Practice interceptions of civil aircraft
Ecce Homo! Loquitur...
Didn't say it didn't happen, it did (frequently), but it was always unofficial and against the rules. It was prohibited by regulations and if anything had ever gone wrong a CM would have followed.
In the 70/80s BA used to fly round trip charity flights for kids on weekends around Xmas and ask to be intercepted, and we'd oblige. "No Santa on his sleigh kids, but if you look out the left hand window you'll see an RAF F4..."
The Norwich Flier got intercepted regularily, as stated, as did puddle jumpers for crossing the North Sea in the Great yarmouth area. WT had to man the CAP down there even though there were never any targets. So, if you saw a low, slow contact it was, "intercept with caution" (It'a civvie, don't scare him). As I recall one intercept, where the crew misjudged their closing speed, the call was, "low, slow, yellow, cesssnnnnnaaa" as they pulled about 9G to miss him.
You'd also "intercept" airways traffic by coordinating and maintaining a 1000ft below, at least when the aircraft was squawking Mode C. I recall one such intercept with a Shar.
SHar: "Visual"
Controller: "Roger, should be a SAS DC9".
SHar: "No, this is a XXX 737, and there's a woman in a yellow dress in the last row waving at me."
The most flak I ever saw was when the LU QRA was holding north of Saxa (usual Bear Fs that didn't penetrate) and was intercepting the atlantic traffic to pass the time. (At the time Saxa parked the labels on RAPDS and the controller and crew did intercepts whilst the DC in the Bunker, and any 2*s in their offices were unaware) When he got on the ground the bright spark of a Nav "claimed" a Korean Air 747 in the INTSUM to SACEUR. This was a couple of months after the Russians had shot one down. What a fun day that turned out to be**....
So:
Rule 1: Intercepts on Civil aircraft are prohibited.
Rule 2: If I ever intercepted one, I didn't know it was a civilian.**
Rule 3. If I did know it was a civilian, my aircraft never got closer than +/- 1000/2000 ft.
Rule 4: I deny everything.
(**The explanation given and, and I don't know how anyone up the ladder kept a straight face, was that the 747 was off the expected flight plan track and they thought it might be one of the Bears...)
In the 70/80s BA used to fly round trip charity flights for kids on weekends around Xmas and ask to be intercepted, and we'd oblige. "No Santa on his sleigh kids, but if you look out the left hand window you'll see an RAF F4..."
The Norwich Flier got intercepted regularily, as stated, as did puddle jumpers for crossing the North Sea in the Great yarmouth area. WT had to man the CAP down there even though there were never any targets. So, if you saw a low, slow contact it was, "intercept with caution" (It'a civvie, don't scare him). As I recall one intercept, where the crew misjudged their closing speed, the call was, "low, slow, yellow, cesssnnnnnaaa" as they pulled about 9G to miss him.
You'd also "intercept" airways traffic by coordinating and maintaining a 1000ft below, at least when the aircraft was squawking Mode C. I recall one such intercept with a Shar.
SHar: "Visual"
Controller: "Roger, should be a SAS DC9".
SHar: "No, this is a XXX 737, and there's a woman in a yellow dress in the last row waving at me."
The most flak I ever saw was when the LU QRA was holding north of Saxa (usual Bear Fs that didn't penetrate) and was intercepting the atlantic traffic to pass the time. (At the time Saxa parked the labels on RAPDS and the controller and crew did intercepts whilst the DC in the Bunker, and any 2*s in their offices were unaware) When he got on the ground the bright spark of a Nav "claimed" a Korean Air 747 in the INTSUM to SACEUR. This was a couple of months after the Russians had shot one down. What a fun day that turned out to be**....
So:
Rule 1: Intercepts on Civil aircraft are prohibited.
Rule 2: If I ever intercepted one, I didn't know it was a civilian.**
Rule 3. If I did know it was a civilian, my aircraft never got closer than +/- 1000/2000 ft.
Rule 4: I deny everything.
(**The explanation given and, and I don't know how anyone up the ladder kept a straight face, was that the 747 was off the expected flight plan track and they thought it might be one of the Bears...)
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Lightning Mate
"I intercepted Concorde in the 70s"
In what may I ask?
As tasked: with a Sparrow sim plug
The Lightning flew higher but the F4 had a missile that could snap up. In parameters and verified.
G-AXDN ran a round UK profile for training purposes
Concorde at 65k and one heck of a pull from a long way out. About the longest shot I took in the 70s IIRC
Or did I misunderstand the term "interception" in the title of the thread?
"I intercepted Concorde in the 70s"
In what may I ask?
As tasked: with a Sparrow sim plug
The Lightning flew higher but the F4 had a missile that could snap up. In parameters and verified.G-AXDN ran a round UK profile for training purposes
Concorde at 65k and one heck of a pull from a long way out. About the longest shot I took in the 70s IIRC
Or did I misunderstand the term "interception" in the title of the thread?
Last edited by Geehovah; 4th Nov 2009 at 19:44.
The Parisian interceptor is Police Squirrel Helicopter (cant remember the Military name for it!) with a Marksman (and a big gun!) and an electric signpost hanging under the Skids!
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Not entirely correct. I was on duty at 280SU that night (early morning in fact) ans we didn't get any flight plan information at all. Therefore it was a real scramble as far as we were concerned too.
"The Parisian interceptor is Police Squirrel Helicopter (cant remember the Military name for it!) with a Marksman (and a big gun!) and an electric signpost hanging under the Skids!"
