RAF Chipmunks
Longer Ron,
Now you mention it, ISTR an aircraft that had a glider towing hook in my time too. Could the T come from Tug ? And was it doing a bit of launching RAFGSA stuff from Bicester or some such. No disrespect meant, but from your photograph it's fairly obvious where the "Longer" Ron tag comes from, I struggled to reach the bottom blade to pull the prop through six blades on priming for start. Spinner was never an option. Thanks for that prod on the tug aircraft, it's amazing what one forgets in 36 years.
Best
Smudge
Now you mention it, ISTR an aircraft that had a glider towing hook in my time too. Could the T come from Tug ? And was it doing a bit of launching RAFGSA stuff from Bicester or some such. No disrespect meant, but from your photograph it's fairly obvious where the "Longer" Ron tag comes from, I struggled to reach the bottom blade to pull the prop through six blades on priming for start. Spinner was never an option. Thanks for that prod on the tug aircraft, it's amazing what one forgets in 36 years.
Best
Smudge
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Smudge ...
I think WP805 (D) might have been the Tug in your era ... See previous pic
Longer Ron ...
You are correct WZ877 (G) was also a Tug ... See Dora's pic. I'm unable to account for the discrepancy between T and G on this airframe. Also note that on the French Civil Register the Tug Hook appears to have been removed
Best ...
Coff.
I think WP805 (D) might have been the Tug in your era ... See previous pic
Longer Ron ...
You are correct WZ877 (G) was also a Tug ... See Dora's pic. I'm unable to account for the discrepancy between T and G on this airframe. Also note that on the French Civil Register the Tug Hook appears to have been removed
Best ...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 6th Oct 2015 at 19:05.
586, last flown by me on April 2nd 1965 from Bicester, aerotowing !
Nice picture, too, of 877, see it still had a hook ! It was one of the fleet at South Cerney for the World Gliding Championships where we operated with carb. air in cold. Needed to with some of the heavy Russian metal sailplanes. Last flew 877 on May 19th at SC during WGC work up.
Nice picture, too, of 877, see it still had a hook ! It was one of the fleet at South Cerney for the World Gliding Championships where we operated with carb. air in cold. Needed to with some of the heavy Russian metal sailplanes. Last flew 877 on May 19th at SC during WGC work up.
Last edited by RetiredBA/BY; 7th Oct 2015 at 09:14.
Looks like a good few were pressed in to glider towing services Coff, were they simply used for RAFGSA/Air Cadet towing, or were there other uses. Now anyone know about the lower spar tie bar modification ? Not sure why I bring this up at this point, but from the depths of my memory I have a story from way back when which might raise a chuckle.
Coff, do you have access to dates modifications were introduced on the Chipmunk ? Major ones I mean.
Smudge
Coff, do you have access to dates modifications were introduced on the Chipmunk ? Major ones I mean.
Smudge
Yes it is amazing what I remember from 1980ish - shame I never remember anything important 
One of our chippies (I think it was 877) was borrowed by Boscombe Down,but cannot remember why - could have been for glider towing i spose
Smuj - I am not overlytall - like a certain cartoon cat I am undertall for my weight
One of our chippies (I think it was 877) was borrowed by Boscombe Down,but cannot remember why - could have been for glider towing i spose
Smuj - I am not overlytall - like a certain cartoon cat I am undertall for my weight
The glider hooks were probably installed way before my time on chippies and were probably used for some RAFGSA tug work,some chippies were also used for Air Cadet glider towing occasionally and some were used for at least one World Gliding Championship (1965 South Cerney)
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Smudge ...
I recall the Wing Spar mod. I'll have a dig for you. Had you other specific mod's in mind ? Again I'll see what I have.
Longer Ron ...
The Tow Hook was installed during production and not a retro fit for the RAF fleet.
I'll come back as soon as I can ... I'm having an off-line conversation as a result of this thread in respect of an airframe already mentioned ... I'll post that first if I may ... Probably tomorrow now.
Cheers ...
Coff.
I recall the Wing Spar mod. I'll have a dig for you. Had you other specific mod's in mind ? Again I'll see what I have.
Longer Ron ...
The Tow Hook was installed during production and not a retro fit for the RAF fleet.
I'll come back as soon as I can ... I'm having an off-line conversation as a result of this thread in respect of an airframe already mentioned ... I'll post that first if I may ... Probably tomorrow now.
Cheers ...
Coff.
