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RAF Chipmunks

Old 21st Jun 2013, 11:52
  #201 (permalink)  
 
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Wander00:

Thank you for the info on your time in 'OO. How appropriate.. Will aim to PM you over the weekend.

Regards

O
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Old 21st Jun 2013, 17:18
  #202 (permalink)  
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Welcome bevanid ... You are very lucky to own a Chipmunk ... Well done for keeping one of the old girls flying



WP861 seen here at Abingdon.


I'll see what information I have ... But your best bet might be to see if the RAF Museum could help you with info from this aircrafts Movement Card ...

I take it you know that the Duke of Edinburgh (as MRAF) did his basic flying training on, then, a brand new Chipmunk WP861 at White Waltham but he did his 1st solo in WP912 20/12/1952 ...

RAF Museum Research

Could you post some current pics please ?

Best ...

Coff.

Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 12th Jan 2014 at 09:17.
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Old 21st Jun 2013, 20:42
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bevanid - PM sent....
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Old 21st Jun 2013, 20:55
  #204 (permalink)  
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Good to see you again D9

Coff.
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Old 7th Jul 2013, 09:44
  #205 (permalink)  
 
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Coff,

Thanks for that like I will enquire to see what I can find,

Yes, from what I have heard the Duke of Edinburgh did aprox 20hrs in WP861

Would be interesting to write to home to see if I can get any information from him about his experiences?

Can't work out how to upload pictures, must be simple but by young brain can't work it out..

Bevan
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Old 7th Jul 2013, 11:45
  #206 (permalink)  
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Bevan ...

Good luck writing to the DoE !

You need to host your pics first (PhotoBucket.com is as good as any and free). Once uploaded then use the PPRuNe Photo Insert Tool to link the Direct Pic URL from your host ... Simples. Keep the pic width to about 700 pix to keep our friendly MODs happy

Coff.
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Old 7th Jul 2013, 12:55
  #207 (permalink)  
 
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If you use photobucket,all you need to do is double click on the image code...then once it is 'blue' - just right click on the 'blue' and copy/paste directly to the reply on here - it should be auto sized !

I have never had a problem with size
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Old 4th Jan 2014, 20:36
  #208 (permalink)  
 
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Some success Finally,


I have jumped through many, many hoops and was lucky enough to get from the royal household copies of Prince Philips logbook from when he flew my chipmunk WP861 and also the RAF museum WP912,


Unfortunately I cant share them on this forum as I am under strict instruction no to post them in any public places ad understandably they are his private property.


I am writing to the duke so never know what may come from it!,
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Old 5th Jan 2014, 07:33
  #209 (permalink)  
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Great news Bevanid !

You are a very lucky man to own WP861 with such Royal provenance. Completely understand that you can't share the logbook entries ... but a few current pics of WP861 would be great

Best regards ...

Coff.
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Old 5th Jan 2014, 08:46
  #210 (permalink)  
 
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my attempt to upload a photo or 2 of WP861
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Old 11th Jan 2014, 16:07
  #211 (permalink)  
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Thanks Flying Lawyer for helping Bevanid with his pics ... some other cracking shots too

Bevanid ... just helping out









Bevanid ... Many thanks for taking the trouble to post these fine images

Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 12th Jan 2014 at 09:14.
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Old 12th Jan 2014, 07:06
  #212 (permalink)  
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I have PM'd Coff to make the pics 850x850 the 'PPRuNe size' - to avoid page spread.

If you other gentlemen would please do the same it would be appreciated by those who have different page size settings.

PPP
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Old 12th Jan 2014, 09:23
  #213 (permalink)  
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PPRuNe Pop ...

All done

Bevanid ...

I've just re-hosted your images on my PhotoBucket account and rescaled them to 750x499 to remain compliant with PPRuNe SOP.
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Old 12th Jan 2014, 11:34
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Just for info -


The Rotorheads forum allows pics up to 1024 width.


