Military Aviation A forum for the professionals who fly military hardware. Also for the backroom boys and girls who support the flying and maintain the equipment, and without whom nothing would ever leave the ground. All armies, navies and air forces of the world equally welcome here.

Some of the Few

Old 29th Jun 2010, 22:35
  #21 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Scotland
Posts: 62
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Grave Maintenance

Endplay - Graves are still maintained. Some units still maintain graves in their locallity but most military graves post 1947 are now maintained under Regional Prime Contract overseen by Defence Estates.

Graves from WW1 and WW2 are looked after by the CWGC.

TT
Topsy Turvey is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 08:12
  #22 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: SW England
Age: 77
Posts: 3,896
Received 16 Likes on 4 Posts
Member Mary Alexandria Nutley
Women's Royal Air Force, don't know cause of death, but her unit was No 2 School of Navigation & Bomb Dropping.

Nothing to back this up but the date suggests one of the quarter million or so British deaths in the 1918 flu epidemic.
Tankertrashnav is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 08:15
  #23 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Yearning for sun and sea
Age: 82
Posts: 249
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
V1

Walking in a street leading into Lower Sloane Street yesterday, I walked past an inscription on a wall. It took a second to filter into a mind in neutral, so I walked back inscription carved into a large stone set in the wall and read of the 74 US Military personel and 3 civilians (I think the numbers are right) that were killed by a V1 Flying Bomb nearby. I forget the date but it just seemed rather incongruous coming across it out of the blue.

I have never seen any other similar memorial in London but perhaps I've never looked.
GANNET FAN is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 15:40
  #24 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 59
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I have never seen any other similar memorial in London but perhaps I've never looked.
I think they "just fade into the background - there are many memorials around London to the vicitms of the air raids.

For example Bethnal Green underground



There are memorial from the First War as well



This is a photo of the Upper North Street School Memorial - this one is poignant to me as my grandmother, although not a pupil at this school, remembered seeing the survivors being pulled from the debris. She said that they were covered in dust and looked yellow. My grandmother would have been 7 at the time.
November4 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 17:49
  #25 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 2006
Location: UK
Posts: 5,222
Likes: 0
Received 4 Likes on 3 Posts
IIRC there was another underground station in the city that had a similar disaster. I remember as a child in the fifties there was an deserted station, lit only by a few bulbs, where the trains would slow down and crawl through. I forget the name even though it was still on the walls.
Fareastdriver is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 21:32
  #26 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Wiltshire
Age: 59
Posts: 903
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Walking in a street leading into Lower Sloane Street yesterday, I walked past an inscription on a wall. It took a second to filter into a mind in neutral, so I walked back inscription carved into a large stone set in the wall and read of the 74 US Military personel and 3 civilians (I think the numbers are right) that were killed by a V1 Flying Bomb nearby. I forget the date but it just seemed rather incongruous coming across it out of the blue.
Gannet Fan, according to "The Blitz, Then and Now"

The second worst V1 incident, and the one causing the most deaths to military personnel (in this case America) was in Chelsea when the US Army billets at Sloane Court received a direct hit. the bomb struck at 07:47 on Monday July 3 [1944] on the building between Turks Row and Royal Hospital Road, the initial report stating 36 service deaths. However the final total reached 64 dead, 50 seriously injured plus 10 civilian deaths.
November4 is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 22:49
  #27 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Feb 2009
Location: Jungles of SW London
Age: 77
Posts: 354
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
There is some hope.

Although I didn't see mrmrsmith's deleted post, I take it he had made remarks that suggest gravestones have no interest or value? Or perhaps it was simply talking about them that had no interest - no matter.

I am a Scout Leader in south west London and my ten to fifteen year olds are a cross section of our area. The only event we insist our Scouts attend is the Remembrance Ceremony at our local war memorial and, to be fair, a majority of them turn out. The first time they turn out because we have asked them - they turn out in subsequent years because of something else.

