Lightning & F-15 photo?
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I can confirm that all the Lightnings were camouflaged when Sid was there, we only wore standard flying equipment, we didn't pre-breathe oxygen (unless we were working off a serious hangover, and we just went for it.
We knew the regulator could blow us inside out without pressure jerkins but, if you didn't toggle the mask down, enough of the pressure would leak out the side. You'd be coming down pretty damn fast by then as well, so you didn't have to survive for long!
We knew the regulator could blow us inside out without pressure jerkins but, if you didn't toggle the mask down, enough of the pressure would leak out the side. You'd be coming down pretty damn fast by then as well, so you didn't have to survive for long!
XR749 was silver until circa 1976 - as far as I'm aware "Buzz Lightyear" didn't join the RAF till 1978-79 so he would have been flying said airframe in 1982-83 long after it was painted.
'749 was painted twice in fact, first into green/grey camo in the mid 70's as mentioned and a re-paint into the two-tone air defence grey scheme in 1982.
Here it is at Binbrook on Aug 28th 1982, fresh out of the paint shop.
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Are legends born or created? (1)
In another thread Barnstormer1968 wrote that he had never been in the services - yet he kindly urges us on to create more Lightning legends...
(Two Lightning F1As intercept a U-2, caption to a painting by Michael Turner)
So let's keep going to resolve some of these altitude claims –
Post #65 by Dave Roome has considerable substance with location, speeds and fuel insights. Whereas the posts by Firestreak (#42) & Hale (#16) flying UK based F3s to the stratosphere are at this stage legends; they lack any detail of supersonic flight route, speeds and fuel insights or indeed technique.
A retired USMC aviator who flew the F4 & USMC Harrier amongst his many types emailed me last night ...
Hi, What IAS did he (Roome et al) have at 87,800 ft.? In the F4 it was a 45 degree climb from about 40,000 ft. at Mach 2 or a little faster till the nose started falling through...Burners blew out around 66,000 ft...We wore full pressure suits and would get to around 80,000 ft. having to zero G it over the top at 5 units AOA...
The world record the F4 held was for 98,000+ ft. and my old F4 squadron CO held the record. He was in full AB with a carrier holdback fitting keeping him from moving. When he got down to the proper fuel weight they fired the holdback and off he went. They were up at Dow AFB in Maine in the winter with the outside air temp around minus 20 deg F...
Lots of fiddling is done to set world records!... Semper Fi
Hmmmmmm. Finishes the thread eh?
Lightning and F15 photo thread!
Lightning and F15 photo thread!
(Two Lightning F1As intercept a U-2, caption to a painting by Michael Turner)
So let's keep going to resolve some of these altitude claims –
Post #65 by Dave Roome has considerable substance with location, speeds and fuel insights. Whereas the posts by Firestreak (#42) & Hale (#16) flying UK based F3s to the stratosphere are at this stage legends; they lack any detail of supersonic flight route, speeds and fuel insights or indeed technique.
A retired USMC aviator who flew the F4 & USMC Harrier amongst his many types emailed me last night ...
Hi, What IAS did he (Roome et al) have at 87,800 ft.? In the F4 it was a 45 degree climb from about 40,000 ft. at Mach 2 or a little faster till the nose started falling through...Burners blew out around 66,000 ft...We wore full pressure suits and would get to around 80,000 ft. having to zero G it over the top at 5 units AOA...
The world record the F4 held was for 98,000+ ft. and my old F4 squadron CO held the record. He was in full AB with a carrier holdback fitting keeping him from moving. When he got down to the proper fuel weight they fired the holdback and off he went. They were up at Dow AFB in Maine in the winter with the outside air temp around minus 20 deg F...
Lots of fiddling is done to set world records!... Semper Fi
Last edited by rubberband2; 5th Aug 2010 at 11:19. Reason: Please see #89 for missing aircraft picture
If newt and Dave Roome say they did it, then they certainly would have done so!
It would be a very brave person who would query the word of such experienced WIWOLs to their face!
