRUARY 2009 VOLUME 113 NO 1140
RAeS
CVF ski-jump ramp profile optimisation for F-35B A. Fry, R. Cook and N. Revill, FEBRUARY 2009 VOLUME 113 NO 1140
"...1.4 F-35B STOVL lift and propulsion system
The F-35B has a number of unique elements that facilitate its STOVL capability, and these are critical in the optimisation of a ski jump ramp profile for the aircraft. A basic description of the layout and function of the lift and propulsion system is shown in Fig. 2 and described below:
● a Lift Fan driven by a shaft from the main engine which provides vertical lift through a variable area vane box nozzle using louvered vanes to vector thrust between vertically downwards and partially aft.
● a three-bearing swivel module (3BSM), which vectors the main engine exhaust thrust from the core engine through vertically downwards to fully aft – the latter being the default for conventional mode flying.
● roll nozzles, ducted from the engine and exiting in each wing providing roll control and vertical lift. These are closed off during the initial portion of the short take-off (STO) in order to maximise forward thrust from the main engine, opening towards the end of the ramp in order to provide control and lift during the fly out...."
The F-35B has a number of unique elements that facilitate its STOVL capability, and these are critical in the optimisation of a ski jump ramp profile for the aircraft. A basic description of the layout and function of the lift and propulsion system is shown in Fig. 2 and described below:
● a Lift Fan driven by a shaft from the main engine which provides vertical lift through a variable area vane box nozzle using louvered vanes to vector thrust between vertically downwards and partially aft.
● a three-bearing swivel module (3BSM), which vectors the main engine exhaust thrust from the core engine through vertically downwards to fully aft – the latter being the default for conventional mode flying.
● roll nozzles, ducted from the engine and exiting in each wing providing roll control and vertical lift. These are closed off during the initial portion of the short take-off (STO) in order to maximise forward thrust from the main engine, opening towards the end of the ramp in order to provide control and lift during the fly out...."
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Boy, Do I want To Get Away From Being The Trillion Dollar Airplane: Bogdan
10 Jul 2014 Colin Clark
Boy, Do I want To Get Away From Being The Trillion Dollar Airplane: Bogdan « Breaking Defense - Defense industry news, analysis and commentary
10 Jul 2014 Colin Clark
"...On the topical question of whether the Marine version of the F-35 would appear at RIAT or at Farnborough, Bogdan was carefully neutral while indicating he hoped the four planes would fly here from Naval Air Station Patuxent River as long as they were cleared for safe flight by NavAir....
...PIlots are standing by and could take off immediately should the green light be given, he added...."
...PIlots are standing by and could take off immediately should the green light be given, he added...."
.
The General may hate the trillion-dollar tag, but his contractor started it...
Jet Makers Preparing Bids For a Rich Pentagon Prize - NYTimes.com
Jet Makers Preparing Bids For a Rich Pentagon Prize - NYTimes.com
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To add to the question here: http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...ml#post8556721 about the two STO Throttle positions here is some other info about dem rollyposts.
Powering the Lightning II April 2012 Chris Kjelgaard
http://militaryrussia.ru/forum/downl...e.php?id=28256 (PDF 14Mb)
Powering the Lightning II April 2012 Chris Kjelgaard
"...According to Jones, the roll posts themselves are variable-area nozzles which are situated in the lower part of each inner wing section and act to provide roll control for the F-35B while it is in hover mode. In order to do this, the roll-post ducts direct bypass air from the engine to the roll posts, which drive the air out through the bottom of each wing. In the F-35B, 3,700lb (16.46kN) of thrust in the form of bypass air is directed out to the two roll posts while hovering.
Each roll-post assembly features a pair of flap-type doors in the bottom of the wing, controlled by the FADEC. Jones says these titanium doors are controlled by rotary actuators which allow fully variable opening, providing a degree of thrust variability and directionality so that the pilot can control roll while hovering. He says Lockheed Martin’s original X-35 concept demonstrator featured doors between the engine casing and the roll-post ducts which could be closed when the aircraft was not hovering, but in production aircraft there are no such doors and bypass airflow is constantly sent to the ducts. The only way to control roll-post thrust is via the flap-doors in the bottom of the wing...."
Each roll-post assembly features a pair of flap-type doors in the bottom of the wing, controlled by the FADEC. Jones says these titanium doors are controlled by rotary actuators which allow fully variable opening, providing a degree of thrust variability and directionality so that the pilot can control roll while hovering. He says Lockheed Martin’s original X-35 concept demonstrator featured doors between the engine casing and the roll-post ducts which could be closed when the aircraft was not hovering, but in production aircraft there are no such doors and bypass airflow is constantly sent to the ducts. The only way to control roll-post thrust is via the flap-doors in the bottom of the wing...."
Last edited by SpazSinbad; 11th Jul 2014 at 18:10. Reason: fmt