Why no helo transport? Are we condemning our diggers to an easy victimology?
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Seems Smith is putting a nice spin on it.
AUSTRALIA'S highest paid public servant, the head of the beleaguered Defence Materiel Organisation Dr Steve Gumley, has resigned. The DMO is responsible for purchasing everything the Australian Defence Force needs, from toothbrushes to tanks, jet fighters and warships.
Defence Minister Stephen Smith has been highly critical of the organisation's performance, in particular over the maintenance of naval supply ships and problems with major projects including the building of three air warfare destroyers.
It is understood the government wants to bring the DMO more directly under the control of the Department of Defence and defence force commanders.
Dr Gumley will be replaced by one of two associate secretaries - effectively super deputies - who will report directly to Defence Secretary Ian Watt.
Full article here.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/defence-materiel-organisation-chied-steve-gumley-quits/story-e6frg8yo-1226089635356
It will be interesting to see if they manage to "bring the DMO more directly under the control of the Department of Defence and defence force commanders."
AUSTRALIA'S highest paid public servant, the head of the beleaguered Defence Materiel Organisation Dr Steve Gumley, has resigned. The DMO is responsible for purchasing everything the Australian Defence Force needs, from toothbrushes to tanks, jet fighters and warships.
Defence Minister Stephen Smith has been highly critical of the organisation's performance, in particular over the maintenance of naval supply ships and problems with major projects including the building of three air warfare destroyers.
It is understood the government wants to bring the DMO more directly under the control of the Department of Defence and defence force commanders.
Dr Gumley will be replaced by one of two associate secretaries - effectively super deputies - who will report directly to Defence Secretary Ian Watt.
Full article here.
http://www.theaustralian.com.au/national-affairs/defence/defence-materiel-organisation-chied-steve-gumley-quits/story-e6frg8yo-1226089635356
It will be interesting to see if they manage to "bring the DMO more directly under the control of the Department of Defence and defence force commanders."
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Frank Riley
Hello Everyone
Frank Riley is my Dad. He died in 1981. He was a very brave man and I am proud of him. I can imagine him bucking the system as reported in these posts. Thank you for remembering Frank.
Have you any other stories about Frank that can be shared?
Regards
Judy
Frank Riley is my Dad. He died in 1981. He was a very brave man and I am proud of him. I can imagine him bucking the system as reported in these posts. Thank you for remembering Frank.
Have you any other stories about Frank that can be shared?
Regards
Judy
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Answering the question: 'Why no helo transport...?'
This has been a thought provoking thread in multiple respects, although a bit marred. The subject question has perhaps been circuitously answered, but here is my crystallisation.
The principal reason has been failure to progressively upgrade/optimise in-service hardware to maintain a continual adequate and credible level of military preparedness. For example; what upgrades have been necessary to Chinook and Blackhawk before they could be deployed on operations?
A secondary reason has been the decline in on-line availability of battlefield helo resources since those assets were transferred from Air Force to Army Aviation in 1989, which has had wide-ranging negative consequences concerning Army field units helicopter training in particular. According to Canberra sources, AAAvn has at times struggled to continually maintain the Chinook detachment in Afghanistan, Blackhawks in East Timor and at Holdsworthy NSW.
The military capacity of all 3 Services was materially weakened by deliberate technical de-skilling and outsourcing of maintenance, as evidenced by the prevailing diabolical situation regarding availability of RAN warships. The RAAF generally does better in terms of aircraft assets availability; but so it should, having been created 90 years ago to provide air services for all 3 armed forces.
The absurd Aerospace Capability Implementation Roadmap – Rotary Wing (ACIR-RW) - a new grandly bureaucratic title - has created glaring capability gaps. This deficient planning was spawned by the Helicopter Systems Division of DMO when headed by AAAvn and completely forsakes operational readiness and cost-effectiveness considerations. That it has been allowed to progress reflects poorly on ADF leadership.
Comments this thread by some from whatever Service regarding 'a pissing contest', handbags, Officers, immature, etcetera are pretty tawdry. For decades now and when still serving, my historical efforts have been directed toward countering a plethora of misinformation concerning Air Force operations in general, including 9SQN activities during the Vietnam War. The problem is thousands of documents have since been generated - including by so-called historians - somewhat based on higher level commander opinions (often seen differently at operating levels), hearsay and third hand accounts which become further distorted when they are used as reference material by authors of publications downstream. If misinformation is repeated often and long enough, it becomes the accepted truth.
Shark 06; I mentioned my times in Vietnam to indicate that I got a fairly broad overview of that campaign, which lasted longer than WW2 for Australian forces. I have seen heated arguments between colleagues regarding how things were done because happenings during their (mostly) single tours in differing time-frames are indelibly imprinted in their brains. War is seldom static and they usually failed to realise that a whole bunch of things changed regarding operating practices or whatever as the campaign moved along.
