A400 Grizzly
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
The likely result of cancelling the A400M purchase would be the loss of any future EADS work, such as wing components, in the UK.
With BAe out of EADS future work isn't guaranteed, the Spanish in particular angling to take over all UK work share, an A400M pullout would greatly strengthen their hand.
So I would suugest that, politically, it isn't likely to happen; and we're much more likely to be able to sell on our C-130Js than the A400M poroduction slots.
With BAe out of EADS future work isn't guaranteed, the Spanish in particular angling to take over all UK work share, an A400M pullout would greatly strengthen their hand.
So I would suugest that, politically, it isn't likely to happen; and we're much more likely to be able to sell on our C-130Js than the A400M poroduction slots.
Last edited by ORAC; 28th Jul 2010 at 15:04.
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A400M "Cancellation" - more considerations ...
When, a few months ago, the A400M contract(s) were revised, ALL the governments involved also agreed NOT to cut their orders "substantially", i.e. below the reductions agreed in those negotiations. Unilateral cancellation by HMG would involve compensation payments, but also get right up the noses of our partners in the programme. With Mr. Cameron's stated objective of being more effectively active within the EU, the ensuing ruckus could be loud and embarrassing.
And, as ORAC says, there would also be the knock-on effect on EADS work in UK. Broughton and Filton could feel very cold winds a-blowing ...
Also, there's the apparently good progress in proving the aircraft's ability to meet its specs to consider, which would remove the only legally sound reason to cancel ....
And, as ORAC says, there would also be the knock-on effect on EADS work in UK. Broughton and Filton could feel very cold winds a-blowing ...
Also, there's the apparently good progress in proving the aircraft's ability to meet its specs to consider, which would remove the only legally sound reason to cancel ....
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Have to agree with Jig-P and ORAC here: if the UK wanted to get out of this, then the opportunity to do so was missed at the time of the renegotiation last Christmas when Airbus was in contractual default and we could've walked away without (economic) penalty.
I presume that for industrial and political reasons - quite apart from the fact that the A400M Atlas C. Mk. 1 could be very useful - it was decided not to cancel. But gawd help Airbus (not to mention the RAF) if it get further delayed, price increases, (or realistically, both
).
Never mind, we can always save some dosh by leaving refueling kit and DAS off - or in yukspeak, "fitted for but not with" - until we need it... because then we can just buy it off the shelf. Simples!
S41
I presume that for industrial and political reasons - quite apart from the fact that the A400M Atlas C. Mk. 1 could be very useful - it was decided not to cancel. But gawd help Airbus (not to mention the RAF) if it get further delayed, price increases, (or realistically, both
).Never mind, we can always save some dosh by leaving refueling kit and DAS off - or in yukspeak, "fitted for but not with" - until we need it... because then we can just buy it off the shelf. Simples!
S41
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The question is though - with a planned withdrawal from the East as advertised by the Govt will we really need to introduce 22 new Tac AT / Strat Minus platforms within the reduced UK military?
What will our role be? - if numbers and rumours are to be believed then surely 10 C17s (extra airframes to be procured - second hand?) and 30 C130Js (extra platforms purely for specific roles) will be more than enough airlift for UK PLC?
Especially as we are tied in to an expensive PFI for FSTA - there's your Strat AT and AR platform.
Is the A400M required for Britains future reduced defence role?
I don't think it will be.
What will our role be? - if numbers and rumours are to be believed then surely 10 C17s (extra airframes to be procured - second hand?) and 30 C130Js (extra platforms purely for specific roles) will be more than enough airlift for UK PLC?
Especially as we are tied in to an expensive PFI for FSTA - there's your Strat AT and AR platform.
Is the A400M required for Britains future reduced defence role?
I don't think it will be.
Using this thread for some newsbit:
The A400M successfully completed it's ultimate load test on july 22nd.
my source is a german site with picture:
Airbus A400M besteht Flügeltest - FLUG REVUE
You can click on the pic to expand it.
