Army Air Corps Co-pilot/ Air Gunner

[NDW]

Very good morning to all,

Does anyone know what educational qualifications are needed for the role of Co-pilot / Air Gunner in the Army Air Corps?

Thanks

[airborne_artist]

Join as AAC groundcrew, and once promoted to Lance Cpl apply for aircrew.

Aviation Crewman - British Army Website refers.

I'm guessing that there are no min reqs other than passing the recruitment tests administered in the recruiting office. GCSEs in Maths and English will help later, though. Note that the Air Gunner does not get to fly the aircraft - it's a Lynx-only role which will normally fly with two pilots and one/two AG.

[GlobalTravellerAT]

Or get yourself GCSE English maths and science at grade c or better and apply to become a WSOp Cmn with the RAF. Get to fly in all RAF helicopters and multiple fixed wing aircraft on better pay and if on SH get to do air gunnery also.

[juliet]

Not sure how you meant your post to be read but to be clear pilot and door gunner are two very separate roles. Think you will find that the requirements for each of these roles are quite different. Check the Army website for details.

[NDW]

Thanks for replies thus far.

GlobalTravellerAT - Regarding the education requirements I already hold 13 GCSE's including English Lang,. at Grade B and Mathematics ( Two GCSE grades) at C (Higher) along with Sciences and Geography.

I have seriously considered all three services and their Aircrew roles, I'm just keeping an open mind regarding all possible careers.

Thanks for all info. that has been given.

NDW

[helidriver]

...also, you don't need any quals to be an AAC pilot becoming a Sgt pilot after serving due 'apprenticeship' in any other trade and fulfilling the basic requirements. These include being a L/Cpl recommended for promotion to Cpl and passing pilot selection and aircrew medical. You cannot be a thicky either path you take. Incidently, many Cpls/Sgts have won best examination results for their pilots cse!!

h

[Future Hunter]

Slight bias here- but it depends what you want to do as to which service you join up in.

If you want to fly for a career, I would recommend the RAF. You'll go in as Sgt Aircrew (paid about £33k after training) and spend your whole career if you wish just flying. You can go in as a sensor op in the ISTAR world hunting for submarines, enemy radars and other stuff you'll learn about in time. Or as a crewman on helicopters in high intensity ops, often under fire and very, very low. AT loadmasters travel all over the world and from what I see have a jolly good time! The best bit is, you can even go in as one and then transfer role if you don't like it as the common training is quite substantial.

The AAC and and RN don't really have career aviators - you'll do time in the ranks before selection to aircrew. Then you'll fly for a bit and eventually be returned to the ranks again. This is especially true of the RN - as they have quite a structured career mapping - but the AAC seem a bit more flexible for NCO pilots who may contnue to fly their whole career.

The best thing to do would be go to the careers office and see all the departments. They won't be offended if you go around all of them on the same day - and they'll give you a better idea of what they are looking for and probably more up-to-date information than this forum can.



I await the flaming from all AAC/RN guys here!

[timex]

FH

The AAC and and RN don't really have career aviators

Not quite true, once you become NCO Aircrew in the either the RN or Army you will stay as such and will fly for most if not all your career, the same applies to most RN Officers and some AAC Officers.

You'll do time in the ranks before selection to aircrew

True.

Then you'll fly for a bit and eventually be returned to the ranks again

Not true.

This is especially true of the RN

Not true Crewman have a career path and their own Branch

The AAC seem a bit more flexible for NCO pilots who may continue to fly their whole career.

True.

[minigundiplomat]

spend your whole career if you wish just flying.

If only...

The best bit is, you can even go in as one and then transfer role if you don't like it as the common training is quite substantial.

Absolute horsesh1t. The training for each role is very diverse, and a 24 week generic fiasco at Cranwell does not propare you for any role. Added to which OCF or OCU's have a fixed return of service, and there are people at Benson and Odiham who have been waiting for a move their whole career, but as long as they have a med cat, they have no chance of a change of role.

If you have any more ill researched advice, or generally want to offer duff gen from a poorly informed perspective then feel free to keep the nuggets coming.

[airborne_artist]

RN FAA has been muttering about introducing direct-entry NCA but I don't believe anything is likely to change soon.

[NDW]

Once again, thanks for all your replies.

A_A, do you know what the current state in the RN FAA is to apply for NCA Aircrew, I'm presuming that it will be in some way similar to the AAC?

Thanks

[airborne_artist]

You join as a rating, any branch, and once confirmed as a killick (Leading Hand) you can apply, I'm fairly sure, though the numbers applying are fairly high, I seem to recall. As with the AAC there is no guarantee that you'll ever leave the ground.

