Promotion on the retired list
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Promotion on the retired list
In doing a little family research, I find that a distant relative in the RN was promoted to Rear Admiral on the retired list. Would someone in the know please tell me what the reasons for this might be and what the implications are.
After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again
(That CF 18 was not an excellent landing!)
After an excellent landing you can use the airplane again
(That CF 18 was not an excellent landing!)
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If the promotion occurred before 1864, your relative may have been what was known as a 'Yellow Admiral' - a Post-Captain who had reached the top of the seniority list (and therefore was next in line for promotion under the rigid seniority rules), but who was not considered suitable for an executive position; such officers were automatically promoted, but then immediately placed on the retired list to make way for a more junior Post-Captain to take the promotion (to the rank of Rear Admiral of the Blue Squadron) into an active appointment.
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What Mystic Greg says:
Order in Council, No. 11-C.
At the Court at Osborne House, Isle of Wight,
The 4th day of August 1873.
Present: The Queen's most Excellent Majesty in Council.
Whereas there was this day read at the Board a memorial from the Right Honourable the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty, dated the 1st of August 1873, in the words following, viz.:-
Whereas in Your Majesty's Order in Council of 22nd February 1870, governing the promotion and retirement of Flag Officers and others of Your Majesty's Fleet, clause six of section two appoints as follows:
1. Captains retired from that rank to be entitled to rise by seniority to the rank of Retired Rear-Admiral, if before retirement they had served the time to qualify them for promotion.
2. And whereas we are of opinion that this condition may be modified, we humbly propose to Your Majesty that the clause above recited be cancelled, and the following substituted:-
3. Captains who have been, or who may in future be, retired from the rank under Your Majesty's Order in Council of 22nd February 1870, to be entitled to rise by seniority to the rank of Retired Rear-Admiral if they have served three years as Captain in command of a Ship-of -War at sea.
More at info: Navy List - June 1879
Order in Council, No. 11-C.
At the Court at Osborne House, Isle of Wight,
The 4th day of August 1873.
Present: The Queen's most Excellent Majesty in Council.
Whereas there was this day read at the Board a memorial from the Right Honourable the Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty, dated the 1st of August 1873, in the words following, viz.:-
Whereas in Your Majesty's Order in Council of 22nd February 1870, governing the promotion and retirement of Flag Officers and others of Your Majesty's Fleet, clause six of section two appoints as follows:
1. Captains retired from that rank to be entitled to rise by seniority to the rank of Retired Rear-Admiral, if before retirement they had served the time to qualify them for promotion.
2. And whereas we are of opinion that this condition may be modified, we humbly propose to Your Majesty that the clause above recited be cancelled, and the following substituted:-
3. Captains who have been, or who may in future be, retired from the rank under Your Majesty's Order in Council of 22nd February 1870, to be entitled to rise by seniority to the rank of Retired Rear-Admiral if they have served three years as Captain in command of a Ship-of -War at sea.
More at info: Navy List - June 1879
Incidentally, he had a VC
Now come on, Flash - that's a lot more than "incidental", quite apart from narrowing the field considerably - and discernibly!
Jack
Now come on, Flash - that's a lot more than "incidental", quite apart from narrowing the field considerably - and discernibly!
Jack
Incidentally a VC!!!!!
There is a well recorded incident of a rather pompous Army officer who referred to a junior with the words........ ' and he won a tolerably good VC'
However, it is possible that Flash's relative was promoted to Rear Admiral so that he could undertake some work for the Admiralty, perhaps with a short period of uniformed service and the promotion was, therefore, effectively 'supernumerary' to the establishment of rear admirals. An example might be 'Extra Equerry to the King'
O-D
However, it is possible that Flash's relative was promoted to Rear Admiral so that he could undertake some work for the Admiralty, perhaps with a short period of uniformed service and the promotion was, therefore, effectively 'supernumerary' to the establishment of rear admirals. An example might be 'Extra Equerry to the King'
O-D
Who was he? Claude Dobson VC?
