End of a distinguished career?
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I worked on the VC 10 many years ago. They were dogs then fer christ sake! Can't imagine what they're like now. There are much cheaper to operate types now available that would get you to where you want to go with the added advantage that you would not have to go to museums to get spares and you could spend less time on the ground without replacing half of the airframe every C check. You could also take off without setting off every car alarm in a 20 mile radius of the runway. Imagine having a type rating on an aircraft still in production? Just counting the number of inflight meals eaten by the 2 spare seat cushion heaters in the flight deck would save the MOD enough to buy at least one A330!
I don't think even Tefal would be interested in buying the old airframes.
Sorry but they have had their time. Hell, they were past it years ago.
I don't think even Tefal would be interested in buying the old airframes.
Sorry but they have had their time. Hell, they were past it years ago.
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I first flew on a VC10 in 1968 when my dad was posted out to Penang. 10 years later I was working on them as a young JT engineman.
I have no idea how many hours I have spent flying in them but with all my air teats in that first 3 years and all my subsequent detachments in the Tonka world it must be loads.
I have fond memories of the beautiful aircraft and it is a shame that it is on the way out. But sadly it is time.
I have no idea how many hours I have spent flying in them but with all my air teats in that first 3 years and all my subsequent detachments in the Tonka world it must be loads.
I have fond memories of the beautiful aircraft and it is a shame that it is on the way out. But sadly it is time.
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A glorious aircraft of which I have fond memories up front and down the back. I guess we all hit our retirement date, but I hope somebody will feel as sad for me as I shall feel for the 10
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If I understand this correctly, it is only losing its pax role, something which was always going to happen soon. The sound of the vickers 'whisper Jet' will still be heard over the Oxfordshire countryside for a couple more years, something to keep all its fans happy.
Have spent many a happy hour in the aforementioned aircraft, but everybody knows its days are numbered. It is just too expensive to run, and in an era where everything is being cut to the bone, it was inevitably going to be a casualty. I am quite surprised that we haven't gone for the capability holiday and retired the old girl completely, although i dare say there is time for that.
For now, I still love seeing it around the skies, it looks good and sounds good but costs that bit too much.
TC
Have spent many a happy hour in the aforementioned aircraft, but everybody knows its days are numbered. It is just too expensive to run, and in an era where everything is being cut to the bone, it was inevitably going to be a casualty. I am quite surprised that we haven't gone for the capability holiday and retired the old girl completely, although i dare say there is time for that.
For now, I still love seeing it around the skies, it looks good and sounds good but costs that bit too much.
TC
As a very young Air Cadet many years ago, I had my first ever flight in a VC10. I was quite surprised on subsequent flights with differing airlines to find their seats were the wrong way round!! I didn't realise it was just the RAF who had people sitting facing the blunt end.
As others have said, its sad to see the old girl not carrying pax to exotic locations anymore (Belize and Cyprus twice in my case) but I suppose old age comes to us all. I hope they continue to fly in the very necessary in flight refuelling role, but I suppose days are numbered in that role as well.
Lets just hope that at least one of the RAF's pax carrying variety is preserved somewhere where future generations can admire her in all her glory.
Pete
As others have said, its sad to see the old girl not carrying pax to exotic locations anymore (Belize and Cyprus twice in my case) but I suppose old age comes to us all. I hope they continue to fly in the very necessary in flight refuelling role, but I suppose days are numbered in that role as well.
Lets just hope that at least one of the RAF's pax carrying variety is preserved somewhere where future generations can admire her in all her glory.
Pete
Although the FunBus is indeed 'somdeel stape in age', as its birth contemporary Geoffrey Chaucer might well have observed, it is not the fact that the aircraft is being retired which grates, it is the fact that a 4-person flight deck aircraft flown professionally and safely is now being regulated by cover-my-arse idiots as though it was some bottom-feeders' lo-co 737 being flown by the cheapest crew who can be dredged out of the gutters of the airline world.
Sure it's an old jet well overdue for replacement. If this policy is some clever Airships' ploy to protect the FSTA and A400M programmes, there might be some merit in it. But I fear that 'clever Airship' is nowadays an oxymoron....
Sure it's an old jet well overdue for replacement. If this policy is some clever Airships' ploy to protect the FSTA and A400M programmes, there might be some merit in it. But I fear that 'clever Airship' is nowadays an oxymoron....
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Compulsory PT
NFF,
Don't knock compulsory PT - dynamic, short-notice, medium-term asset management decisions like that are exactly the kind of go-getting, get it done spirit on which careers are built .....
I applaud the encouragement of under-used gymnasium, err....usage.
Just don't go breaking yourself....
Don't knock compulsory PT - dynamic, short-notice, medium-term asset management decisions like that are exactly the kind of go-getting, get it done spirit on which careers are built .....
I applaud the encouragement of under-used gymnasium, err....usage.
Just don't go breaking yourself....
Last edited by tommee_hawk; 19th Jan 2010 at 22:35.
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Ref the KC-135's. If you have ever been to Tinker AFB and look into the refurb hangers. To see a bare metal KC-135 awaiting a complete make over including new engines, is a sight worth seeing. And its not only one aircraft. Not knowing what goes on in Cambridge, when was the last time any of our AT got that treatment.
Biggest differance is the US will spend the money to get the most out of their A/C (C-5M, B-52H)
Biggest differance is the US will spend the money to get the most out of their A/C (C-5M, B-52H)
it is the fact that a 4-person flight deck aircraft flown professionally and safely
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Navigation error!