H.
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Old 12th Jan 2014, 14:31
  #215 (permalink)  
 
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PPrune Pop

One for you to take away is if you post from an iphone or ipad then you cannot resize....

The B Word
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 12:57
  #216 (permalink)  
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UK Mil Chipmunk Comms Discussion transferred from here to prevent Thread Drift ...

http://www.pprune.org/military-aviat...gnition-2.html

Originally Posted by CoffmanStarter
Hi Dora-9 ... good to hear from you again

I'm pretty certain that no RAF Chipmunks were fitted with both Vhf and Uhf radios (they were either Vhf or Uhf equipped) ... with respect to Mil Vhf aerial installation, this was under the starboard wing. See the yellow quarter wave inverted ground plane rod here on WK518. I've seen some Civilian (ex Mill) Chipmunks with Vhf aerials located as you describe, but such installations are non-mil-standard. In fact ... WK518 was one of the first RAF Chipmunks to be fitted with a Bendix 360/380 Channel Vhf radio which replaced the older 'Steam Driven' 10 Channel XTL controlled 1988 sets.



Image Credit : RAF BBMF

I'm also certain that the Chivenor Chipmunk pic wasn't a 1 AEF aircraft as they were exclusively Vhf equipped from Biggin Hill, White Waltham, West Malling days through to their close at Manston in the mid 90's. As an aside WK518 was on the 1 AEF fleet between 1973 and 1983.

I'll post a few of the other pics I mentioned over the weekend

Hi Huntaluvva ...

I think you may have something there ... many thanks

Best ...

Coff.
Originally Posted by ACW418
I thought the Chipmunks were fitted with PTR175's in the end i.e. VHF and UHF. Don't know anything about their aerials though. Mod H337 in April 1980 although this was for PTR 1751 which may not have been VHF/UHF.

ACW.
Originally Posted by Dora-9
Quote:
Originally Posted by CoffmanStarter
I'm pretty certain that no RAF Chipmunks were fitted with both Vhf and Uhf radios (they were either Vhf or Uhf equipped) ... with respect to Mil Vhf aerial installation, this was under the starboard wing.
Unthinkable I know, but I suspect that I was (generally) wrong and that therefore you were correct about this. I've just trawled through my RAF Chipmunk photos, normally a lovely thing to do but this time rather marred by that sinking feeling that I'd erred - big time! It seems that, with very very few exceptions (I only found three), RAF Chipmunks had either a UHF radio (the two fuselage "blade" antennae) or a VHF radio ("whip" antenna under the RH wing).

The first exception to the rule seems to have been Birmingham UAS' WG307 which carried both aerial styles as noted above, which is not to say that both radios were actually fitted. Further to my earlier comment about the layout of WG98?'s Day-Glo fuselage stripes, note the two variations apparent here (the cowling stripes on WP790 have rounded leading edges too):



Also, I had it firmly fixed in my brain that the VHF antenna was always the swept white "rod" style fitted to the upper tail cone. I'm not sure where this notion came from. Again looking at the evidence provided only two examples, if nothing else validating my favorite adage that "assumption is the mother of all cock-ups".

WG480, possibly with 4 AEF, which would date this in the late 1980's (note both UHF and VHF antennae carried here):



WD310, I don't know when & where, but since this one was noted at EFTS wearing a "hydbrid" scheme (a combination of the first and second R/W/LG schemes) in August 1987 it's apparently after that (only a VHF radio here?):



Cheers,
D9
Originally Posted by Dora-9
H.337 dated 18.4.1980 is entitled: Radio: "To Introduce Plessey PTR 1751 ARI 23301/26 UHF in Lieu of PTR 170 ARI 18197/1 UHF", so I don't think this covers fitting a VHF radio.

I have a complete modification list (available to download on the DHSL website), and I can't find anything about fitting a VHF to RAF Chipmunks after 1965 (but it obviously happened; look at the above photos)!