Dobson retired in 1935 and was promoted on the retired list in 1936, so I'm guessing he might be the man (he died relatively young, aged 55, in June 1940 and the Times carried an obit - not particularly detailed on post-VC career, or on reason for promotion - on 27th of that month).
Of course, if this isn't the right chap...
Dobson retired in 1935 and was promoted on the retired list in 1936, so I'm guessing he might be the man (he died relatively young, aged 55, in June 1940 and the Times carried an obit - not particularly detailed on post-VC career, or on reason for promotion - on 27th of that month).
Of course, if this isn't the right chap...
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However, it is possible that Flash's relative was promoted to Rear Admiral so that he could undertake some work for the Admiralty
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In the OZ forces, up to a point some years ago (but prior to my retirement!), if the commissioned retiree served through to retirement age, he went on to the RL in the next rank up, presumably unless some nasty type had blacklisted him.
Now I can't say that we copied everything that you lot did/do, but between the wars you might have thought so. Best explanation I can think of.
Edited to say that I found the thread on RAF retirement after I had posted this. Seems similar to our now defunct set-up.
Now I can't say that we copied everything that you lot did/do, but between the wars you might have thought so. Best explanation I can think of.
Edited to say that I found the thread on RAF retirement after I had posted this. Seems similar to our now defunct set-up.
The Other Way Round
Of course the opposite to promotion whilst retired, is/was the Navy's brutal but probably more honest, formal 'passing over' of officers who didn't make commander by a given seniority.
The individual affected would sometimes organise a bender of monumental proportions (called The Feast of the Passover) and they were released from all sorts in inhibitions, knowing that their career would not be in peril.
There are cases even of officers who, having been passed over, suffered a forfiture of seniority which put them back in the promotion zone and they were picked up the second time round (not anymore though).
Anybody got any experience of this?
The individual affected would sometimes organise a bender of monumental proportions (called The Feast of the Passover) and they were released from all sorts in inhibitions, knowing that their career would not be in peril.
There are cases even of officers who, having been passed over, suffered a forfiture of seniority which put them back in the promotion zone and they were picked up the second time round (not anymore though).
Anybody got any experience of this?
Anybody got any experience of this?
Not exactly the same phenomenon, but see my Post No 17 at http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ours-list.html and specifically the last para.
So far as being "passed over" is concerned, I believe that the USN has even tougher rules, whereby any officer who "fails to select" twice is either retired or taken off active duty after six months!
Jack
Not exactly the same phenomenon, but see my Post No 17 at http://www.pprune.org/military-aircr...ours-list.html and specifically the last para.
So far as being "passed over" is concerned, I believe that the USN has even tougher rules, whereby any officer who "fails to select" twice is either retired or taken off active duty after six months!
Jack
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UJ, Thanks for "Post 17" I had missed that before.
To go back to the original question. Whilst not quite the same I do know of two Lt/Cdrs RNR who have both been promoted to Cdr whilst on the Retired List. One so he looked more important as High Sheriff of his county of residence and another to fullfill duties on his FTRS job that were more in line with his civvy profession than his naval specialisation. (The former officer's promotion may be an honourary one.) In addition to all that, Mrs DD retired as a Lt/Cdr but is on the List as a Cdr as she had held acting rank for more than 2 years.
To go back to the original question. Whilst not quite the same I do know of two Lt/Cdrs RNR who have both been promoted to Cdr whilst on the Retired List. One so he looked more important as High Sheriff of his county of residence and another to fullfill duties on his FTRS job that were more in line with his civvy profession than his naval specialisation. (The former officer's promotion may be an honourary one.) In addition to all that, Mrs DD retired as a Lt/Cdr but is on the List as a Cdr as she had held acting rank for more than 2 years.
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Originally Posted by Union Jack
So far as being "passed over" is concerned, I believe that the USN has even tougher rules, whereby any officer who "fails to select" twice is either retired or taken off active duty after six months!
http://www.rand.org/pubs/technical_r...RAND_TR264.pdf