My advice at this stage would be to try for RAF NCA for starters - 13 GCSEs is almost twice the number I had when I joined, and that that time you could join as a Short Service aircrew Rupert with just five, so long as you could walk and chew gum at the same time

Are you sure? Surely with the introduction Merlin Mk 3 they need to nigh-on double their quota of aircrewmen?

Nothing listed on the RN career website right now. I doubt with the anticipated cuts that the RN will actually see an expansion in Junglie rear-crew, and anyway some of the light-blue NCA may fancy moving to Zummerzet.

[NDW]

Thank you all so much for all your advice!!

Can anyone shed some final light into the fact that RAF NCA need A levels?

I can see from the RAF website that it states 5 GCSE's inc. Maths, English & Science, but TBH I've heard so much rumours that the RAF is only accepting NCA with A levels, I'm beginning to get totally confused.

I'm keeping all options open and as many have said, I will visit all three joint AFCO's to see what they say.

AA, to be honest my GCSE's aren't the greatest at all, I only have one grade B and the rest are C's, D's and E's, nothing to proud off what so ever, but they are the minimum.

A career in Military Aviation is really what I'm aiming for, and after being given my latest eyesight check-up results, It's hopefully all steam ahead from here-on in.

Thanks

[Unchecked]

You will not need A levels for RAF NCA. You will, however, need 5 GCSEs at C level in Maths, English and science related subjects, as well as an aptitude, leadership potential, social ability and fitness required to pass the OASC tests and interviews that you can read about in the sticky thread at the top of the page.

[Aerouk]

NDW,

Why don't you go to College or do a part time A-Level course and pick up a few extra qualifications then? You're only 18, got plenty of time to apply.

[camelspyyder]

NCA

Dont listen to rumours about who the RAF are accepting for NCA because the answer in reality is nobody, at least until the Defence Review in October. Whichever fleets get binned, there are going to be a lot of spare WSOps about ripe for re-training, which reduces the need to recruit new ones.

What you will need for NCA right now is a lot of patience. There are few (no?) RAF vacancies at present, so I would recommend applying to all 3 services whilst improving your quals or getting a real job.

Good Luck

CS

[Yozzer]

Future Hunter:

spend your whole career if you wish just flying

You clearly have not been in long enough to know how many ground jobs are manned by NCA and not all are a welcome respite from the front line. I have done 2 tours on the ground, one was unexpected but quite nice and the other a nightmare. ....and that is despite being highly qualified in my airbourne role with Q ticks numerous and an A2 certificate hidden somewhere. In short, it was a sh*** job but somebody had to do it, and that person had to be NCA.

[davejb]

If you can pass the selection procedure, which for NCO aircrew you are overly qualifed for (English, Maths, Science - anything else just gives the selection board something to talk about) then just go do it, RAF will give you better pay, higher rank, from the get go.

I would expect any compos mentis selection board to ask you why you have 13 quals at O level, at the age of 18, rather than say 5-8 at O level and 3-5 at A level, so you might like to get the answer to that one ready.... that's not meant as a criticism, but if I were on the board that'd be a q I asked, so best be ready to answer it.

[NDW]

WOW!!, All these replies are really really appreciated. Thanks to all.

I'm certainly getting a better view on what I should be looking at for an Aircrew career (If I make the cut that is).

Right, here's my current situation.

I have 13 GCSE's and soon to have 2 AS Level grades (as of next week).

I'm currently in part-time employment working for a local flying school, however they have said they would like to extend my hours and working days.

I also recently had my eyesight checked by a ex RAF optician now turned private, met him through my work, and he said my eyesight was short sighted for Pilot, but fine for all other Aircrew trades, which as I'm sure you are all aware is a massive weight of anyone's shoulders to know your eyesight is still OK .

I left my local college in June this year, to try and complete my A2 levels elsewhere, however this was not to be, as all the colleges and Sixth forms are completely full, most even have waiting lists with up to 200 people on.

As said in a previous post, as I am now 18.5 years , unfortunately I would be made to pay for my education and at the moment, I have my driving test in a few weeks along with paying for driving lessons, so it's not as easy to get onto the courses now.

Don't get me wrong education is important, however I feel that I can prove to the AFCO's that I feel that I am the right man for the job, the education side of things is important, yes, but they are just a stepping stone and filter as said in previous topics.

Davejb, I totally appreciate your comment and thank you for it, I will have to think hard about why I have 13 GCSE's and not 5-8 GCSE's and 2-3 A levels, but I feel that I can provide honestly why that is.

As said in all my other posts on this thread, thank you all ever so much and please keep the info. and comment coming, all your comments mean alot.

NDW

[airborne_artist]

On the GCSEs - how many are C grade or higher? I don't want to appear bullying, but D, E etc grades don't truly count as GCSEs in the real world, I'm afraid.