Last January a couple of my fellow Leaders and I, took our four Patrol Leaders - all coming up fourteen and a half at the time - to the area around Ieper (Ypres) to visit various first war locations. That evening they jointly laid a wreath, on behalf of our Group, during the Last Post Ceremony at the Menin Gate. I have to say I was very proud of my little gang - freezing in their thin uniforms behind big, strong, roughty-toughty soldiers - who had spent the entire day awed, respectful and even a little tearful at times. We plan to take their successors in October.

They too will remember them.

Roger.
Landroger is offline  
Old 30th Jun 2010, 23:07
  #28 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: London, New York, Paris, Moscow.
Posts: 3,632
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
I didn't see the deleted posts BUT I would be wary of jumping to conclusions too quickly without the benefit of viewing the now moderated evidence, remember this IS someones trainset.

The posts about adoption and taking the youngsters so that they may understand and remember the sacrifices strikes a chord, and I salute those who who are in a position to do so.
glad rag is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 04:50
  #29 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
Age: 85
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Fareastdriver
I remember as a child in the fifties there was an deserted station, lit only by a few bulbs
So do I!
I was told it was "Post Office Station" however it appears to have been renamed "St Paul's" c.1937. As I frequently later used to look for it without success so I suspect it was actually St Paul's temporally closed for refurbishment / repairs. I also remember a gutted station entrance observed from the top of a double decker.

View of Newgate Street entrance, 1939


Newgate Street entrance showing bomb damage, 1943

My minds image is more gutted that this shows but that may have been after more bombing or immediate post war demolition.

Last edited by Pom Pax; 1st Jul 2010 at 04:59. Reason: Adding last sentence.
Pom Pax is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 08:16
  #30 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Location: Location!
Posts: 2,295
Received 33 Likes on 25 Posts
I remember as a child in the fifties there was an deserted station, lit only by a few bulbs

As a quick diversion from this evocative thread, a quick Google suggests that London Underground History - Disused Stations on London's Underground might help to illuminate the dim bulbs and revive other memories.

Jack
Union Jack is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 10:43
  #31 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2002
Location: On the keyboard
Posts: 73
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
waco

I live in Accrington and am planning a visit to the Somme battlefields in October. Just want to see the place where they went over the top....I cannot imagine how they did it. I don't think I could have.
I first visited the Somme four years ago (90th anniversary of the start of the battle) and found it a very moving experience. I suggest you start by visiting the Newfoundland Memorial at Beaumont-Hamel. There is a beautifully laid-out exhibition set in reproduction "Newfie" houses, which very clearly sets the scene and tells the story of that first day.

Having got that picture in your mind, then go and look at the actual trenches (still clearly visible) and the ground over which this one-sided "fight" took place. What staggered me was the tiny size of the area in which so many lives were fruitlessly thrown away.

Not far away is the towering Lutyens memorial at Thiepval, visible for miles around. Look at just some of the names recorded on it - over 73,000 of them. Not the toll of the four-month battle - just those who have no known graves.

I came away understanding fully why that was to be "the war to end all wars". Sadly, the fighting still goes on. So long as there are fanatics (Fascists, Communists, Radical Islamists, Real IRA or whatever the label) who seek to overthrow our way of life by force, our guys and gals will continue to be needed in "foreign fields". Sadly, the loss of life will continue. Thankfully, it should never again be on the scale of the carnage of WW1 - and on the Somme in particular.

Do go waco - and tell your friends about it when you come back.
Vertico is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 11:08
  #32 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: France
Age: 80
Posts: 6,379
Likes: 0
Received 1 Like on 1 Post
I have always been interested in WW1, but it was seeing the play "Accrington Pals" that got me interested in the "Pals" battalions. The only other event I can think of with such a devastating effect on a small area of a city was the loss of the Titanic, some 800 of whose crew came I believe from one area of Southampton.