Coff,
Thanks for the foregoing. As an aid to taking the pressure off I will "spill the beans" from my point of view, it may amuse our fellow posters as we await your deliberations. Beware there's a challenge in this for you, so you don't get off lightly
A Chippy Tale
In late August 1979 I was finally recognised for my fantastic ability as an Airframe fitter and promoted to Sergeant. This meant a move from OUAS/ULAS/6 AEF (University Engineering Flight) and a posting to Field Repair Squadron (FRS) part of the former 71 MU based now at Abingdon as two squadrons, Crash and Smash (who attended all fixed wing aircraft crashes in UK) and FRS, who carried out Category 3 repairs to all military fixed wing aircraft in the UK, as a "gang boss". I believe that my experience on the venerable Chipmunk led to my being given repairs on a Spitfire, Devons galore and eventually I ran a team of 50 plus tradesman in a six month rebuild of the wings of PA474. The subject repair was quite a small job that might make it interesting to Chipmunk devotees.
Circa 1980, I was detailed to take a 2 + 1 (Two lads and me) to Woodvale where someone had taxied an aircraft over a "bad ground marker" on the airfield, causing some severe damage to the underside of the fuselage. I'm sure some years later I saw an accident report or incident report in Air Clues. Anyway, we duly arrived to find no accommodation on camp, so our Jnr Tech, one Alfie Bass, a scouser, got us a room at his aunties house, we were on Rate ones, and with Alfie working from home we were well chuffed with the arrangements.
Arriving at the hangar at Woodvale we found the aircraft prepared for the repair with wings removed and placed in rigging position on trestles. With the damaged area at around 4 feet off the ground it was a very awkward position to work on the underbelly. I contacted base and our surveyor agreed that there was no reason that the fuselage could not be laid on its side on the trestles as the fuselage frames would be done in sequence, ensuring that no change to the structure would occur. A full symmetry check would be carried out on completion. The Shorts Ltd manager was not best pleased, and threatened me with the wrath of Kahn, but eventually had to concede that until I handed it back, it was an Abingdon aircraft.
Anyway, all above is background, and I apologise for the lengthy diatribe, it serves to set the scene for a strange discovery. At some point during the repair we dropped a steel nut inside the fuselage and, like all "top notch" gang bosses, I dug out the magnet on the locking wire to retrieve it, we fumbled about and eventually, retrieved the errant nut. Somehow during the search the magnet came into contact with the lower spar tie bar, and was not attracted. As an old (ish) Chippie man I felt that something was amiss. Doing some research through the Aircraft publication I found two things of interest. There was a Modification, introduced some years previously replacing the Aluminium lower spar tie bar with a Steel one, and this mod had been signed as having been embodied on this aircraft. Apparently the mod was the result of some failures of the tie bar under the stress of aerobatics. Anyway, Mr Kevin, the Shorts manager was pleased that it had been discovered, and we were all happy as our repair was extended to accommodate incorporating the modification. To this day I do not know what made me offer that magnet to the tie bar, but I'm glad I did. I wonder if any others escaped the mod but were signed up ?
Here's a challenge Coff, can you find which aircraft had that taxiing accident at Woodvale circa 1980 ?
Once again, I apologise for this long post, I just can't explain it in fewer words !!!
Smudge
Thanks for the foregoing. As an aid to taking the pressure off I will "spill the beans" from my point of view, it may amuse our fellow posters as we await your deliberations. Beware there's a challenge in this for you, so you don't get off lightly
A Chippy Tale
In late August 1979 I was finally recognised for my fantastic ability as an Airframe fitter and promoted to Sergeant. This meant a move from OUAS/ULAS/6 AEF (University Engineering Flight) and a posting to Field Repair Squadron (FRS) part of the former 71 MU based now at Abingdon as two squadrons, Crash and Smash (who attended all fixed wing aircraft crashes in UK) and FRS, who carried out Category 3 repairs to all military fixed wing aircraft in the UK, as a "gang boss". I believe that my experience on the venerable Chipmunk led to my being given repairs on a Spitfire, Devons galore and eventually I ran a team of 50 plus tradesman in a six month rebuild of the wings of PA474. The subject repair was quite a small job that might make it interesting to Chipmunk devotees.
Circa 1980, I was detailed to take a 2 + 1 (Two lads and me) to Woodvale where someone had taxied an aircraft over a "bad ground marker" on the airfield, causing some severe damage to the underside of the fuselage. I'm sure some years later I saw an accident report or incident report in Air Clues. Anyway, we duly arrived to find no accommodation on camp, so our Jnr Tech, one Alfie Bass, a scouser, got us a room at his aunties house, we were on Rate ones, and with Alfie working from home we were well chuffed with the arrangements.