The RAF's oxygen masks, regulators and partial pressure jerkin / g-suits were held in high esteem by the USAF - particularly by those who had to wear the earlier 'space suit' full pressure suits.
How to pi$$ off a U-2 pilot during pre-oxygenation wearing his space suit and space helmet in the ground prep facility? Stand in front of him and start scratching an imaginary itch on your cheek....
There's also a good Lightning high-flyer article here (written by Porky page): English Electric Lightning Site - Story of the Month
For true high-flying excitement, barring the X-15, the NF-104A must have been the ultimate! See A personal history of the NF-104 AST by its main test pilot, Robert W. Smith - although Yeager hardly covered himself in glory, it would seem....
It would be a very brave person who would query the word of such experienced WIWOLs to their face!
The RAF's oxygen masks, regulators and partial pressure jerkin / g-suits were held in high esteem by the USAF - particularly by those who had to wear the earlier 'space suit' full pressure suits.
How to pi$$ off a U-2 pilot during pre-oxygenation wearing his space suit and space helmet in the ground prep facility? Stand in front of him and start scratching an imaginary itch on your cheek....
There's also a good Lightning high-flyer article here (written by Porky page): English Electric Lightning Site - Story of the Month
For true high-flying excitement, barring the X-15, the NF-104A must have been the ultimate! See A personal history of the NF-104 AST by its main test pilot, Robert W. Smith - although Yeager hardly covered himself in glory, it would seem....
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The Porky Page article looks to me to be totally accurate and realistic. I also concur with his thoughts about going higher.
I never wished to melt my wings going too close to the sun!
I never wished to melt my wings going too close to the sun!
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EW - read Sodddim's post #53 again: his comments remain astute and correct
Are legends born or created? (2)
Painting by Michael Turner – two Lightning F1As intercepting a Lockheed U-2A
The text box attached by the artist reads:
"Surprise, Surprise"
Top secret ballistic interception trials were carried out by the RAF in 1962/3 using two Lightning F1As. The 'target' was an unsuspecting U-2, flying at 72,000' over the Arctic.
Soddim's comments remain apposite whether the interceptor is a Lightning or a Phantom.
One Lightning zoomer states that he brought the throttles to idle/idle at peak height. Now that would have plenty of exciting implications as the 'air turbine' dropped off line and pressurisation became jeopardized .......
Making stuff up is the job of politicians not professional aviators.
The idea that a Lightning could do anything useful at 88,000 feet is preposterous!
At that height it was merely following a ballistic path at the apex of its' trajectory and the only thing that it was able to do was follow the curve earthwords.
At that height it was merely following a ballistic path at the apex of its' trajectory and the only thing that it was able to do was follow the curve earthwords.
Painting by Michael Turner – two Lightning F1As intercepting a Lockheed U-2A
The text box attached by the artist reads:
"Surprise, Surprise"
Top secret ballistic interception trials were carried out by the RAF in 1962/3 using two Lightning F1As. The 'target' was an unsuspecting U-2, flying at 72,000' over the Arctic.
Soddim's comments remain apposite whether the interceptor is a Lightning or a Phantom.
One Lightning zoomer states that he brought the throttles to idle/idle at peak height. Now that would have plenty of exciting implications as the 'air turbine' dropped off line and pressurisation became jeopardized .......
Last edited by rubberband2; 5th Aug 2010 at 09:43. Reason: Missing picture from #84 added
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Here it is at Binbrook on Aug 28th 1982, fresh out of the paint shop.
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TT I am afraid you may have the wrong open day. That one was CAVOK all day long, a clear blue sky in which the Red Arrows did their full show, and no, my Noddy Train didn't encounter any pedestrians.
The only strange met. phenomenon that weekend was that overnight, after the open day, the south west wind got up and blew all the litter off the airfield until it impaled Missile City's chain-link fence. Clearing up the litter then became a linear rather than area job and took, IIRC, about 45 minutes just to walk along and pick the rubbish out of the fence and bag it.
Happy days.