Last edited by Wander00; 1st Jul 2010 at 13:21.
Wander00 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 11:55
  #33 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Oct 1998
Location: Kalgoorlie, W.A. , Australia
Age: 85
Posts: 458
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
1st July. 1916 The Battle of the Somme

The bar of the "George Inn", Southwark, c. 1960. (Before it became a trendy tourist spot)

Jock (my Father's lunch mate) :-"Tom you known what day it is?"
My Father (a couple or so years younger) :-"Friday"
Jock "The date?"
Father "The 1st of July"
Jock "The Worst day of my Life"
Father "Why?"
Jock "The Somme Tom......terrible.....awful"

The next 2 halves were drunk in silence, then we had Lunch.
Those two probably had been having lunch together 2 or 3 times a week for about 25 years. The subject was never again mentioned.
Pom Pax is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 12:22
  #34 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Mar 2006
Location: West Sussex
Posts: 1,771
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
At Dunsfold Aerodrome, Surrey, like everywhere similar there have sadly been many deaths; on one occasion a B-25 Mitchell coming back from a raid had a hung up bomb – the skipper offered the crew the chance to bail out, but they opted to stay with him.

On touchdown it exploded; the aircraft and no doubt other remains had to be dumped into the nearby canal to quickly clear the runway.

A sadly decreasingly small few who were there at the time try to record what they can, but I know of no memorials other than photo’s taken of their surviving comrades with a B-25 in the 1980’s by my boss.

Another 2 complete crews were lost in a wartime collision ( there must have been many such accidents as bomber groups formated & fighters tried to escort, all over the South & East ) over Denne Hill near Horsham, West Sussex; pieces of metal are again still there, but no memorial I as a local know of, probably a brief mention in the local museum.

One should also not forget more recent losses – in my brief 15 years with Bae in mainly the 1980’s, we lost 2 Test Pilots ( Taylor Scott & Jim Hawkins who have small memorials ) and when at the West Freugh test range, 2 bomb disposal & 1 similar range boat skipper were killed…We never learned their names, just a “sorry for the delay” – they were fighting for their country too…

I have been to the mass graves in France for research - awful atmosphere, but I found Braye, Alderney even worse ( same could be said of Jersey's ' hospital tunnels' ) - the nazi's were building up the breakwater, and guess what happened to the slave labour who perished just as the concrete mix needed material ?

I met a surveyor's daughter whose Dad had been involved in finding out why voids were appearing after 50 years...

We don't plan to revisit in a hurry, but please do realise ' young ' idiots like me do appreciate the sacrifices made for our relatively peaceful time.

Last edited by Double Zero; 1st Jul 2010 at 13:17.
Double Zero is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 12:55
  #35 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Thanks Vertico

Am presently doing my homework, am halfway through Martin Middlebrook's "First day on the Somme". It is very hard to take it all in really. After that it's on to the the After the Battle book on the Somme.

Our new Doctor's surgery has been named "The Accrington Pals" and has a useful history with photographs posted inside.

If you get a chance try and listen to Mike Hardings recording "The Accrington pals" I think you can listen to it on you tube.

As I said before, I doubt very, very much if I could have made it up the ladder and gone over the top. It is our job however to never forget that they did and make sure that message is passed on to the future generations.

Thanks ever so much for your excellent tips. I will post a report on my return hopefully with photo's.

I'm very much looking forward to it. Normally I spend what spare time I can manage crawling around the the 1,4,5 & 6 group Bomber Command airfields.

I have the planned visit to the Somme down on my list of things to do. After that it's save like crazy and lots of car boots to some how find the money and get to Canada for a trip on the CWH Lancaster !

I'm really lucky where I live, I have a great view down the valley into Accrington. I often stand looking down the valley and think of the lads who went over the top.......what would they think of us now I wonder....Have we let them down ???
waco is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 12:59
  #36 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
...........hey all that and I did'nt mention................its 1st July today!

Lads of Lancashire....................

at the going down of the sun

and in the morning

WE WILL REMEMBER THEM.

