The Mighty Hunter's Last Stand

[J.A.F.O.]

If we, as a nation, need to assess the possible damage to engines from the volcanic ash why don't we fly all the remaining Nimrods and then it doesn't make a great deal of difference if there is damage as they were being scrapped anyway.

Are the politicians too tied up in saving their own jobs to think about this?

[neildo]

What the worst case scenario effect on an aircraft from the ash could? I'd say complete engine failure resulting in a downed aircraft, and a sacrificed crew

[14greens]

you gonna write the letters to the crew who would end up in a the smoking wreck, they dont fly too well with no engine!!! arse

[getsometimein]

Sounds a great idea, convert MR2's into UAV's!

[EdSett100]

JAFO, everyone knows that dense ash clouds cause immediate engine failures and that at the extremity of the ash clouds, there is little or no immmediate damage and that just outside the extremity, there is no damage at all. Where would you like me to fly the Nimrod, so that my report can be of any use to NATS? Oh, and by the way, the lat and long of the line of safety is moving with the wind. The core issue is not about defining what ash can do to aircraft (we already know), but rather it is how can NATS give an IFR route clearance that is hazard free? The nub of the problem is that NATS takes legal responsibility for their clearances. Unless they know, from one minute to the next, where the line of safety is, they cannot possibly give IFR clearances that do not require the crew to see and avoid. Its a legal issue, nothing more and, IMHO, BA are onto the case.

BA is currently flying a 747 over GB with their boss on board; probably trying to establish a company policy; ie if the aircraft has remained clear of any haze or cloud, has flown in daylight and landed without any damage, it must be safe to fly (VFR) in those conditions.

Deliberately flying a Nimrod or any aircraft into haze, or worse, above N Europe at the moment is stupidity. Other than the risk to safety, it will not provide any help to resolve the problem.

Regards
Ed

[getsometimein]

Deliberately flying a Nimrod or any aircraft into haze, or worse

I've seen a few pilots do that just cause they thought it was a good idea...

[J.A.F.O.]

I'm not suggesting flying into the main cloud of volcanic ash, because we know what will happen; I am suggesting flying in the areas where test flights are already being carried out in order to assess possible longer term damage. If there is a possibility of longer term damage then it makes perfect sense to use engines and aircraft which have no future anyway.

Ed, I'm afraid we don't know the longer term effects of flying in the areas where the microfine particles are suspended in the atmosphere and that is the data that would be useful.

neildo and 14greens - I hope that I have now explained myself more fully and that you can see my intention was never to place any persons in immediate jeopardy but to allow assessment of the effects that the particles had on the engines in the longer term. Sorry if I didn't make that clear initially, I probably am an arse but not for the reasons you suspected.

[Ivan Rogov]

If test flights are already being done then there is no requirement, especially if the aircraft doesn't have any test equipment or represent a modern airliners systems or engines.

Also I'm guessing all the Spey engines will be the most valuable parts of the Nimrods for disposal, or to be reused on other platforms and are not merely scrap.

[J.A.F.O.]

Ivan

The test flights are being done from a commercial standpoint and not to help gather information which may be valuable both in safe operation now and in the future. The current flights are designed to prove that is is safe to operate in various conditions and not to gather meaningful data for any future operations should such a restriction be placed again.

I think the value of the Spey engines is miniscule compared to the amount of money lost every day.

It was just an idle thought, anyway. A desire to see the Rod have one last fling, one last (and this time more visible) chance to save the nation.

I resent 14greens and neildo implying that I might want to jeopardise crews, I've had enough friends not come back to not want to do that.

[Duncan D'Sorderlee]

I suspect that you could through a bucketfull of volcanic ash down the throat of a Spey and it would simply cough and crack on regardless!

Duncs