Arriving at the hangar at Woodvale we found the aircraft prepared for the repair with wings removed and placed in rigging position on trestles. With the damaged area at around 4 feet off the ground it was a very awkward position to work on the underbelly. I contacted base and our surveyor agreed that there was no reason that the fuselage could not be laid on its side on the trestles as the fuselage frames would be done in sequence, ensuring that no change to the structure would occur. A full symmetry check would be carried out on completion. The Shorts Ltd manager was not best pleased, and threatened me with the wrath of Kahn, but eventually had to concede that until I handed it back, it was an Abingdon aircraft.
Anyway, all above is background, and I apologise for the lengthy diatribe, it serves to set the scene for a strange discovery. At some point during the repair we dropped a steel nut inside the fuselage and, like all "top notch" gang bosses, I dug out the magnet on the locking wire to retrieve it, we fumbled about and eventually, retrieved the errant nut. Somehow during the search the magnet came into contact with the lower spar tie bar, and was not attracted. As an old (ish) Chippie man I felt that something was amiss. Doing some research through the Aircraft publication I found two things of interest. There was a Modification, introduced some years previously replacing the Aluminium lower spar tie bar with a Steel one, and this mod had been signed as having been embodied on this aircraft. Apparently the mod was the result of some failures of the tie bar under the stress of aerobatics. Anyway, Mr Kevin, the Shorts manager was pleased that it had been discovered, and we were all happy as our repair was extended to accommodate incorporating the modification. To this day I do not know what made me offer that magnet to the tie bar, but I'm glad I did. I wonder if any others escaped the mod but were signed up ?
Here's a challenge Coff, can you find which aircraft had that taxiing accident at Woodvale circa 1980 ?
Once again, I apologise for this long post, I just can't explain it in fewer words !!!
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RAF Chipmunks
Coffman,
Just to get the record straight I am the current owner of WP801 and the registration that you have quoted is long gone as I re-registered the machine as N801WP several years ago.
It is alive and well in darkest Montana.
Speedbird48.
Just to get the record straight I am the current owner of WP801 and the registration that you have quoted is long gone as I re-registered the machine as N801WP several years ago.
It is alive and well in darkest Montana.
Speedbird48.
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Coff: The full list of Chipmunk modifications, including dates of approval, can be found on the DHSL website here:
http://www.dhsupport.com/archives/Ch...ifications.pdf
Also, the glider towing mods were not installed during production. Modification H.197 introduced glider towing, and that was not approved until 4 December 1953, some time after production had ended.
For information, the fatigue improvement modifications are:
H.288 - centre fuselage steel lower tie bar.
H.289 - mainplane lower spar boom steel inserts.
http://www.dhsupport.com/archives/Ch...ifications.pdf
Also, the glider towing mods were not installed during production. Modification H.197 introduced glider towing, and that was not approved until 4 December 1953, some time after production had ended.
For information, the fatigue improvement modifications are:
H.288 - centre fuselage steel lower tie bar.
H.289 - mainplane lower spar boom steel inserts.
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Speedbird48 ...
Many thanks for the update
I've amended my original post #442 to reflect the US Civil Registration of N801WP. You certainly have a fine looking aircraft there in Montana.
Hopefully Aeromys' elderly Mother will be pleased to hear that WP801 is still flying after all this time since she last flew it in the early 50's.
Thanks also for sending recent pictures and your permission to share with the PPRuNe Mil Chipmunk Appreciation Society
Image Credit : By the kind permission of the owner of N801WP
WP801 History update ...
The pre-naval career of WP801 was with Home Command White Waltham/15 RFS Redhill. She was usually tasked with various ATC summer camps and then put back into storage at Kemble, hence the low hours. WP801 then went to Plymouth in August 1966.
Best ...
Coff.
Many thanks for the update
I've amended my original post #442 to reflect the US Civil Registration of N801WP. You certainly have a fine looking aircraft there in Montana.
Hopefully Aeromys' elderly Mother will be pleased to hear that WP801 is still flying after all this time since she last flew it in the early 50's.
Thanks also for sending recent pictures and your permission to share with the PPRuNe Mil Chipmunk Appreciation Society
Image Credit : By the kind permission of the owner of N801WP
WP801 History update ...
The pre-naval career of WP801 was with Home Command White Waltham/15 RFS Redhill. She was usually tasked with various ATC summer camps and then put back into storage at Kemble, hence the low hours. WP801 then went to Plymouth in August 1966.
Best ...
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 7th Oct 2015 at 07:41.
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Mandator ...
I have that PDF on my Mac ... Struggled a bit last night with just my iPad ... Many thanks for the help
Clearly I had a personal RAM failure last night regarding the Tow Hook mod ... Thanks again
I've got a few more Chipmunk requests to respond to ... Then I'll have a crack a Smudge's challenge (fiendish chap that he is)
Best ...
