What will the AFPRB say this year?
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The AH SNCO deal is great for the lads.
I understand that the only reason it has not happened before now (and in time to stop some of the damage that is already done) is because it would be seen to be devisive. It is a crying shame however that it is only for SNCO's as the main drain on AH is the loss of officers. How many SNCO AH pilots have gone to the RAF as opposed to officers going the same way? I am guessing that officers are overborne covering for gaps in the SNCO ranks but surely any AH pilot saved is better than one lost, officer or SNCO! Ironically we will now have officers doing the same job on significantly less pay then SNCOs, what will the result be on officer retention? I would imagine the majority of SNCO's will not yet be at their IRP and so will not need retaining and given the measure is only to last 3 years then most wil miss out. Short term, minimal targetting therefore minimal effect. Officers will continue to leave therefore the AH seats will remain vacant, the quality of life will not improve and more will leave........
All IMHO,
HEDP
I understand that the only reason it has not happened before now (and in time to stop some of the damage that is already done) is because it would be seen to be devisive. It is a crying shame however that it is only for SNCO's as the main drain on AH is the loss of officers. How many SNCO AH pilots have gone to the RAF as opposed to officers going the same way? I am guessing that officers are overborne covering for gaps in the SNCO ranks but surely any AH pilot saved is better than one lost, officer or SNCO! Ironically we will now have officers doing the same job on significantly less pay then SNCOs, what will the result be on officer retention? I would imagine the majority of SNCO's will not yet be at their IRP and so will not need retaining and given the measure is only to last 3 years then most wil miss out. Short term, minimal targetting therefore minimal effect. Officers will continue to leave therefore the AH seats will remain vacant, the quality of life will not improve and more will leave........All IMHO,
HEDP
I don't own this space under my name. I should have leased it while I still could
Just a thought on how your pay might legitimately be squeezed.
The military pension is 'non-contributory' in theory, but in practice pay is reduced by a percentage to be comparable with private pension schemes. Historically this was 9% but reduced over a couple of years to 7%.
Logically, with the squeeze on private company pensions but with the promise of a guaranteed sum, the amount witheld could nw be increased. Maybe not by 3% this year but 1% or 1.5% which would flatten any real pay rise.
The military pension is 'non-contributory' in theory, but in practice pay is reduced by a percentage to be comparable with private pension schemes. Historically this was 9% but reduced over a couple of years to 7%.
Logically, with the squeeze on private company pensions but with the promise of a guaranteed sum, the amount witheld could nw be increased. Maybe not by 3% this year but 1% or 1.5% which would flatten any real pay rise.
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Biggus- I wasn't implying conspiracy -but the more noise you make about it might change my mind
We don't (and didn't) care what anyone above us was paid but feel really strongly that we are not paid what we are worth.
Outside in the real world the engineer is still the same so currently the mob reflects society - just outside we don't have all the other ****e to go with it.
however, an engineer makes very few mistakes, is honest about them and doesn't let things just drift. can you say the same for whatever PSF is called this week? Why should they be happy about having some twerp at a desk paid the same to bimble around making ****ups left and right??
Back to your pay and pensions thread - if it was on a piece of paper you should get it - however if new boys get more than you, TS.
You are doing all right compared to outside, so, I'll take a bottle of glenfiddich off your hands
We don't (and didn't) care what anyone above us was paid but feel really strongly that we are not paid what we are worth.
Outside in the real world the engineer is still the same so currently the mob reflects society - just outside we don't have all the other ****e to go with it.
however, an engineer makes very few mistakes, is honest about them and doesn't let things just drift. can you say the same for whatever PSF is called this week? Why should they be happy about having some twerp at a desk paid the same to bimble around making ****ups left and right??
Back to your pay and pensions thread - if it was on a piece of paper you should get it - however if new boys get more than you, TS.
You are doing all right compared to outside, so, I'll take a bottle of glenfiddich off your hands
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Help Please?
Stanley Eevil or StopStart......
Any chance of a PM with the datails of the e-mail regarding reserved rights as i fear i may be in the same boat with some holes already leaking water!
Thanks in advance.
Any chance of a PM with the datails of the e-mail regarding reserved rights as i fear i may be in the same boat with some holes already leaking water!
Thanks in advance.
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cornish-stormrider, don't you find it slightly ironic that engineers are always on this site telling flyers that they don't respect engineers but it seems that you are quite happy to give aircrew no professional respect at all.
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Having spent the first 14 years of my time as an engineer and the last 21 as aircrew there is a very simple answer to the conundrum you suggest
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Will the AFPRB bother to report this year?
Ok, so it's a little early to start the normal discussion about next year's pay rise (?) now. However, with the Chancellor having already said that Armed Forces pay will be frozen for the next 2 years, I'm wondering how this sits with the AFPRB. I thought that the object of this organisation was to be independant from the government and provide a recommendation on pay and allowances every year.
To my knowledge the governement has only ever rubber stamped their recommendation and has always implemented it. I'm left wondering what is the point of the AFPRB's work this year? Or will they come to the conclusion that pay should be frozen too?
I notice how the PM was keen to point out the increase in OA (which I obviously whole-heartedly support) but doesn't seem to have mentioned the pay freeze, NI and Income Tax increases and reductions in other allowances (HTD being one example?).
To my knowledge the governement has only ever rubber stamped their recommendation and has always implemented it. I'm left wondering what is the point of the AFPRB's work this year? Or will they come to the conclusion that pay should be frozen too?