But there was the one many years ago that became very lost going towards Washington DC, through a nav error I believe, and allegedly was hundreds of mile off track.
Kenparry,
It's a bit of a stretch to find a 40 plus year old major navigation screw-up, then compare it to current VC10 ops - but maybe that's not what you're trying to suggest....?
While everyone can make mistakes, surely it's an indication of the continued professional, safe operation of the VC10's 4-man cockpit that the only VC10 story like this is the thick end of 50 years old?
Kenparry,
It's a bit of a stretch to find a 40 plus year old major navigation screw-up, then compare it to current VC10 ops - but maybe that's not what you're trying to suggest....?
While everyone can make mistakes, surely it's an indication of the continued professional, safe operation of the VC10's 4-man cockpit that the only VC10 story like this is the thick end of 50 years old?
Last edited by tommee_hawk; 20th Jan 2010 at 23:17.
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At the risk of getting back to the thread, isn't the fact that the incident was so long ago part of the issue? We still have these venerable old birds on our books.
Anyway, my understanding is that, by the time the nav had done his sums, the star shot told you where you had been half an hour ago. Plenty of time to stray off track in the meantime.
Is the same airframe still in service? That might shed light on the scale of the age problem.
Anyway, my understanding is that, by the time the nav had done his sums, the star shot told you where you had been half an hour ago. Plenty of time to stray off track in the meantime.
Is the same airframe still in service? That might shed light on the scale of the age problem.
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My thoughts
I think the VC10 will soon continue to fly it's core mission of providing worldwide AT & AAR until a phased introduction of the A330 FSTA begins in 2011.
I don't blame the minister for making the instant decision he felt he had to, given the evidence he had at the time. 'Covering his six maybe', but ultimately it was the safest option until a review could be made.
Clearly the VC10 will not be the only ac in the military inventory to be reviewed in the wake of the Nimrod enquiry (standby C130K fleet). It is slightly disappointing to go from being OK to 'no passenger flying' overnight, but once presented with the evidence that has been gathered in response to this, I'd expect a favourable decision when weighing up the true risk involved in VC10 AT ops.
It seems that the worry here is more the risk to 'civilian pax' carried i.e. family movements (AKT schedule), fun flights, indulgees, charity event flights etc.
Cost and age aside, it's quite likely (in my opinion) that an agreement will soon be reached to continue it's AT missions for military personnel only; which is of course the majority of the AT task.
Let's wait and see. Maybe the sudden and large bill for charter will give ministers a shock in itself!
Personally, I think that the 'fail safe' fatigue life design of the VC10 together with it's excellent safety record and proven operating procedures make it a far safer platform than most outsiders might presume. Long live the VC10.
I don't blame the minister for making the instant decision he felt he had to, given the evidence he had at the time. 'Covering his six maybe', but ultimately it was the safest option until a review could be made.
Clearly the VC10 will not be the only ac in the military inventory to be reviewed in the wake of the Nimrod enquiry (standby C130K fleet). It is slightly disappointing to go from being OK to 'no passenger flying' overnight, but once presented with the evidence that has been gathered in response to this, I'd expect a favourable decision when weighing up the true risk involved in VC10 AT ops.
It seems that the worry here is more the risk to 'civilian pax' carried i.e. family movements (AKT schedule), fun flights, indulgees, charity event flights etc.
Cost and age aside, it's quite likely (in my opinion) that an agreement will soon be reached to continue it's AT missions for military personnel only; which is of course the majority of the AT task.
Let's wait and see. Maybe the sudden and large bill for charter will give ministers a shock in itself!
Personally, I think that the 'fail safe' fatigue life design of the VC10 together with it's excellent safety record and proven operating procedures make it a far safer platform than most outsiders might presume. Long live the VC10.
Last edited by radio-silent; 22nd Jan 2010 at 00:40.
Clearly the VC10 will not be the only ac in the military inventory to be reviewed in the wake of the Nimrod enquiry (standby C130K fleet).
Perhaps this explains the "early" decision - other fleets may take longer but information on VC10 is reasonably up to date. I'd say, well done to that project team. Difficult decision.
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The UK Ministry of Defence has clarified its position with regard to the restrictions imposed on some passenger operations with the Royal Air Force's Vickers VC10s, and says the type "remains safe to fly".
"Passengers are still being flown on VC10s on defence business, including pre-deployment exercises, such as to Kenya," the MoD says.
Updating an earlier statement in which it had said that all passenger-carrying activities with the almost 50-year-old type had been halted because of an ongoing airworthiness review, it now says: "We have temporarily stopped using VC10s for a small number of flights while we review the basis on which passengers fly on the aircraft in roles equivalent to commercial flights."
It adds: "The VC10 remains safe to fly, and continues to do so in support of operations over Afghanistan, with air-to-air refuelling of RAF [Panavia] Tornado GR4s and other coalition aircraft on request."
"Passengers are still being flown on VC10s on defence business, including pre-deployment exercises, such as to Kenya," the MoD says.
Updating an earlier statement in which it had said that all passenger-carrying activities with the almost 50-year-old type had been halted because of an ongoing airworthiness review, it now says: "We have temporarily stopped using VC10s for a small number of flights while we review the basis on which passengers fly on the aircraft in roles equivalent to commercial flights."
It adds: "The VC10 remains safe to fly, and continues to do so in support of operations over Afghanistan, with air-to-air refuelling of RAF [Panavia] Tornado GR4s and other coalition aircraft on request."