The A400M successfully completed it's ultimate load test on july 22nd.
my source is a german site with picture:
Airbus A400M besteht Flügeltest - FLUG REVUE
You can click on the pic to expand it.
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Originally Posted by Blighter_Pilot
The question is though - with a planned withdrawal from the East as advertised by the Govt will we really need to introduce 22 new Tac AT / Strat Minus platforms within the reduced UK military?
What will our role be? - if numbers and rumours are to be believed then surely 10 C17s (extra airframes to be procured - second hand?) and 30 C130Js (extra platforms purely for specific roles) will be more than enough airlift for UK PLC?
Especially as we are tied in to an expensive PFI for FSTA - there's your Strat AT and AR platform.
Is the A400M required for Britains future reduced defence role?
I don't think it will be.
What will our role be? - if numbers and rumours are to be believed then surely 10 C17s (extra airframes to be procured - second hand?) and 30 C130Js (extra platforms purely for specific roles) will be more than enough airlift for UK PLC?
Especially as we are tied in to an expensive PFI for FSTA - there's your Strat AT and AR platform.
Is the A400M required for Britains future reduced defence role?
I don't think it will be.
We're growing out of the C-130 fast. Even with the imminent pruning it would be better to stick to A400M for it's size and performance/through-life cost benefits over C-130J/C17. Not to mention that although C17 can do rufty-tufty landings like the best of them, its jet engines generally don't like it very much at all.
I would like to see the government tear up the FSTA contract - there must be a hole in it somewhere, or perhaps some sort of overriding national expediency that takes precedent? - and use the A400 for AR while FSTA is robustly renegotiated. Yeah, that's right. Get all RN-SHornet on 'they ass!
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You know, there some real cunninglinguists who post on here.
As JP intimated,
Airbus already have a downer on the UK period.
But when was the last time REAL UK employment mattered to the government when they could massage both the figures and reporting to the MASS media.
GR( into the eighth month and counting.)
As JP intimated,
And, as ORAC says, there would also be the knock-on effect on EADS work in UK. Broughton and Filton could feel very cold winds a-blowing ...
But when was the last time REAL UK employment mattered to the government when they could massage both the figures and reporting to the MASS media.
GR( into the eighth month and counting.)
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Originally Posted by Seldomfitforpurpose
It's hardly a feckin Tardis and stand by to stand by on the cancellation front
Imagine how they must be wishing they had built it on time and on budget
Imagine how they must be wishing they had built it on time and on budget
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22nd October 2010
Possible headlines?
A400M order to be cancelled as UK Armed Forces restructure for a post - Afghanistan posture.
A400M scrapped to pay for independent nuclear deterrent.
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A400M - things happening
Flightglobal reports that the No.3 A400M successfully performed fast taxi runs in July on a surface covered in chalk pellets (as a preliminary to full rough-field trials later this year) on a recently closed former C-160 Transall base south-west of Toulouse - one of several French Air Forces already closed down in their own "cuts" programme.
FG also says that Airbus Military and Thales have been invited to negotiate for an A400M training programme for both air and ground crew. Contract signature due in October 2011. The programme is due to run till 2030. They also mention that UK and France are looking at having a joint training programme, the Armée de l'Air being the first to take delivery of the aircraft.
This, plus the "Telegraph" unconfirmed report may indicate "good things" for the programme. Within UK government, however, the department concerned may well be just going ahead till told to do otherwise, of course ...
FG also says that Airbus Military and Thales have been invited to negotiate for an A400M training programme for both air and ground crew. Contract signature due in October 2011. The programme is due to run till 2030. They also mention that UK and France are looking at having a joint training programme, the Armée de l'Air being the first to take delivery of the aircraft.
This, plus the "Telegraph" unconfirmed report may indicate "good things" for the programme. Within UK government, however, the department concerned may well be just going ahead till told to do otherwise, of course ...