The only strange met. phenomenon that weekend was that overnight, after the open day, the south west wind got up and blew all the litter off the airfield until it impaled Missile City's chain-link fence. Clearing up the litter then became a linear rather than area job and took, IIRC, about 45 minutes just to walk along and pick the rubbish out of the fence and bag it.
Happy days.
Per Ardua ad Astraeus
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Thanks to 'The B Word' for the piccy of an 11Sqn pilot in Friday night attire. 
Despite having never been near to the 'Roome upstairs' environment, a post by Centaurus I think (which I cannot now locate) brought a wry smile to my face by quoting someone trying to avoid a collision with a ?U2? at 80+ by rolling inverted and 'pulling hard' - having been 'semi-ballistic' a couple of times at 65+ on MK6 airtests I'm not sure I could have pulled an elastoplast off my arm at the sort of IAS I saw!
Despite having never been near to the 'Roome upstairs' environment, a post by Centaurus I think (which I cannot now locate) brought a wry smile to my face by quoting someone trying to avoid a collision with a ?U2? at 80+ by rolling inverted and 'pulling hard' - having been 'semi-ballistic' a couple of times at 65+ on MK6 airtests I'm not sure I could have pulled an elastoplast off my arm at the sort of IAS I saw!
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Gentlemen thanks for posting some amazing memories - esp DR! Quite fantastic. Incidentally I had the same Lightning bookmark for years too until my too PC boss removed it. I'd love to know what she look like now!
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OK Rubberband2, you want some details, here goes.
No doubt you are well aware that in the early 70s the Mk3 could have either a 301 or a 302 series Avon, the 302s were known locally as the 'GT'. At the same time, there were what were known as 'tuned' jet pipes. A Mk3 with 302 series engines and tuned pipes (the 'GTS') could be very a slippery a/c, lighter and with less dag than the Mk6.
So, my opportunity came by chance, nothing planned. The brief was for a pair to do some PIs against a jammer then individual AAR and back to the jammer.
The No2 failed to get airborne, the never to beforgotten WHEEEEEEE-PHUT.
I did some PIs and then filled to full on the Victor, literally just as I left the tanker the Canberra broke and had to go home. What would you do with a Lightning full of fuel and nothing to do?
My initial plan was just to get to Mach 2 which I did, then what do you do---like anyone else I pointed it up and just held it. Didn't get as high as Dave R or Brian C, even with a full Mk3 I simply didn't have the gas but I wasn't all that far off.
As an aside, I've seen a photo taken in a Mk3 cockpit with 85 grand on the altimeter so on the right day, anything's possible.
No doubt you are well aware that in the early 70s the Mk3 could have either a 301 or a 302 series Avon, the 302s were known locally as the 'GT'. At the same time, there were what were known as 'tuned' jet pipes. A Mk3 with 302 series engines and tuned pipes (the 'GTS') could be very a slippery a/c, lighter and with less dag than the Mk6.
So, my opportunity came by chance, nothing planned. The brief was for a pair to do some PIs against a jammer then individual AAR and back to the jammer.
The No2 failed to get airborne, the never to beforgotten WHEEEEEEE-PHUT.
I did some PIs and then filled to full on the Victor, literally just as I left the tanker the Canberra broke and had to go home. What would you do with a Lightning full of fuel and nothing to do?
My initial plan was just to get to Mach 2 which I did, then what do you do---like anyone else I pointed it up and just held it. Didn't get as high as Dave R or Brian C, even with a full Mk3 I simply didn't have the gas but I wasn't all that far off.
As an aside, I've seen a photo taken in a Mk3 cockpit with 85 grand on the altimeter so on the right day, anything's possible.
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Firestreak - I call for Custard proof, I don't disbelieve per se - butI wanted to call before the naysayers all get here!
The EE frightening - now them were the days.
The EE frightening - now them were the days.
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All of these claims for extreme altitude attainment are quoting indicated altimeter/mach figures. I am not aware of the Lightning Air Data Computer calibration figures but I doubt that it extended to such levels.
Just a thought
lm
Just a thought
lm
Calibrated or not lm we all knew we had been a lot higher than the published figures. The aircraft could easily out perform the envelope dictated by the safety margins.