I notice how the PM was keen to point out the increase in OA (which I obviously whole-heartedly support) but doesn't seem to have mentioned the pay freeze, NI and Income Tax increases and reductions in other allowances (HTD being one example?).
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Surely another saving to be had - Gov says Frozen (or £250 for JRs) and don't bother paying AFPRB for 2 years!
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AFPRB
Sadly, memories fade. The AFPRB reported all through the mid 70s but was over-ridden by the Labour Government, which imposed pay restraint to such an extent that by 1979 pay was 35% or so behind that recommended by the AFPRB. It took a Conservative Government to bring pay up to the recommended level.
Even they did not rubber stamp the AFPRB Reports. Apart from seeking to influence the outcome by briefing on 'affordability' before the process started, in a number of years in the mid 90s, when the budget was well balanced and the economy was doing well, the award was staged. This effectively 'fined' or 'taxed' servicemen for simply being in the service, although I could never get the members of the AFPRB to see it that way. Even Baroness Brenda Dean, who could hardly be expected to be a friend of the Major Government, could not see that withholding pay was a fine or a tax.
So how did the AFPRB do:
1989 Above RPI Rise
1990 Below RPI Rise and staged
1991 Above RPI Rise
1992 Below RPI Rise
1993 Above RPI Rise
1994 Above RPI Rise and staged
1995 Below RPI Rise
1996 Above RPI Rise and staged
1997 Above RPI Rise and staged
1998 Above RPI Rise and staged
1999 Above RPI Rise
2000 Above RPI Rise
2001 Above RPI Rise
2002 Above RPI Rise
2003 Spot on RPI Rise
2004 Below RPI Rise
2005 Above RPI Rise
2006 Below RPI Rise
2007 Below RPI Rise
2008 Below RPI Rise
2009 Below RPI Rise
2010 Above RPI rise
Incidentally, I made my protests about staging to the AFPRB in late 1998, so I may have been listened to, as we have not been staged since. Staging is a particularly mean trick as it produces pension troughs, as, of course, does a 2 year pay freeze.
More worrying in the long term is the insidious effect on pensions of the change from RPI to CPI. I am not sure people have grasped this yet but my calculations are that, based on historical data over the last 10 years, pensions in issue could be lower by 10% at 65, 25% at 85 and 40% at 100 years of age because of the change. If I live as long as my dear old dad, I will face an old age with a pension 75%, and decreasing, of the value I was rightfully expecting (Pensions Increase Act 1971 and Army Pensions Warrant 1977, AFPS 75 etc). If I live to 100, I probably will be too gaga to care. This will also affect the widows, who will get a lower pension as well.
Even they did not rubber stamp the AFPRB Reports. Apart from seeking to influence the outcome by briefing on 'affordability' before the process started, in a number of years in the mid 90s, when the budget was well balanced and the economy was doing well, the award was staged. This effectively 'fined' or 'taxed' servicemen for simply being in the service, although I could never get the members of the AFPRB to see it that way. Even Baroness Brenda Dean, who could hardly be expected to be a friend of the Major Government, could not see that withholding pay was a fine or a tax.
So how did the AFPRB do:
1989 Above RPI Rise
1990 Below RPI Rise and staged
1991 Above RPI Rise
1992 Below RPI Rise
1993 Above RPI Rise
1994 Above RPI Rise and staged
1995 Below RPI Rise
1996 Above RPI Rise and staged
1997 Above RPI Rise and staged
1998 Above RPI Rise and staged
1999 Above RPI Rise
2000 Above RPI Rise
2001 Above RPI Rise
2002 Above RPI Rise
2003 Spot on RPI Rise
2004 Below RPI Rise
2005 Above RPI Rise
2006 Below RPI Rise
2007 Below RPI Rise
2008 Below RPI Rise
2009 Below RPI Rise
2010 Above RPI rise
Incidentally, I made my protests about staging to the AFPRB in late 1998, so I may have been listened to, as we have not been staged since. Staging is a particularly mean trick as it produces pension troughs, as, of course, does a 2 year pay freeze.
More worrying in the long term is the insidious effect on pensions of the change from RPI to CPI. I am not sure people have grasped this yet but my calculations are that, based on historical data over the last 10 years, pensions in issue could be lower by 10% at 65, 25% at 85 and 40% at 100 years of age because of the change. If I live as long as my dear old dad, I will face an old age with a pension 75%, and decreasing, of the value I was rightfully expecting (Pensions Increase Act 1971 and Army Pensions Warrant 1977, AFPS 75 etc). If I live to 100, I probably will be too gaga to care. This will also affect the widows, who will get a lower pension as well.
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They will decide how much food, accom and other costs will go up. They may also have a look at how to reduce the 'claims' amount e.g. HDT, MMA. Who knows, they mat double flying pay!!!!! Or add a Blunty bonus?????
There is plenty of work for them to justify their expenses!!!
There is plenty of work for them to justify their expenses!!!
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IMHO...
Pay review bodies are as defunked as Unions and Associations at times like these. A flat rate 2%/3% or what ever doesn't sit well with anyone outside of the public service body. Pay freeze and job cuts within the military are bound to happen...the guys in Afganistan deserve far more...aim it there...I spent 23 years in the RAF watching the detachment dodgers talking up their pension rights whilst sat in the local circuit. After 3 years away I realise now what damage has been done to the services by those within who say one thing but are really only looking after themselves.
5d2d
5d2d