9SQN enjoyed good rapport with Australian Army aviators - except for a few older corps members - and many enduring friendships evolved. Of course we understood the nature of their operations and they were most welcome to stay with us at Vung Tau, some doing so when they could escape from Nui Dat. And; those of us who represented the Task Force Air Commander at HQ 1ATF were obliged to appreciate the broad nature of how all the air components functioned.
Some seem enthralled by writings on the Fourays website: www.fourays.org. Suffice to say here that some misinformation propagated there regarding the Air Force has already been discredited on this thread and you will find presentation of a Fourays feature articles paper by Wing Commander Martin Sharp, RAF on this more appropriate thread: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...s-history.html at posts #1,2,3; with my critique at posts #16,20,31. See also the first-hand account of the helo transfer decision by Air Marshal Jake Newham at post #12.
Consider the following statement from another Fourays feature article The Tactical Air Support Group, Part 3:
Air Force Caribou did a great job during almost 8 years in Vietnam, largely in support of US Special Forces/Vietnamese military activities; and about 4 years of Canberra bombing involvement, including close air support for 1ATF, is outlined here: RAAF Association National Council - Special Topics - 2 SQN Canberras in Vietnam . The C-130 squadrons also contributed substantially in medevac and logistic support roles, as did LRMP aircraft in largely unspoken activities. 9SQN flew, 58,768 hours over 5.5 years (2,000 days), the highest effort for any RAAF unit in any campaign during the entire 90 year history of the Service. That effort was overwhelmingly in support of 1ATF.
The credibility of The Tactical Air Support Group paper is thus called into question.
End of my engagement this thread and I will soon post some more enlightening material at: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...s-history.html, for public record purposes.
The principal reason has been failure to progressively upgrade/optimise in-service hardware to maintain a continual adequate and credible level of military preparedness. For example; what upgrades have been necessary to Chinook and Blackhawk before they could be deployed on operations?
A secondary reason has been the decline in on-line availability of battlefield helo resources since those assets were transferred from Air Force to Army Aviation in 1989, which has had wide-ranging negative consequences concerning Army field units helicopter training in particular. According to Canberra sources, AAAvn has at times struggled to continually maintain the Chinook detachment in Afghanistan, Blackhawks in East Timor and at Holdsworthy NSW.
The military capacity of all 3 Services was materially weakened by deliberate technical de-skilling and outsourcing of maintenance, as evidenced by the prevailing diabolical situation regarding availability of RAN warships. The RAAF generally does better in terms of aircraft assets availability; but so it should, having been created 90 years ago to provide air services for all 3 armed forces.
The absurd Aerospace Capability Implementation Roadmap – Rotary Wing (ACIR-RW) - a new grandly bureaucratic title - has created glaring capability gaps. This deficient planning was spawned by the Helicopter Systems Division of DMO when headed by AAAvn and completely forsakes operational readiness and cost-effectiveness considerations. That it has been allowed to progress reflects poorly on ADF leadership.
Comments this thread by some from whatever Service regarding 'a pissing contest', handbags, Officers, immature, etcetera are pretty tawdry. For decades now and when still serving, my historical efforts have been directed toward countering a plethora of misinformation concerning Air Force operations in general, including 9SQN activities during the Vietnam War. The problem is thousands of documents have since been generated - including by so-called historians - somewhat based on higher level commander opinions (often seen differently at operating levels), hearsay and third hand accounts which become further distorted when they are used as reference material by authors of publications downstream. If misinformation is repeated often and long enough, it becomes the accepted truth.
Shark 06; I mentioned my times in Vietnam to indicate that I got a fairly broad overview of that campaign, which lasted longer than WW2 for Australian forces. I have seen heated arguments between colleagues regarding how things were done because happenings during their (mostly) single tours in differing time-frames are indelibly imprinted in their brains. War is seldom static and they usually failed to realise that a whole bunch of things changed regarding operating practices or whatever as the campaign moved along.
9SQN enjoyed good rapport with Australian Army aviators - except for a few older corps members - and many enduring friendships evolved. Of course we understood the nature of their operations and they were most welcome to stay with us at Vung Tau, some doing so when they could escape from Nui Dat. And; those of us who represented the Task Force Air Commander at HQ 1ATF were obliged to appreciate the broad nature of how all the air components functioned.
Some seem enthralled by writings on the Fourays website: www.fourays.org. Suffice to say here that some misinformation propagated there regarding the Air Force has already been discredited on this thread and you will find presentation of a Fourays feature articles paper by Wing Commander Martin Sharp, RAF on this more appropriate thread: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...s-history.html at posts #1,2,3; with my critique at posts #16,20,31. See also the first-hand account of the helo transfer decision by Air Marshal Jake Newham at post #12.
