Troops returning from Helmand pay for own flights
Worth pointing out the flights route through Cyprus so that the troops coming home for good can go through decompression at Camp Bloodhound, so Air to Air wouldn't really help.
10,000 troops in, Jan
10,000 troops in, May
10,000 troops in Sept
30,000 seats used, 4 Month tours no R&R
10,000 troops in, May
10,000 troops in Sept
30,000 seats used, 4 Month tours no R&R
It might also encourage a little bit more continuity between consecutive HERRICKs.
R&R
Soldier magazine has an article from an AH Sqn ref this subject and a completely unsatisfactory response from the wrong person who has effectively said not my problem, speak to JHC.
SOLDIER AUG 2010_NP.pdf
(not the easiest of formats to use, I reccommend using full screen mode and zoom).
SL
SOLDIER AUG 2010_NP.pdf
(not the easiest of formats to use, I reccommend using full screen mode and zoom).
SL
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I believe he is re-iterating policy, clarifying that R&R is a privilege, rather than a right.
If the personnel cannot be spared, then R&R is not possible.
Remember, there are no extra staff to cover these absences, so those left behind must take up the slack. If a unit doesn't have enough people to take up that slack without reducing effectiveness, then no absence can be authorised.
I personally don't think it'll be long before we operate a similar 12 month tour policy as run by the US Armed Forces.
(As for FSTA and A400M, as far as I know both are still on track for the "updated" delivery dates; FSTA - October 2011; A400M ~ 2014?)
If the personnel cannot be spared, then R&R is not possible.
Remember, there are no extra staff to cover these absences, so those left behind must take up the slack. If a unit doesn't have enough people to take up that slack without reducing effectiveness, then no absence can be authorised.
I personally don't think it'll be long before we operate a similar 12 month tour policy as run by the US Armed Forces.
(As for FSTA and A400M, as far as I know both are still on track for the "updated" delivery dates; FSTA - October 2011; A400M ~ 2014?)
Champagne anyone...?
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cessnapete - not sure what dogends of conversation and rumour you've been picking up but most of what you've posted is sensationalist dogs eggs.
Cyprus isn't brilliant and they could do with reopening the aircrew feeder but meals are available in the messes out of hours and the aircraft themselves are rammed full of food anyway. No-one sleeps in unmade rooms.
Facilities at the destination may not be 5 star but plenty of other AT crews cope with them and indeed manage to survive for a month at a time in them without plunging from the sky. Not sure what CAA rules you think are being broken but slip patterns are managed within crew duty regulations, not just randomly made up.
The crews may not like the facilities and conditions they work under but that is mostly tough. Continually citing Flight Safety for everything that irks you serves no purpose and indeed repeatedly crying wolf will eventually bite you on the arse when you have something actually important to highlight.
PS. I'm not an apologist for the "system" or Akrotiri. I'm just a humble AT bloke who's been doing the job for 15 years with plenty of experience of all this stuff. Some people just need to man the f@ck up.
PPS. FSTA will have DAS, slick, non-centreline versions will be bought forward to next year, TriStar binned 2011. StopStarts's SDSR prediction for the day.
Cyprus isn't brilliant and they could do with reopening the aircrew feeder but meals are available in the messes out of hours and the aircraft themselves are rammed full of food anyway. No-one sleeps in unmade rooms.
Facilities at the destination may not be 5 star but plenty of other AT crews cope with them and indeed manage to survive for a month at a time in them without plunging from the sky. Not sure what CAA rules you think are being broken but slip patterns are managed within crew duty regulations, not just randomly made up.
The crews may not like the facilities and conditions they work under but that is mostly tough. Continually citing Flight Safety for everything that irks you serves no purpose and indeed repeatedly crying wolf will eventually bite you on the arse when you have something actually important to highlight.
PS. I'm not an apologist for the "system" or Akrotiri. I'm just a humble AT bloke who's been doing the job for 15 years with plenty of experience of all this stuff. Some people just need to man the f@ck up.
PPS. FSTA will have DAS, slick, non-centreline versions will be bought forward to next year, TriStar binned 2011. StopStarts's SDSR prediction for the day.
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Stoppers
My crews and I have always seemed to manage with the facilities at AKT over the past 15 years or so.
Damn sight more comfortable than some other destinations!
As to in-theatre rooms, most other AT and JHC crews seem to manage during their dets and have been doing so for the last 9 years!
Is this just more evidence of the 'shiny-fleet' complaining because they actually have to support the operations from the sharp end and not a 5 Star hotel in Muscat?
My crews and I have always seemed to manage with the facilities at AKT over the past 15 years or so.
Damn sight more comfortable than some other destinations!
As to in-theatre rooms, most other AT and JHC crews seem to manage during their dets and have been doing so for the last 9 years!
Is this just more evidence of the 'shiny-fleet' complaining because they actually have to support the operations from the sharp end and not a 5 Star hotel in Muscat?
