Tell me I was seeing things, Tell me the BBC did not show a Soldier dying
I would hope that nobody in our military would be so soft as to suggest that the media do not show the realities of war because the public need to know and our politicians need to learn not to enter into it lightly.
Incidentally, the footage was no less graphic than that shown late last year at the beginning of the BBC prog about the RIR trooper who lost his legs. That was truly awful.
The point being why are the British doing this on foot when specialist vehicles can be used? Surely we don't think we are still in Northern Ireland and are looking to disarm these devices in order to obtain the evidence necessary to arrest the bomb maker and take him to court? Or is it still as I suspect a lack of kit?
Someone has raised this very point on another thread and was warned that answering it would have security implications. Obviously if someone steps on an IED then there's little that can be done, but what is the rationale for guys attempting to disarm them at great risk to their lives, when they could be treated in the same way as "blinds" on grenade/mortar shoots and taken out with a bit of plastic explosive? No doubt someone will tell me I don't need to know the reason for this, but considering the number of these guys who are getting killed I hope the reason is a bloody good one.
WRT Thunderbird7's comments about the Sir Galahad footage - the difference in 1982 was that the footage was not shown until at least a week after the attack occurred - due to the need for the video tapes to be sent the 8000 miles back to the UK.
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The vehicle driven by the USMC contingent which detonated the first IED is manufactured by BAE Landsystems, given the close relationship that exists between BAE and the UK MOD why have a number not been purchased for deployment in Afghanistan? A vehicle manufactrued by a Bristish owned company, which by some accounts are doing a commendable job in reducing US casulaties from IED incidents, yet it doesn't seem like the UK armed forces are interested in procuring it. You guys seem to pump millions into BAE on projects that are late, over budget or not fit for purpose, yet here is a product that is needed and delivers as advertised and yet none procured.
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I agree with Soddim. Al Jazeera show fatalities, many British ex-BBC Journos work for Al Jazeera, where's the difference? If we're not careful we'll have a public even more detached from our conflicts than they already are and it's a lot easier to vote for sending our young men and women abroad if your conscience hasn't got to see the result of your decision. If you can't handle the consequences of military action then don't vote for it. Soon we'll have our returning troops being delivered in the dark hours to avoid adverse press coverage - as in the USA, at least we haven't started that yet. It is so important for this country to face up to the fact that if you are going to engage in a war then young people, mostly the underprivileged in society, will die; it's not pleasant but it is a fact. Why do we shy away from that? Any educated society should be responsible for its actions. Casualties, as unfortunate for the families as they are - I really mean that, because it must be truly, truly awful - by being shown on TV - may go some way to making voters and politicians less cavalier with our country's soldiers.
Just my opinion guys, an emotive subject and I'm sorry if anybody is offended by my views - I wouldn't post if I thought that might be the case.
Just my opinion guys, an emotive subject and I'm sorry if anybody is offended by my views - I wouldn't post if I thought that might be the case.
Last edited by Op_Twenty; 10th Feb 2010 at 18:35.
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Op_Twenty
All those who voted for military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, one step forward..march.....................sound of tumbleweed!
Gentleman Jim
If you can't handle the consequences of military action then don't vote for it.
All those who voted for military action in Afghanistan and Iraq, one step forward..march.....................sound of tumbleweed!
Gentleman Jim
I agree with those who say that there is nothing to see on this video, I'd be shocked and surprised if there were, for the convention is well known and observed on UK TV I think. To those who call for a "cinema verite" I would indeed commend it for those who do send our young men and women to war. Personally I baulk at the intro that even such edited pieces as this one attract that "I should warn you that there are scenes of violence and conflict in this clip", etc, so that sitting in the comfort and security of our suburban lounges we are not suddenly and unexpectedly disturbed. Having said that though, I don't think that there is a widespread misapprehension of what is the reality of this war. The sad and frequent processions through Wootten Bassett, the terribly maimed yet youthfully resilient patients at Headley Court are nightly shown on our tv's. If even more intense images were portrayed it would lead I think to a Vietnam style reaction where the graphic images night after night in US homes led to the political imperatives for withdrawal. Some might say good thing, but if the technology and freedom to broadcast uncensored had allowed it in WW2 would we have persevered? Would not the terrible suffering of the Merchant Seamen, the dreadful deaths of tens of thousands of bomber crews, the terrors of existence in the blitzed cities, etc all be seen as a reason to sue for peace and let the Nazis carry out their dreadful agenda unhindered by us? You need good reasons (very good ones!) to start wars and compelling ones to stop them before attaining your aims. "Shocked and outraged of Clapham" does not sufficiently cover either. Lastly and perhaps most importantly the NoK do matter and matter a lot. There is a tendency to patronise at the very least when they complain of lack of kit, poor leadership, or of simply being lied to. In this war at least they have been proved right time and again, but only in environments outside of the MOD/military complex. They need respect. Not showing their loved ones' final moments on nationwide TV should be a given in that respect.
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Reality et al....
Soddim,
Well said, - only one minor correction - HMG didn't send them to WAR in Ghaffanistan - Dr John Reid said at the time they were only going peacekeeping and that "not one shot would be fired in anger "
We all know whether that was true now don't we !
They don't just cheat on Expenses..............
Well said, - only one minor correction - HMG didn't send them to WAR in Ghaffanistan - Dr John Reid said at the time they were only going peacekeeping and that "not one shot would be fired in anger "
We all know whether that was true now don't we !
They don't just cheat on Expenses..............
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Tanker
OK. There's a lot of stuff on you tube showing the US blowing folk to pieces. It's widely available.
I admit it's no laughing matter, to me at least, but there will be plenty of our ex colonials a cheering and a whooping at seeing the baddies get their just desserts.
Like I said...........
OK. There's a lot of stuff on you tube showing the US blowing folk to pieces. It's widely available.
I admit it's no laughing matter, to me at least, but there will be plenty of our ex colonials a cheering and a whooping at seeing the baddies get their just desserts.
Like I said...........
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I don't like to watch Youtube videos of folks 'getting the chop' (Or killed, as I like to call it in my old fashioned way), and generally try to stay away from anything like that.
I certainly don't laugh at it either. Any involvement in 'nasty business', may have left me excited, euphoric or relieved, but that was more related to my own well being/survival, and not at some death related comedy moment.
Just my two penneth, as I did not want to be labelled in BB's 'we'.
I certainly don't laugh at it either. Any involvement in 'nasty business', may have left me excited, euphoric or relieved, but that was more related to my own well being/survival, and not at some death related comedy moment.
Just my two penneth, as I did not want to be labelled in BB's 'we'.
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Barnstormer et al.
Sorry. I should not have said 'We laugh' in my post above.
Mea Culpa. Sorry.
You're right. It's no laughing matter.
What I meant to draw attention to was the fact that there is a great deal of footage around of our so called enemy getting killed. And a distinct lack of outrage.
I wish we'd never started this war.
Sorry. I should not have said 'We laugh' in my post above.
Mea Culpa. Sorry.
You're right. It's no laughing matter.
What I meant to draw attention to was the fact that there is a great deal of footage around of our so called enemy getting killed. And a distinct lack of outrage.
I wish we'd never started this war.