Consider the following statement from another Fourays feature article The Tactical Air Support Group, Part 3:
'...It could be said that apart from the Caribou Squadron, RAAF involvement in Vietnam was almost inconsequential to the conduct of Australian ground operations in a war that was essentially a ground conflict...'
The credibility of The Tactical Air Support Group paper is thus called into question.
End of my engagement this thread and I will soon post some more enlightening material at: http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...s-history.html, for public record purposes.
Last edited by Bushranger 71; 22nd Jul 2011 at 22:48.
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ARH Moving Forward
From Courier Mail 22 Jul 11
THE Federal Government and Australia's military brass are under growing pressure to send the Australian Army's Tiger attack helicopters to Afghanistan after the machines proved during high-level war games they are ready to fight.
The new Tigers are not fully accepted into operational service, but they have performed so well at this month's biennial military exercise with US forces at Shoalwater Bay that one senior officer has pronounced them "ready for war".
The key sticking point remains the controversial issue of night vision equipment, but the choppers are more than ready for daytime operations in Afghanistane.
However, senior officers are refusing to consider deploying them until that night vision capability is fully integrated and operational.
"This aircraft is capable of fighting in Afghanistan - by day - right now," said the officer in command of the Darwin-based 1st Aviation Regiment's 162 Reconnaissance Squadron, Major Hayden Archibald.
"This exercise shows that the capability is mature and can integrate seamlessly into the army's battle field systems," he told The Courier-Mail.
"We have fired and deployed all our weapons with a high level of success and we are ready to support our troops."
Built in Brisbane by Eurocopter subsidiary Australian Aerospace, the Aussie Tiger is one of the most advanced attack helicopters in the world.
Eight Tigers from the 1st Aviation Regiment's force of 12 have deployed to Rockhampton with Battle Group Cavalier.
That group also includes 10 Blackhawks from the Sydney and Townsville based 6 and 5 Aviation Regiments and seven Kiowa helicopters.
According to Major Archibald, the Tiger has performed brilliantly during the intense exercises and he rates it above the much heavier US-built Apache attack helicopter.
The Tigers have "live" fired all three of their weapons systems, the 30mm canon, rockets and Hellfire laser guided missile, to great effect at ranges from 1000m to 8000m.
The sleek, tandem machine is designed for attack, reconnaissance and security roles and flies with a pilot up front and a gunner behind and above.
Both crew are qualified pilots but the front seat is the pilot station and he also operates the "self protection" 30mm canon that is linked to his helmet mounted sight display so that whatever the pilot sees is what the gun hits with high precision.
The gun can fire 660 rounds a minute and the Tiger typically carries about 400 rounds as well as 33 rockets and four missiles.
"We can deal with most threats," Major Archibald said.
Talisman Sabre has thrown up some spare parts challenges for the Tigers, but that is unlikely to be a problem for any machines deployed to a war zone.
"I would love to go to Afghanistan tomorrow with the Tigers," Major Archibald said. "This machine is good to go. It is a wonderful aircraft to fly and is so well built for the attack role."
One of the $40 million Tigers had a taste of combat yesterday when an anti-war protester broke into Rockhampton airfield and attacked a $40 million helicopter with a garden mattock.
The protester, Bryan Law from Cairns, allegedly pierced the skin of the high-tech machine - made from composite material - just below the pilot's side window.
The machine will be out of action for repairs.
The protester was arrested in Rockhampton last week for threatening to damage military helicopters. Despite this, he was able to breach a wire fence and cover more than 50m of open ground to the machine.
Charges are yet to be laid.
The security breach has prompted the army to move all its helicopters from the regional airport to the Shoalwater Bay training area.
Security at the airport is provided by Queensland police, private security contractors and RAAF security staff.
Australian military spokesman Brigadier Bob Brown said the attack was a major security breach but it would not affect the huge Talisman Sabre military exercises.
"It is radical, it is unlawful and it is dangerous and we take this extremely seriously," Brigadier Bob Brown said. "Clearly there has been a security breach."
Mr Law and an accomplice were arrested following the attack and were last night helping police with their inquiries.
THE Federal Government and Australia's military brass are under growing pressure to send the Australian Army's Tiger attack helicopters to Afghanistan after the machines proved during high-level war games they are ready to fight.
The new Tigers are not fully accepted into operational service, but they have performed so well at this month's biennial military exercise with US forces at Shoalwater Bay that one senior officer has pronounced them "ready for war".
The key sticking point remains the controversial issue of night vision equipment, but the choppers are more than ready for daytime operations in Afghanistane.
However, senior officers are refusing to consider deploying them until that night vision capability is fully integrated and operational.