Any ideas, Coff?
Originally Posted by Kenparry
WRT Chipmunk radios:

I never saw a Chipmunk with a PTR175. I still have my Chipmunk Pilot's Notes, amended up to 1994, which lists in a diagram the following fits:

RAF: choice of PTR170 UHF; PTR1751PP (also UHF); or a Marconi AD120 720-channel VHF.
Army: PTR1751BB, either alone or "with standby UHF".

All the above had their control boxes mounted on top of the coaming, unlike the original 10-channel VHF which had the control mounted near the starter pull-ring.

Also, in the text, additional info:
1. RAF aircraft could have a 720-chan VHF plus the PTR1751; .
2. RN aircraft had a Bendix RT221 380-chan VHF plus either a PTR170 or the Marconi AD120 720-chan VHF;
3. The Army standby UHF set is not identified.


For RAF aircraft, a Dittel ATR720B 720-chan VHF is also mentioned, which used a whip aerial on the tailcone (see WG480 & WD310 in post #25 above). It's unclear from the Pilot's Notes whether it could be fitted in conjunction with a PTR1751, though the photo of WG480 perhaps shows it could.

What a lot of options for a simple aircraft!
Originally Posted by Dora-9
Kenparry:

Quote:
It's unclear from the Pilot's Notes whether it could be fitted in conjunction with a PTR1751, though the photo of WG480 perhaps shows it could.
Well, both sets of antennae at least! I'll chase up my contacts at DHSL and see if they know more, although this will take time...
Summary follows on UK Mil Chipmunk Comms History
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 13:02
  #217 (permalink)  
 
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Last autumn I briefly met a Belgian, Alex, living in France and restoring an ex- RAF Chipmunk at La Rochelle airport. I am trying to make contact through the 75% Mosquito replica group at Fontenay le Comte. When I get a serial and more info I will post it here, unless (as is usual) someone beats me to it!
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 13:55
  #218 (permalink)  
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The primary source of information used to compile this summary comes from 'DH Support' in the form of the following 'Index of Modifications'. However, this document doesn't appear to be under any formal Document Management Control and shows some inconsistencies.

http://www.dhsupport.com/archives/Ch...ifications.pdf

The references provided from the RAF Pilots Notes (Amended to 1994) along with other information sources have been used in an attempt to catalogue the historic changes as they relate to the coms fit of the UK Mil Chipmunk. UK Civilian Chipmunk MOD history has been ignored.

OK chaps ... preamble out the way

Firstly, I will confirm that at no time was the combined V/Uhf PTR175 comms equipment ever fitted to the UK Mil Chipmunk.

The original 'production' coms specification was for a very basic (solitary) Vhf radio. This was in the form of either the TR1520 or TR1920 (10 Channel XTL controlled). These sets were designed and built very much based on post WWII (1947) technology. They were unreliable and were soon replaced. There is some evidence to suggest that a 'version' of the TR1520 (with only 4 Channel XTL controlled) was also installed. However, on the 170th and subsequent aircraft the slightly more reliable TR1934 (ARI15491) and TR1936 (ARI5489) radios were specified/installed.



TR1934



TR1936

The TR1936 was a 10 Channel (50 Khz Spacing) XTL controlled radio covering 115 Mhz to 145 Mhz producing about 8 Watts AM output.

The Vhf radio installation was then progressively upgraded over time with the TR198x series of equipment namely TR1985/6/7/8/9. These were far superior radios although physically similar to the early radios in terms of external appearance. Again 10 Channel (50 Khz Spacing) XTL controlled covering 100 Mhz to 156 Mhz (later Mks) producing about 10 Watts AM output.



TR1986 (Front Cover Removed)

More to follow ...

Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 24th May 2015 at 11:21.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 17:53
  #219 (permalink)  
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Continued ...

In 1965 a MOD was issued to introduce a solitary light weight Plessey PTR170 (ARI18197) Uhf radio in lieu of the existing 198x series Vhf radios. However this wasn't a UK fleet wide conversion and although the exact number of aircraft converted to Uhf remains unknown (including the split between RAF, RN and Army aircraft), a significant number of aircraft remained Vhf equipped retaining the 198x equipment. The 'Decision Criteria' for selecting airframes for conversion to Uhf remains unknown at this time.



