Where does Duty of Care cease?
Thread Starter
Thank you all for your considered replies.
I am still not sure if it is possible to produce a clear definition, the excellent examples given are, I think, judgements by responsible people, ie people who feel they have a responsibility for the safety of others.
The fall down will be where someone does not believe that responsibility lies with them (I have heard it described as 'slopey shoulder syndrome') and in the cold light of an investigation it turns out that actually they are responsible.
Some replies on here from operators presumably do give me pause for thought wrt to Duty Holder as described by Chris Kebab, Squidlord et al. Do you think it unreasonable that someone should not be responsible for ensuring that an aircraft is airworthy/fit to fly/safe? I deliberately use those terms because I think they will mean different things to different people.
If it is reasonable for that responsibility to be imposed, where do you think it lies?
I am still not sure if it is possible to produce a clear definition, the excellent examples given are, I think, judgements by responsible people, ie people who feel they have a responsibility for the safety of others.
The fall down will be where someone does not believe that responsibility lies with them (I have heard it described as 'slopey shoulder syndrome') and in the cold light of an investigation it turns out that actually they are responsible.
Some replies on here from operators presumably do give me pause for thought wrt to Duty Holder as described by Chris Kebab, Squidlord et al. Do you think it unreasonable that someone should not be responsible for ensuring that an aircraft is airworthy/fit to fly/safe? I deliberately use those terms because I think they will mean different things to different people.
If it is reasonable for that responsibility to be imposed, where do you think it lies?
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Harley Quinn:
FWIW, I am a safety engineer, rather than operator, and one of my clients is the MoD. I am an expert in the technical side of safety but I also have to be involved in the "administrative" side, not surprisingly. So, as well as the technical stuff, I should know where responsibilities for safety sit, and I should understand a term like "Duty Holder".
One of the (administrative) things that encourages safety is very clear delineation of responsibility for safety. In particular, for acceptance of risk (since any, e.g., aircraft will always operate with a degree of risk to life and limb). Without this clear responsibility, it's much easier for things to slip between the cracks. Things such as unacceptably high risks.
So, I think it is a very good idea that one senior individual should take overall responsibility for the safety of, e.g., an aircraft (which is not to say that lots of other people, e.g. the likes of me, don't also have some responsibility).
That's the sense in which I usually hear the term "Duty Holder" being used.
Whilst a UK military system is in procurement, I would suggest it is with the relevant PT Leader (or, sometimes, suitably qualified and senior delegated PT member). And that's where the responsibility does seem to sit in practice. Once in-service, for UK military aircraft, the relevant AOA seems appropriate to me but I tend not to work so much on the in-service side so take that with a pinch of salt.
Some replies on here from operators presumably do give me pause for thought wrt to Duty Holder as described by Chris Kebab, Squidlord et al.
Do you think it unreasonable that someone should not be responsible for ensuring that an aircraft is airworthy/fit to fly/safe?
So, I think it is a very good idea that one senior individual should take overall responsibility for the safety of, e.g., an aircraft (which is not to say that lots of other people, e.g. the likes of me, don't also have some responsibility).
That's the sense in which I usually hear the term "Duty Holder" being used.
If it is reasonable for that responsibility to be imposed, where do you think it lies?
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The Mole
Torque Tonight,
If it's the incident I'm thinking about, I don't think it was about falling asleep per se, rather fatigue in general.
Sarah Moland was killed the weekend before graduation from Cranwell, in Nov 1990, aged 25, driving home. As reported to us, she pulled out to overtake a tractor into the path of an oncoming lorry.
A remarkable lady, destined for the Int branch, in her memory there is an IOT prize for the cadet who has "demonstrated qualities of outstanding fortitude and courage during the Course". Not intended to be awarded on every course, this was to be for the exception, and I hope it is still that way.
Sarah is buried in Saint Andrew's Churchyard, Cranwell - RIP
sw
a direct result of an Officer Cadet on a previous course falling asleep at the wheel and ending up dead
Sarah Moland was killed the weekend before graduation from Cranwell, in Nov 1990, aged 25, driving home. As reported to us, she pulled out to overtake a tractor into the path of an oncoming lorry.
A remarkable lady, destined for the Int branch, in her memory there is an IOT prize for the cadet who has "demonstrated qualities of outstanding fortitude and courage during the Course". Not intended to be awarded on every course, this was to be for the exception, and I hope it is still that way.
Sarah is buried in Saint Andrew's Churchyard, Cranwell - RIP
sw
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Pontious Navigator
It is actually law in Cyprus to wear a crash helmet, and;
wear a seat belt, and;
not use a mobile phone when driving, and;
observe speed limits, and;
have an MOT test on your car every 2 years, and;
have car insurance' and;
unfortunately nobody seems to have told the Cypriots yet!!!!!!!!!!!
Hat, coat, gone.................................................
Two more examples: In Cyprus you do not need to wear a motor cycle crash helmet
wear a seat belt, and;
not use a mobile phone when driving, and;
observe speed limits, and;
have an MOT test on your car every 2 years, and;
have car insurance' and;
unfortunately nobody seems to have told the Cypriots yet!!!!!!!!!!!
Hat, coat, gone.................................................
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
NUFC, thank you for that. My comment was based on observation and not legality. That it is law makes it even more incumbent of a supervisor to caution and ultimately prevent a subordinate from increasing the risk of fatal injury to themselves.