Coff.
I have that PDF on my Mac ... Struggled a bit last night with just my iPad ... Many thanks for the help
Clearly I had a personal RAM failure last night regarding the Tow Hook mod ... Thanks again
I've got a few more Chipmunk requests to respond to ... Then I'll have a crack a Smudge's challenge (fiendish chap that he is)
Best ...
Coff.
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Just for you Smudge and Longer Ron ...
Looks like the owner of WZ877 is a Member of PPRuNe !
see here ...
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...-chipmunk.html
And some recent airborne footage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzEAveuMzNM
For good measure ... for those interested ... the PPRuNe 'Nostalgia' Forum has some interesting stuff too ...
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...beautiful.html
Coff.
Looks like the owner of WZ877 is a Member of PPRuNe !
see here ...
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...-chipmunk.html
And some recent airborne footage ...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fzEAveuMzNM
For good measure ... for those interested ... the PPRuNe 'Nostalgia' Forum has some interesting stuff too ...
http://www.pprune.org/aviation-histo...beautiful.html
Coff.
Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 7th Oct 2015 at 19:23.
Chipmunk for sale ?
Does anyone know of a first class Chipmunk for sale in UK ?
John Romain of ARC found one for me in May but it was snapped up whilst I was in the US (flying a Texan, Waco and Cub).
Need one with good remaining life on all major components and all mods. incorporated , preferably in silver paint.
John Romain of ARC found one for me in May but it was snapped up whilst I was in the US (flying a Texan, Waco and Cub).
Need one with good remaining life on all major components and all mods. incorporated , preferably in silver paint.
Just a numbered other
My association with the wonderful chippie goes.back to 6AEF at White Waltham in 1966 as an ATC cadet.
I must search out my 3822 (lovely to see later generations refer to it as a 'Desmond') and retrieve some detail.
Next RN grading at Roborough. Then owned a bit of WP 809 for many years, also towing gliders with Lycoming chippies.
Regarding the British use of the greenhouse canopy over the Canadian bubble, I was told by one of the hoary old Roborough instructors that it was to aid escape or rescue in the event of nosing over and coming to rest inverted, a very different problem if trapped in a bubble.
Delightful thread Coff. I'll try and find some pictures too.
I must search out my 3822 (lovely to see later generations refer to it as a 'Desmond') and retrieve some detail.
Next RN grading at Roborough. Then owned a bit of WP 809 for many years, also towing gliders with Lycoming chippies.
Regarding the British use of the greenhouse canopy over the Canadian bubble, I was told by one of the hoary old Roborough instructors that it was to aid escape or rescue in the event of nosing over and coming to rest inverted, a very different problem if trapped in a bubble.
Delightful thread Coff. I'll try and find some pictures too.
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Arkroyal ...
Welcome aboard
Glad you like our happy thread on this wonderful little aeroplane. If you have some pictures that would be great. If you need help posting images drop me a PM as I'd be only too pleased to help.
RetiredBA/BY ...
Welcome also
I'm afraid I can't help you ... best bet would be to stick with John Romain I guess. Do let us know if you are successful
Best ...
Coff.
Welcome aboard
Glad you like our happy thread on this wonderful little aeroplane. If you have some pictures that would be great. If you need help posting images drop me a PM as I'd be only too pleased to help.
RetiredBA/BY ...
Welcome also
I'm afraid I can't help you ... best bet would be to stick with John Romain I guess. Do let us know if you are successful
Best ...
Coff.
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Smudge ...
Regarding your 'Challenge' ... I'm afraid you have beaten me on the ID of the Woodvale taxiing accident circa the 80's
The closest I could get was the incident with WB697 in 94 when the airframe was airlifted (suspended under) by a Puma back to Woodvale ... see following URL.
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety WikiBase > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
I'm assuming you know the Serial Number in question ... and await your announcement
You'll also see I've added four more airframes to the 6 AEF Fleet List ... these were the final aircraft to serve at the close of Chipmunk Ops at Benson in 95.
Mandator has kindly posted the mod list you asked for ... which covers the Wing Spar mod.
Finally, the Tow Hook mod was, I believe, for Inter-Service & National Gliding ops ... I don't believe (I may be wrong) Air Cadets undertook aerotow ops.
Best ...
Coff.
Regarding your 'Challenge' ... I'm afraid you have beaten me on the ID of the Woodvale taxiing accident circa the 80's
The closest I could get was the incident with WB697 in 94 when the airframe was airlifted (suspended under) by a Puma back to Woodvale ... see following URL.