Plessey PTR170 (AR118197)

With the installation of the PTR170 radios, associated Uhf Upper (Off Centre Port) and Lower (Off Centre Starboard) Blade aerials began to appear on the rear fuselage and the removal of the inverted ground plane Quarter Wave Rod aerial under the starboard wing. There is some evidence to suggest that a small number of airframes retained the obsolete Vhf aerial once converted to Uhf, then being removed at a later date, possibly due to a lack of available blanking plates.

The PTR170 control boxes were mounted on top of the front cockpit coaming.

In early 1976 a MOD was issued to introduce a Bendix RT221 Vhf 360/380 Channel radio. The DH Support IoM states that the existing TR1936 was to be retained (this is an unexplained anomaly in the MOD history). It's unknown how many Vhf equipped Chipmunks received the Bendix RT221 MOD, however WK518 is known to have benefited from this modification but again this was a solitary Vhf installation.



Bendix RT221

In late 1976 a MOD was issued to introduce a solitary Marconi AD120 (WR800) Vhf 720 Channel radio in lieu of the existing TR198x series equipment.



Marconi AD120 (WR800)

In mid 1978 a MOD was issued to introduce a D403 (ARI23159) Stand-By Uhf radio to the Army Air Corps fleet. This MOD was for Uhf equipped airframes, but not all.

In early 1980 a MOD was issued to replace the RAF PTR170 (ARI18197) Uhf radios with PTR1751/PP (ARI23301) Uhf radios. The Army Air Corps implemented a similar replacement in early 1984 using the PTR1751/BB (ARI23291).

In mid 1985 the RAF converted their PTR1751/PP's to 25 Khz with the Army Air Corps doing the same conversion to their PTR1751/BB's in mid 1988.

Interestingly, according to the DH Services IoM, the RN in mid 1987, introduced the Marconi AD120 (WR800) Vhf 720 Channel radio in lieu of the PTR170 Uhf and Stand-By Bendix RT221 Vhf radios (this is an unexplained anomaly in the MOD history).

In 1991 a Dittel ATR720B 720 Channel Vhf radio was installed in addition to a PTR1751 Uhf radio to all aircraft forming the then FSS (Flying Selection Squadron, renamed EFTS idc) fleet. This was some 15 airframes. The aerial installation was a Whip extending vertically from the tail cone to the rear of the rudder. The dual radio installation was a necessity given the intensity of flying training operations with the need to penetrate/operate above cloud/in IMC by EFTS.



Dittel ATR720B

The above summary now ties back to the Pilots Notes referenced by Kenparry ...

RAF: Choice of PTR170 Uhf; PTR1751PP (also Uhf); or a Marconi AD120 720 Channel Vhf.
Army: PTR1751BB, either alone or "with standby Uhf" D403 (ARI23159).

Also, in the text, additional info:
1. RAF aircraft could have a 720 Channel Vhf (likely to have been the Dittel ATR720B) plus the PTR1751; .
2. RN aircraft had a Bendix RT221 380-chan Vhf plus either a PTR170 Uhf or the Marconi AD120 720-chan Vhf;
3. The Army standby Uhf radio D403 (ARI23159).
I therefore stand corrected in saying "No RAF Chipmunks were fitted with both Vhf and Uhf radios (they were either Vhf or Uhf equipped)" ... the Dittel/Plessy 15 at EFTS being the exception

The RN also had a mix of comms kit

Last edited by CoffmanStarter; 23rd May 2015 at 13:11.
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Old 22nd Mar 2015, 18:58
  #220 (permalink)  
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Wander00 ... Here you go old chap

Chipmunk WZ877 (F-AZLI)

Looks like fun ... Abbeville May 2015

Chipmunk

Best ...

Coff
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