StopStart
UK FTL do not allow consecutive long night sectors with unsatisfactory 24 hr daytime rest.
Odd to me that because of a different paint job it is OK to operate an airliner to lesser standards in the military.
Still what do I know, I'm only a lowly long haul airline pilot!
Odd to me that because of a different paint job it is OK to operate an airliner to lesser standards in the military.
Still what do I know, I'm only a lowly long haul airline pilot!
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Odd to me that because of a different paint job it is OK to operate an airliner to lesser standards in the military.
We have a set of military regulations to ensure that operational flying is conducted as safe as possible - we cannot operate in accordance with civilian regulations and support front-line operations.
I'm fairly sure that the civilian sector has rules about people shooting at you as well
Still what do I know, I'm only a lowly long haul airline pilot!
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Maybe that's the crux of it cessnapete. Some of us are war fighting, some of us aren't. Wars have a different set of rules. If someone doesn't like it then the door is not far away.
Edit - What previous post said..........
Edit - What previous post said..........
Oh dear, with 15,000+ hours of world wide heavy jet flying experience (not all bucket and spade) I thought I knew a bit to comment about flight safety. I obviously don't.
With the attitudes shown on previous posts-time to give in!!
With the attitudes shown on previous posts-time to give in!!
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Kinda makes you wonder don't it? 20 Billion+ quid alone for Trident 2 (which will NEVER fly in anger) and yet we're still moving our troops around the planet in bloody Tristars? Just how much would it really cost to get hold of half a dozen mothballed passenger aircraft (take your pick coz there's plenty sat over in the Mojave sunshine right now Mojave Air and Space Port ), bolt on a DAS and Robert's your Uncle's Brother? Can't be that hard...can it?
(2) Mobilizing a six pack of mothballed airliners is not an exactly easy nor inexpensive undertaking and unless the aircraft were subjected to an in depth inspection and overhaul may well prove no better than the VC 10's in terms of reliability; to say nothing of time and cost of training crews and engineers.
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Cessnapete,
I appreciate that you have 15k hrs of "world wide heavy jet flying experience (not all bucket and spade)". How much of that was in the military world? Any of it since 2003? Genuine questions.
It just seems to me (non aircrew just in case you don't know) that you're trying to set one set of values (from the civilian world) onto another area that you may or may not have experience of. I deliberately ask 'since 2003' as the wars we have and are fighting over the last few years have little in common with the cold war.
I appreciate that you have 15k hrs of "world wide heavy jet flying experience (not all bucket and spade)". How much of that was in the military world? Any of it since 2003? Genuine questions.
It just seems to me (non aircrew just in case you don't know) that you're trying to set one set of values (from the civilian world) onto another area that you may or may not have experience of. I deliberately ask 'since 2003' as the wars we have and are fighting over the last few years have little in common with the cold war.
Cessnapete,
You came onto this thread and made some pretty specific comments, about Tristar crews getting little sleep, shared accommodation, the inability to get food at Akrotiri outside the standard meal times, rooms in Akrotiri not being "made up".....if I remember correctly.
I say "if I remember correctly" because the post isn't there any more, unless I am going blind (possible - I am getting old). I don't suppose you DELETED IT did you? As it is in post 49 Stoppers is replying to comments from you, but at this point you don't appear to have made any.
Stoppers came back and responded to some of your specific comments about Akrotiri, which I see you have made no comment on. Blighter pilot also agreed with him.
Neither Stoppers or Blighter criticised you personally. It was you who brought in all the puerile "..what would I know I'm only a long haul airline pilot..." and "..I've got 15,000hrs+ world wide heavy jet experience..." type comments. Well, Stoppers is Hercs, not Tristars, but I'm sure in the last 15 years he has spent more than 15,000 hours on the ground at Akrotiri and sandy places further east. I am far more likely to believe someone who has been there than a civilian airline pilot, no matter how good or experienced (which is not relevant), who hasn't. Where did you get your information from, a Tristar guy in the pub who was trying to "big up" his time out there.
Come out and defend your comments rather than deleting then, and you might earn some respect.
Oh, by the way, I've also spent many hours on the ground at Akrotiri (and further east), but not that recently, and what Stoppers and Blighter say ties in with my own personal experience.....
Reference your comment about time to give in - please DO!
You came onto this thread and made some pretty specific comments, about Tristar crews getting little sleep, shared accommodation, the inability to get food at Akrotiri outside the standard meal times, rooms in Akrotiri not being "made up".....if I remember correctly.
I say "if I remember correctly" because the post isn't there any more, unless I am going blind (possible - I am getting old). I don't suppose you DELETED IT did you? As it is in post 49 Stoppers is replying to comments from you, but at this point you don't appear to have made any.
Stoppers came back and responded to some of your specific comments about Akrotiri, which I see you have made no comment on. Blighter pilot also agreed with him.