Aviation Safety Network > ASN Aviation Safety WikiBase > ASN Aviation Safety Database results
I'm assuming you know the Serial Number in question ... and await your announcement
You'll also see I've added four more airframes to the 6 AEF Fleet List ... these were the final aircraft to serve at the close of Chipmunk Ops at Benson in 95.
Mandator has kindly posted the mod list you asked for ... which covers the Wing Spar mod.
Finally, the Tow Hook mod was, I believe, for Inter-Service & National Gliding ops ... I don't believe (I may be wrong) Air Cadets undertook aerotow ops.
Best ...
Coff.
My day today
As promised, our good friend chickenlover contacted me recently and we agreed that today was going to be my first flight for 16 years, and my first flight in a Chipmunk for 36 years. To that end I duly reported for duty, as you will see, I can still get in to my old growbag, and off we went. The following photographs are a combination of mine and chickenlovers, who has given me his permission to "borrow" them for this post. Having pushed the aircraft from the hangar I was required to put my teckie hat on and give the engine a top up of oil, as predicted, a preflight by our pilot and she's ready to go;
WK577 prior to start. She's a looker !
So, in we get and off we go;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0sdvqalc5...20off.mov?dl=0
A short climb and a look at our old stamping ground, a much changed place since the Green brigade took charge, here's a view of the old parking bays, something looks wrong without an Albert on there.
A couple of photo's from up front, and even an ugly old devil like me can't keep the smile off my face;
We then did some local flying and I had to say, it seems that losing the ability to locate things on the ground has gone with my good looks
. The highlight was a visit to my home overhead, where SWMBO was awaiting our arrival, with a promise to get some photographs. She actually tried to use her iPad, which took three pictures of her (camera reversed) followed by what looks like a dead fly on the lens, I will not insult thread followers with any of that.
The return to land was very pleasant with good views of the Cerney lakes and surrounding countryside, you seriously could not get that smile off my face, despite the warning of needing a gum shield the landing was a "greaser" a very gentle arrival.
The growbag still fits, basically ;
I can only express my public thanks to chickenlover for his very generous time and effort to reinforce my almost forgotten love of great aircraft, and flying in them. I doubt I will stop smiling for some time, I will not forget that flight the aircraft or the banter for much longer. WK577 is now my favourite Chipmunk, if you hadn't already guessed.
Smudge
WK577 prior to start. She's a looker !
So, in we get and off we go;
https://www.dropbox.com/s/m0sdvqalc5...20off.mov?dl=0
A short climb and a look at our old stamping ground, a much changed place since the Green brigade took charge, here's a view of the old parking bays, something looks wrong without an Albert on there.
A couple of photo's from up front, and even an ugly old devil like me can't keep the smile off my face;
We then did some local flying and I had to say, it seems that losing the ability to locate things on the ground has gone with my good looks
. The highlight was a visit to my home overhead, where SWMBO was awaiting our arrival, with a promise to get some photographs. She actually tried to use her iPad, which took three pictures of her (camera reversed) followed by what looks like a dead fly on the lens, I will not insult thread followers with any of that.The return to land was very pleasant with good views of the Cerney lakes and surrounding countryside, you seriously could not get that smile off my face, despite the warning of needing a gum shield the landing was a "greaser" a very gentle arrival.
The growbag still fits, basically ;
I can only express my public thanks to chickenlover for his very generous time and effort to reinforce my almost forgotten love of great aircraft, and flying in them. I doubt I will stop smiling for some time, I will not forget that flight the aircraft or the banter for much longer. WK577 is now my favourite Chipmunk, if you hadn't already guessed.
Smudge
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Coff,
Yes they did. There was a Chipmunk based at ACCGS at RAF Syerston that used to Aerotow gliders on Instructor training sorties.
On one such trip at Syerston in a T21 the rope unexpectedly broke at 300 ft over the River Trent whilst I was doing one of my Instructor courses there. Makes you duck a bit smartish when 150 ft of rope come screaming back at you. Cause was rot due to getting continually wet and not being dried adequately. This would about 1975 to 1979 time.
ACW
Yes they did. There was a Chipmunk based at ACCGS at RAF Syerston that used to Aerotow gliders on Instructor training sorties.
On one such trip at Syerston in a T21 the rope unexpectedly broke at 300 ft over the River Trent whilst I was doing one of my Instructor courses there. Makes you duck a bit smartish when 150 ft of rope come screaming back at you. Cause was rot due to getting continually wet and not being dried adequately. This would about 1975 to 1979 time.
ACW