SAR Cover Increasing? Safety over money for a change!
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I may be mistake but I think that Gannet SAR flight (The UK's busiest SAR Flight) have 2 Aircraft and 4 crews....sometimes 3 1/2 crews
The whole plan seems to be based on historical statistics. Generally speaking, Chivenor gets a reasonable number of Med-Transfers during the night, together with a few searches, but not many immediate life saving jobs. However, they do get the rare high profile long range night rescues and major incidents.
The long range rescues will go to Culdrose when the fleet it unified and I think the major incidents will be taken on risk.
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I think that you are absolutely right.
I have good friends who work for Portland and Lee SAR and they all agree that it is perfectly possible to run a SAR flight with one aircraft. The Lee aircraft has a 100% servicability rate this year and last year it was down for 90 minutes...throughout the entire year....they achieve all of that with either 1 or maybe 2 engineers. If you go to Portland SAR flight tomorrow there will be 5/6 people there....thats it. If you go to 771 at Culdrose tomorrow there will be close to 100 people there (Unfair comparison I know but it makes the stats look good).
I have good friends who work for Portland and Lee SAR and they all agree that it is perfectly possible to run a SAR flight with one aircraft. The Lee aircraft has a 100% servicability rate this year and last year it was down for 90 minutes...throughout the entire year....they achieve all of that with either 1 or maybe 2 engineers. If you go to Portland SAR flight tomorrow there will be 5/6 people there....thats it. If you go to 771 at Culdrose tomorrow there will be close to 100 people there (Unfair comparison I know but it makes the stats look good).
Vec - their aircraft is brand new, doesn't do as many hours and hasn't been available for night wet winching due to the lack of suitable lighting and uncleared autopilot modes - not exactly the shining example of how it should be done. Your friends will also doubtless tell you what an awful working environment the contractors have provided with everything focussed on profit by reducing costs.
Gannet haven't had a second standby for a long while because they are undermanned (primarily rearcrew I believe) and, as yet, they haven't been required to comply with the EU WTD as the military were seeking exemptions - none given!
5.7 crews is what I believe is the actual figure for 1 aircraft on 24/7 SAR cover as required by our EU masters.
Donna - when Culdrose are on a long ranger at night post SARH, there will be no SAR cover for the whole of the SW - the nearest flights will be Valley or Lee - you might be happy to take that at risk but it ignores the very high probability that lives will be lost. I guess you are saying that searching for people in trouble isn't important then, nor is taking critically ill people to hospital - only immediate lifesaving counts, perleease
Gannet haven't had a second standby for a long while because they are undermanned (primarily rearcrew I believe) and, as yet, they haven't been required to comply with the EU WTD as the military were seeking exemptions - none given!
5.7 crews is what I believe is the actual figure for 1 aircraft on 24/7 SAR cover as required by our EU masters.
Donna - when Culdrose are on a long ranger at night post SARH, there will be no SAR cover for the whole of the SW - the nearest flights will be Valley or Lee - you might be happy to take that at risk but it ignores the very high probability that lives will be lost. I guess you are saying that searching for people in trouble isn't important then, nor is taking critically ill people to hospital - only immediate lifesaving counts, perleease
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when Culdrose are on a long ranger at night post SARH, there will be no SAR cover for the whole of the SW - the nearest flights will be Valley or Lee - you might be happy to take that at risk but it ignores the very high probability that lives will be lost. I guess you are saying that searching for people in trouble isn't important then, nor is taking critically ill people to hospital - only immediate lifesaving counts, perleease
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Vec, even with your usual jaundiced outlook, that posting has to take the biscuit. The whole purpose of an organisation set up to save life is......wait for it..... to save life. If it was a matter of cost, I can think of an immediate solution to save the entire cost of the project, as I'm sure you could. By the way, if you're prepared to take the risk with 4 airbags, I've had another brainwave - zero airbags should save you even more. Of course if you, like me, value your life and those of your loved ones, perhaps you should just bite the bullet and invest?
Genius vec - absolute genius
I know, lets get rid of all the ambulances - that will save the NHS a fortune and we'll let sick people make their own way to hospital.
I know, lets get rid of all the ambulances - that will save the NHS a fortune and we'll let sick people make their own way to hospital.
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You are of course absolutely correct and I apologise for getting it wrong. Lives are much more important. It was a mistake on my part and for that I can only offer my most humble apologies.
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crab
Portland has always been 12 hr cover, not as you suggest above, reducing to 12hr.
spr
This 12 hour manning is temporary and nothing to do with the SARH planned reduction in SAR service post 2012 which will see Portland, Chivenor and Boulmer reduced to 12 hour cover PERMANENTLY in order to save the contractors money.
spr
Sapper - yes it will retain its 12 hour status post 2012 which still leaves the rather bizarre situation where one flight (Lee) has to cover the whole of the Channel from Dover to Plymouth at night if Chiv is down to 12 hour cover.
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Did the reduced manning affect the number assets the SARF was able to field in Cumbria last night?
Would it be any different post SARH?
Fingers crossed for the missing Police Officer.
Would it be any different post SARH?
Fingers crossed for the missing Police Officer.
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According to BBC news website there were 5 RAF sea kings involved. Assuming the reports to be accurate (and I'm sure crab@ will happily inform us once he has saved everyone 
) then that is an excellent response from an organisation that is suffering from reduced manpower and I believe is not operating second standby crews at present either.
I believe too that the RAF Valley SAR helo is on reduced operating hours at the moment with a crew away in the Falklands so to get 5 aircraft there from the other bases is good going.
As an aside did the RN SAR helo from Prestwick get involved too? There seems no mention of it but of course the press may have got it slightly wrong and included it as a RAF one
) then that is an excellent response from an organisation that is suffering from reduced manpower and I believe is not operating second standby crews at present either. I believe too that the RAF Valley SAR helo is on reduced operating hours at the moment with a crew away in the Falklands so to get 5 aircraft there from the other bases is good going.
As an aside did the RN SAR helo from Prestwick get involved too? There seems no mention of it but of course the press may have got it slightly wrong and included it as a RAF one
Yes, Him
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that is an excellent response from an organisation that is suffering from reduced manpower
I look forward to Crab's views.
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As an aside did the RN SAR helo from Prestwick get involved too? There seems no mention of it but of course the press may have got it slightly wrong and included it as a RAF one
Hmm, aren't two of those slated to go to 12 hrs?!
It's a good thing that major flooding events are so rare these days
Yes let's see the SARH blueprint applied to this situation!!!!!
But it's OK, the powers that be keep chanting the same mantra about how newer, faster helicopters mean you can provide the same cover with fewer assets - and it's bollocks - the fastest helicopter in the world can't be in two places at once and when an asset with a huge operational area is tasked, it leaves an even huger area with no cover.
But it's OK, the powers that be keep chanting the same mantra about how newer, faster helicopters mean you can provide the same cover with fewer assets - and it's bollocks - the fastest helicopter in the world can't be in two places at once and when an asset with a huge operational area is tasked, it leaves an even huger area with no cover.
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A geniune question as I am not trying to detract from the great work done by the crews at Gannet but could someone in the know give a break down of how many of those 400 'missions' were hospital transfers or medical evacuations from the Islands to mainland hospitals?
Thank you.
SW
ps Is the new Navy rank of Aircrewman Corporal the start of SAR-H harmonisation??
Thank you.
SW
ps Is the new Navy rank of Aircrewman Corporal the start of SAR-H harmonisation??
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how many of those 400 'missions' were hospital transfers or medical evacuations from the Islands to mainland hospitals?
Is the new Navy rank of Aircrewman Corporal the start of SAR-H harmonisation??