Neither Stoppers or Blighter criticised you personally. It was you who brought in all the puerile "..what would I know I'm only a long haul airline pilot..." and "..I've got 15,000hrs+ world wide heavy jet experience..." type comments. Well, Stoppers is Hercs, not Tristars, but I'm sure in the last 15 years he has spent more than 15,000 hours on the ground at Akrotiri and sandy places further east. I am far more likely to believe someone who has been there than a civilian airline pilot, no matter how good or experienced (which is not relevant), who hasn't. Where did you get your information from, a Tristar guy in the pub who was trying to "big up" his time out there.
Come out and defend your comments rather than deleting then, and you might earn some respect.
Oh, by the way, I've also spent many hours on the ground at Akrotiri (and further east), but not that recently, and what Stoppers and Blighter say ties in with my own personal experience.....
Reference your comment about time to give in - please DO!
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Flight Safety
Cessna Pete
For all your pious mouthing about flight safety, consider this. The Royal Air Force has been operating a variety of transport aircraft world-wide for many years, including to some fairly 'difficult' airfields. In the last 40 years, not one passenger has been lost on normal transport ops. How many airlines can match that?
Before you pontificate on a subject that is beyond your ken, you should -
"Get Some In!"
For all your pious mouthing about flight safety, consider this. The Royal Air Force has been operating a variety of transport aircraft world-wide for many years, including to some fairly 'difficult' airfields. In the last 40 years, not one passenger has been lost on normal transport ops. How many airlines can match that?
Before you pontificate on a subject that is beyond your ken, you should -
"Get Some In!"
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Shame on you, Fincastle.
Fincastle,
...... any sane individual understands that the state of the equipment is the sole responsibility of the useless politicians, supported by the 85,000 useless MOD civil servants.
What a disgraceful remark from someone who should know better. All the MOD civil servants I've met (a lot) have been more committed to defence and more willing to work long hours when necessary than many of my light blue colleagues - and for about half the salary.
Fincastle, you should be ashamed of yourself.
...... any sane individual understands that the state of the equipment is the sole responsibility of the useless politicians, supported by the 85,000 useless MOD civil servants.
What a disgraceful remark from someone who should know better. All the MOD civil servants I've met (a lot) have been more committed to defence and more willing to work long hours when necessary than many of my light blue colleagues - and for about half the salary.
Fincastle, you should be ashamed of yourself.
Champagne anyone...?
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cessnapete - my comments weren't directed at you per se but were more of a sideways glancing blow at the generally unwarranted gurning that tumbles out of Twenty One Six with alarming regularity. You are more than welcome to comment on Flight Safety issues with your 15000+ hrs of to-ing and fro-ing, however don't be offended when its pointed out to you that the "facts" on which you base your arguments are, in fact, hoop. That you deleted your original post suggests that perhaps aren't so confident in your source after all...? 
Don't get on your high horse about being a "lowly airline pilot" - no one has criticised your experience or right to comment but please don't assume that you being an experienced airline pilot makes you any cleverer than those of us that are equally experienced military pilots. I would never presume to tell you how to do your job so don't assume you know the first thing about mine. You're comparing Apples and Hoovers. Similarly, if you think that a slightly sleepy brit mil pilot is going to cause havoc in the airways of the UK then I dread to think what the legions of dodgy foreign charter and cargo aircraft there will do (or indeed, the legions of slightly sleepy UK airline pilots)....
Flight Safety isn't something that any of us thumb our nose at but at the same time, those that the pull the FS card over every minor issue are, frankly, abusing and devaluing the system and do themselves, and the rest of us, absolutely no favours at all
Don't get on your high horse about being a "lowly airline pilot" - no one has criticised your experience or right to comment but please don't assume that you being an experienced airline pilot makes you any cleverer than those of us that are equally experienced military pilots. I would never presume to tell you how to do your job so don't assume you know the first thing about mine. You're comparing Apples and Hoovers. Similarly, if you think that a slightly sleepy brit mil pilot is going to cause havoc in the airways of the UK then I dread to think what the legions of dodgy foreign charter and cargo aircraft there will do (or indeed, the legions of slightly sleepy UK airline pilots)....
Flight Safety isn't something that any of us thumb our nose at but at the same time, those that the pull the FS card over every minor issue are, frankly, abusing and devaluing the system and do themselves, and the rest of us, absolutely no favours at all
OK guys I give me a break, I get the message!!
I just chatted to a mate in the military, he was obviously wrong, and
I'm not qualified to comment on military matters I have no experience of.
End of my posting on the subject.
I just chatted to a mate in the military, he was obviously wrong, and
I'm not qualified to comment on military matters I have no experience of.
End of my posting on the subject.
Last edited by cessnapete; 18th Aug 2010 at 20:52.
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As with at least one of the transport aircraft we fly, the entire training and currency system was I believe based around "What would BA do?" Perhaps listening to how our civilian long haul mates operate would be a good idea.
Certainly getting some civilian airport workers in to explain to Brize movements how to run an airport would seem to make sense to me.
Certainly getting some civilian airport workers in to explain to Brize movements how to run an airport would seem to make sense to me.