"This aircraft is capable of fighting in Afghanistan - by day - right now," said the officer in command of the Darwin-based 1st Aviation Regiment's 162 Reconnaissance Squadron, Major Hayden Archibald.
"This exercise shows that the capability is mature and can integrate seamlessly into the army's battle field systems," he told The Courier-Mail.
"We have fired and deployed all our weapons with a high level of success and we are ready to support our troops."
Built in Brisbane by Eurocopter subsidiary Australian Aerospace, the Aussie Tiger is one of the most advanced attack helicopters in the world.
Eight Tigers from the 1st Aviation Regiment's force of 12 have deployed to Rockhampton with Battle Group Cavalier.
That group also includes 10 Blackhawks from the Sydney and Townsville based 6 and 5 Aviation Regiments and seven Kiowa helicopters.
According to Major Archibald, the Tiger has performed brilliantly during the intense exercises and he rates it above the much heavier US-built Apache attack helicopter.
The Tigers have "live" fired all three of their weapons systems, the 30mm canon, rockets and Hellfire laser guided missile, to great effect at ranges from 1000m to 8000m.
The sleek, tandem machine is designed for attack, reconnaissance and security roles and flies with a pilot up front and a gunner behind and above.
Both crew are qualified pilots but the front seat is the pilot station and he also operates the "self protection" 30mm canon that is linked to his helmet mounted sight display so that whatever the pilot sees is what the gun hits with high precision.
The gun can fire 660 rounds a minute and the Tiger typically carries about 400 rounds as well as 33 rockets and four missiles.
"We can deal with most threats," Major Archibald said.
Talisman Sabre has thrown up some spare parts challenges for the Tigers, but that is unlikely to be a problem for any machines deployed to a war zone.
"I would love to go to Afghanistan tomorrow with the Tigers," Major Archibald said. "This machine is good to go. It is a wonderful aircraft to fly and is so well built for the attack role."
One of the $40 million Tigers had a taste of combat yesterday when an anti-war protester broke into Rockhampton airfield and attacked a $40 million helicopter with a garden mattock.
The protester, Bryan Law from Cairns, allegedly pierced the skin of the high-tech machine - made from composite material - just below the pilot's side window.
The machine will be out of action for repairs.
The protester was arrested in Rockhampton last week for threatening to damage military helicopters. Despite this, he was able to breach a wire fence and cover more than 50m of open ground to the machine.
Charges are yet to be laid.
The security breach has prompted the army to move all its helicopters from the regional airport to the Shoalwater Bay training area.
Security at the airport is provided by Queensland police, private security contractors and RAAF security staff.
Australian military spokesman Brigadier Bob Brown said the attack was a major security breach but it would not affect the huge Talisman Sabre military exercises.
"It is radical, it is unlawful and it is dangerous and we take this extremely seriously," Brigadier Bob Brown said. "Clearly there has been a security breach."
Mr Law and an accomplice were arrested following the attack and were last night helping police with their inquiries.
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"Talisman Sabre has thrown up some spare parts challenges for the Tigers, but that is unlikely to be a problem for any machines deployed to a war zone."
Strange comment.
Why not sort out the problem during the exercise ?
Good to see that they are ready to go operational.
Question for those in the know.
1. Why has it taken so long ?
2. Why is the night vision a problem when other countries are using it already ? (or have we gone for something obscure ?)
.
Strange comment.
Why not sort out the problem during the exercise ?
Good to see that they are ready to go operational.
Question for those in the know.
1. Why has it taken so long ?
2. Why is the night vision a problem when other countries are using it already ? (or have we gone for something obscure ?)
.
Hopefully the story has some basis in fact.
However after the Collins class submarine story that proved to be faked provided by defence PR then how could one tell these days?
However after the Collins class submarine story that proved to be faked provided by defence PR then how could one tell these days?
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Mr Law and an accomplice were arrested following the attack and were last night helping police with their inquiries.
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Defence Minister Stephen Smith has just announced that the MRH-90 has been placed on the "projects of concern" list.
Many would say, about five years too late.
And they're "rearranged blocks" in the Air Warfare Destroyer project. Is that like rearranging deckchairs... on the Titanic?
Many would say, about five years too late.
And they're "rearranged blocks" in the Air Warfare Destroyer project. Is that like rearranging deckchairs... on the Titanic?
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I like this bit re the list.
"and all companies involved, including multinationals such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin, are barred from further taxpayer-funded contracts until their project is removed from the list."
All we need now is for defense to write in substantial financial penalties in all future contracts for non delivery !!! It MIGHT stop some people over promising.
.
"and all companies involved, including multinationals such as Boeing and Lockheed Martin, are barred from further taxpayer-funded contracts until their project is removed from the list."
All we need now is for defense to write in substantial financial penalties in all future contracts for non delivery !!! It MIGHT stop some people over promising.
.