Rigga,
I thought that was the Armee de l' Air squadron with AS-355N Fennec at Villacoublay, EH 03.067 that patrols the Parisian airspace
Rigga,
I thought that was the Armee de l' Air squadron with AS-355N Fennec at Villacoublay, EH 03.067 that patrols the Parisian airspace
Somewhere East of Leuchars, early 80s, dusk, young Fortissimo in F4, playmate gone home, burning off fuel with some practice whifferdills:
(Buchan) "C/S blah blah, Jetstream, 4 POB, blah..."
YF to trusty nav: "That's near us, isn't it?"
TN: "Yep. (Pause...) Contact 20 right, 5 up, 12 miles..."
YF: "Let's VID..."
Visual, confirms twin type at 4 miles, YF opts to try fun lag-roll thing, lights orange bits at back of F4 and passes inverted 200ft or so over top of Jetstream to impress ME student filth before pushing off to Leuchars.
Buchan: "From the Bandeirante pilot, thanks very much, his passengers enjoyed it!"
TN: "Well it looked like a Jetstream to me..."
(Buchan) "C/S blah blah, Jetstream, 4 POB, blah..."
YF to trusty nav: "That's near us, isn't it?"
TN: "Yep. (Pause...) Contact 20 right, 5 up, 12 miles..."
YF: "Let's VID..."
Visual, confirms twin type at 4 miles, YF opts to try fun lag-roll thing, lights orange bits at back of F4 and passes inverted 200ft or so over top of Jetstream to impress ME student filth before pushing off to Leuchars.
Buchan: "From the Bandeirante pilot, thanks very much, his passengers enjoyed it!"
TN: "Well it looked like a Jetstream to me..."
The MOD hired Concorde from BAC (IIRC) for a supersonic intercept practice. It flew a circuit around the North Sea at M 2.0 as a target for each fighter wing in turn. It may even have been late 60s as I recall the Notam and exercise instruction but from 1970 I was overseas.
Interesting relative to first supersonic flight in Oct 69 which, curiously enough, was the month I first saw one whilst on leave in SW France.
Jack
Interesting relative to first supersonic flight in Oct 69 which, curiously enough, was the month I first saw one whilst on leave in SW France.
Jack
Well Concorde was certainly used a a target on the bigger Adex's in the early 80's..and yes, it was certainly possible for an F-4 to get a validated Sparrow/Skyflash "kill" against it...
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Thems were the days.................
Watched 2 UKTORF3 decide to 'embellish' Concorde in the Bristol Channel (as she was starting her run) - all cleared through the Sector Chief - can't remember what the coordination was, not that it mattered. A better demonstration of Target Lead I have never seen since!
On the more recent side 2 FA2 Sea Harriers were asked to intercept an airliner a week or so post 9/11 over Southern UK. They were on a training flight and London Mil asked if they could close said airliner. No dramas, get a position (suspect Lon Mil didn't have a Bullseye in force), find it on radar, close it....say, how close do you want us to get? "How close can you get?" Needless to say the pilots were a little surprised to see two pointy grey things appearing from under the nose!
Nice to see that the next day, the papers reported that 2 RAF Harriers had intercepted an airliner..........
Not at FL350 and M0.85 they sodding didn't!
On the more recent side 2 FA2 Sea Harriers were asked to intercept an airliner a week or so post 9/11 over Southern UK. They were on a training flight and London Mil asked if they could close said airliner. No dramas, get a position (suspect Lon Mil didn't have a Bullseye in force), find it on radar, close it....say, how close do you want us to get? "How close can you get?" Needless to say the pilots were a little surprised to see two pointy grey things appearing from under the nose!
Nice to see that the next day, the papers reported that 2 RAF Harriers had intercepted an airliner..........
Not at FL350 and M0.85 they sodding didn't!
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Is there any facility for civil aircraft - CPL / PPL to "volunteer" as fodder for practice intercepts?
Might be interesting for mil crew to try intercepting a helicopter in the Scottish glens, for example.
John
Might be interesting for mil crew to try intercepting a helicopter in the Scottish glens, for example.
John
!
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Practice Intercepting or simply destroying my pride and joy?....
Suppose you wanted to intercept and divert a 'copter to an airfield. Can you fly that slow in a fast jet (Harrier excepted, of course)? In the Scottish glens?
Just thought it would be interesting but never having been in (let alone driven) a Mil jet I could be wasting your time with my silly questions. If so, I am sorry. I think my home gets "bombed" on a regular basis (fantastic to watch) and I am very happy for that to continue. If there is no (or little) risk to me or you I would be happy to provide occasional airborn slow-moving (by your standards) target at 500 ft.
John
Suppose you wanted to intercept and divert a 'copter to an airfield. Can you fly that slow in a fast jet (Harrier excepted, of course)? In the Scottish glens?
Just thought it would be interesting but never having been in (let alone driven) a Mil jet I could be wasting your time with my silly questions. If so, I am sorry. I think my home gets "bombed" on a regular basis (fantastic to watch) and I am very happy for that to continue. If there is no (or little) risk to me or you I would be happy to provide occasional airborn slow-moving (by your standards) target at 500 ft.
John
Yes, Him
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If a FJ in a for real situation wanted to remove you he'd likely overfly you at warp snot and dismantle your steed, probably the last thing you'd see would be the blades disappearing out of your peripheral vision.
Scenario two, you'd be excellent sport, well for about 20sec, for some helo door gunner or an Apache.
I really doubt anybody would take up your offer, you can just see the headlines.
Scenario two, you'd be excellent sport, well for about 20sec, for some helo door gunner or an Apache.
I really doubt anybody would take up your offer, you can just see the headlines.