Smoky town where they were born,
Down in the valley, smoky little streets.
They were pals from childhood days,
Climbing trees and running through the fields.
And they all played together through the turning of the years,
Sharing their laughter, sharing all their fears.
Seasons saw them growing and
Seasons passing turned them round
With the turning, turning, turning years -
The Accrington Pals.

Schooldays' end the lads all went
To work, some spinning, some weaving in the sheds,
On the land or down the pit,
Working hard to earn their daily bread.
And they all went walking up old Pendle Hill,
On Sundays the larks sang high above the dales.
Little Willie Riley played his mandolin and sang,
They were laughing, they were singing then -
The Accrington Pals.

1916 came the call,
"We need more lads to battle with the Hun.
Lads of Lancashire, heed the call,
With God on our side, the battle will soon be won."
So they all came marching to the beating of the drums,
Down from the fields and factories they come,
Smiling at the girls who
Came to see them on their way.
They were marching, marching, marching away -
The Accrington Pals.

Blue sky shining on a perfect day,
A lark was singing, high above the Somme.
Brothers, pals and fathers lay
Watching that sweet bird sing in the quiet of the dawn.
And they all went walking out towards the howling guns,
Talking and laughing, calmly walking on,
Believing in the lies that
Left them dying in the mud,
And they're lying, lying, lying still -
The Accrington Pals.

Smoky town which heard the news,
Down in the valley, smoky little streets.
Houses quiet and curtains pulled,
All round the town a silent shroud of grief.
And the larks were singing still above old Pendle Hill,
The wind was in the bracken and the sun was shining still.
A lark was singing sweetly as
The evening fell upon the Somme.

(spoken) For Edward Parkinson,
Bobby Henderson, Willie Clegg,
Johnny Molloy, Norman Jones,
Albert Berry, Willie Riley -
(sung) The Accrington Pals.
(drum-roll into brass band arrangement of "The
waco is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 15:44
  #37 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: UK
Posts: 12
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Not all forgotten

My first post so apologies if this has already appeared on this forum.

One problem was that a news blackout was often imposed during the war on such tragedies, whether due to enemy action or otherwise. As the years went by, witnesses died or moved away and memories receded. People also preferred to forget deeply distressing incidents in their lives.

However, these omissions can be and are being remedied.

This happened only at the end of our road on 30 April 1941. You can still see the oddly 'pruned' fir tree that finally halted the aircraft's progress.

Home page
Carvair66 is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 15:48
  #38 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Their Target for Tonight
Posts: 582
Received 28 Likes on 4 Posts
Waco,

It was reading Martin Middlebrooke's book that resulted in me standing on Lochnagar crater's edge in 1986 and meeting a very old chap who told me that he had "got out of my trench over there, walked 50 yards, and got shot there"

Been back numerous times since, and it always has the same haunting effect. The crater itself was bought by a Brit, Richard Dunning in the 70's to protect it. There's a small charity, 'The Friends of Lochnagar' that looks after it

Lochnagar Crater - The Official Site
Red Line Entry is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 15:57
  #39 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: home and abroad
Posts: 582
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
Courage is notgoing into battle without fear,
courage is being terrified and still performing one's duty.

We owe so much to those who showed true courage then, and do so now.
While the PC brigade and the revisionists spout their stuff, it is only because of the sacrifices made by those who showed real courage that they are able to do so.

So all those who have a memorial and those who rest in fields or seas unknown,
we will, because we need to, remember them.

Let's not forget that some came back broken, or with scars on their soul, because of what they lived through. It is easy to care for the dead, it is a lot harder to care for the living.
S76Heavy is offline  
Old 1st Jul 2010, 16:05
  #40 (permalink)  
 
Join Date: Dec 1999
Posts: 342
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes on 0 Posts
S76 Heavy

Well put, well said, excellent
waco is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service

Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Use of this site indicates your consent to the Terms of Use.