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L-100-30

Old 26th Apr 2010, 03:43
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L-100-30

Can a L-100-30 ferry without a loadmaster?
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 03:57
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In FAA-land, yes.

Three crew required, Capt, F/O, F/E...loadmaster optional.
Same as above for a revenue flight.
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 04:07
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Well an air force C130 requires a Loadmaster at all times. A flight safety issue as who would perform the vital monitoring that is required.

As a L100 is only slightly modified from a C130 it could be a real issue, as you could bleed to death or have fire overheat problems with out the normal in flight checks, if you think that the loadmaster is just for when you are carrying cargo and Pax you are way off the mark. Need emergency extension of flaps and landing gear who is going to do it. A fire who will attend to that um I could go on.

The flight deck crew would be too busy with controling the airplane and systems

The armed forces have the rule you can leave the navigator if carried behind but not the LM.

The LM is the best preventative in surance policy you could have, and would be able to handle anything that goes wrong aft of station 245.

Regards

Col
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 04:42
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Plus, who else would make the tea?
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 06:49
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Plus, who else would make the tea?
How about the Nav...oops no nav.
OK, how about the FE - these prima donnas have sat on their aXXes for too long with f-all responsibility.

Last edited by BBadanov; 26th Apr 2010 at 06:50. Reason: add quote
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 08:15
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And you would expect a bite for that eh no chance.....
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 15:01
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OK, how about the FE - these prima donnas have sat on their aXXes for too long with f-all responsibility.
Dunno about the military world, however...in the civvy end of the spectrum, our F/E's are quite busy.
Supervise refueling.
Supervise cargo/baggage loading.
Exterior and interior inspections.
Load and trim sheet.
TOLD card.
Tech and DD log.
All in addition to their inflight F/E duties.

Seems to me that they are quite necessary, and not just prima donnas that sit on their aXXes for far too long.

And no, I'm not a F/E....just a long time line Captain who appreciates our professional F/E's highly.
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 21:39
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Plus they dance with the fat girls....
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Old 26th Apr 2010, 21:46
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Available

Well experienced, fun loving combat vets! C130k Ground Engineer - Any time any place! Slightly under worked at present certainly available in 2 years time!!!
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Old 27th Apr 2010, 05:01
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Well being a long-term (but recently retired) FE, I was proud to sit on my ass!

It meant everything was going nicely thanks.

Whilst you CAN fly without a Loadmaster, I wouldn't of preference. I've been fortunate enough to fly with some really good ones and on the other hand with Gary Seward who categorically made the worst coffee in the world (his plan always was 'then I won't make very many' - he was right!).

Even on TriStars and DC10s we could ferry without crew in the back - the FE got off his fat ass again and did the doors, but I'd much rather have the company. Especially nice were the car thieves from Liverpool when on Caledonian - great girls . . . but I digress.

Fergi - well done!!
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Old 27th Apr 2010, 05:24
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Thanks DD I think!!!!!Agree with you though have flown with many a great loadmaster, worth their salt for sure......GE,s would trust them with anything on the aircraft but making tea not so sure about that, have you seen where their teaspoons have been. Seriously you could probably fly a ferry flight with one pilot but who would want too. 411A you seem to place a lot of trust in your FE's you used to say that you did all the work and would trust no-one.
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Old 27th Apr 2010, 14:29
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Can a L-100-30 ferry without a loadmaster?
TCDS "AS1O" states the minumim crews required:

Pilot, co-pilot and flight engineer.

Since the above crew is all that is required for regular operation, it would be strange that it would not also pertain to "ferry flights".
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Old 27th Apr 2010, 14:44
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Jobs for the boys, the AoA can decide on the crewing as they hold the RTS - the manufacturer releases the responsibility to the AoA. Ask your Boss?
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Old 27th Apr 2010, 20:34
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I wonder why the originator of this post started it, as it either shows that some think the loadmasters duties are minor, or that the loadmaster in addition to his ground duties also performs a vital duty with flight safety.

If it is to try to find out if a few dollars can be saved, well I for one think it is a narrow point of view and I guess more time in the simulator is needed.

The comments about the FE show a complete lack of understanding about his role, but sufficent to say, that I know of more than one pilots whose back side was saved by the FE. It also shows that some do not understand the crew team spirt, but a good team working together bring out the very best in CRM and flight safety.

Perhaps if the original poster had stated why he listed his inquirey we could provide a more meanenfull reply.

Regards

Col
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Old 28th Apr 2010, 09:25
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No L/M

Col aka Herkman, BBadanov is either looking for a bite or is a complete ******. F/E's, in the RAAF at least as you and I both know, not only are an integral part of the operating crew but they also keep the beast working as far as away base maintenance is concerned, often ably assisted by the L/M. Whilst the Flight Manual may state minimum crew to be 2 Pilots + F/E, those of us who know a bit about the C130, pre-J, know it is a team aeroplane with five crew. Sadly, in my opinion at least, the C130J has at least one too few crew. That said, the L/M's survive whilst us mostly now old and grey F/E's can savour the memories and those such as BBadanov like views can go jump! PS. Thanks 411A for the vote of confidence in the professional F/E's.
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 12:58
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FEs and Load Masters

Let's be frank guys. FEs and LMs are both unnecessary and long past their expiration dates. In the Air Force, LMs do about 4 minutes of actual work, then ride--not fly, ride---on a mission and draw TDY pay.
The need for FEs and Navs died when computers were installed. These positions are relics from a bygone age....and they never did have any real use in the first place.
Sorry, but that's the hard truth.
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:18
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Sorry, but that's the hard truth.
The pilots will be replaced by SAC "Playstation kids" sitting in the USA while flying their UAV's over Afghanistan soon too...
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 16:49
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In a commercial environment, a good Loadmaster is worth his weight in Gold.
And I,, was a GOOD Loadmaster
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 17:26
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LMs

Well said Course Profile ...

Stutters : you have absolutely no idea what your talking about. Have you ever been down the back of a chinook in Helmand .. do you have any idea what the 2 LMs do ??

Without the pilots, the aircraft wouldn't take off, without the LMs, it would be pointless taking off as nothing would happen down the back.
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Old 3rd Aug 2010, 18:26
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Luckily, stutters is only a filing clerk at the Pentagon.

Try to ignore him
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