Territorial Army tng binned "temporarily" to save £ - Could We Save Money Other Ways?
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The Army could save a lot more money if it aligned its Intermediate Staff Course with that of the RN & RAF. 9 months compared to 8 weeks is frankly taking the proverbial, it just looks like an excuse to keep 200 extra SO2s.
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Given the current length of IOT, (and assuming ISS is still ongoing - it's been a while), then I would suggest 8 weeks for ICSC is too long!
In terms of saving money, I would start by looking at some of the ludicrous agreements we have to stand by at the moment - booking hotels through HRG and buying phones and computers from the 'special catalogue' (costs more, lower spec etc). White fleet vehicle provision is also barking - staffed by people intent on providing vehicles that are almost, but not quite, exactly what we didn't ask for.
We used to have a thing called GEMS but I haven't heard of it in a while.
Rant Off
STH
In terms of saving money, I would start by looking at some of the ludicrous agreements we have to stand by at the moment - booking hotels through HRG and buying phones and computers from the 'special catalogue' (costs more, lower spec etc). White fleet vehicle provision is also barking - staffed by people intent on providing vehicles that are almost, but not quite, exactly what we didn't ask for.
We used to have a thing called GEMS but I haven't heard of it in a while.
Rant Off
STH
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Not turning on the heating in a major Oxfordshire air base, including in the mess's until the 19th of October must be saving a small fortune... even if it is leaving everyone bloody freezing.
Really does show you what the Government think of the Military.
If we really want to save money we should start by deporting the vast quantities of illegal immigrants currently shacked up in luxury apartments and paid not to work.
But that would be too sensible.
If we really want to save money we should start by deporting the vast quantities of illegal immigrants currently shacked up in luxury apartments and paid not to work.
But that would be too sensible.
>Not turning on the heating in a major Oxfordshire air base, including in the mess's until the 19th of October must be saving a small fortune... even if it is leaving everyone bloody freezing.<
Not turning on the heat in Daedalus Mess at Cranwell last week ditto.
Not turning on the heat in Daedalus Mess at Cranwell last week ditto.
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Confusion reigns, again
I'm a bit confused - no change there, then - but I'm really not clear what this annoucement / leak actually means.
Taken at face value, those (i) not in training (Phase I? Phase II? Phase III?), (ii) not doing pre-deployment training, (iii) not in specialist units are down to 11 MTDs each.
But it what proportion of the TA is actually is actually outside (i), (ii) or (iii)?
And it would be invidious for people to be unable to qualify for bounty through no fault of their own, so presumably there will be a magic amendment to QRs to lower the qualification period to 11 days? Or not...
In which case, standby for the inevitable administrative incoming / lawsuits - which are thoroughly deserved IMHO. I've never understood the training utility of weekly training nights beyond social unit cohesion, which, whilst important is always going to be a complicated thing to explain.
Presumably, though, all the shortfall in training will be made up in longer pre-deployment training on call up - which is presumably on a different budget, so that's all fine, then.........
Rant mode: ON
But what this really demonstrates again is that there is no coherent answer to the exam question, "What are the Reserve Forces for?"
This is not limited to the TA - the RAuxAF and the RNR seem to be suffering under the same lack of direction.
Rant mode: OFF
S41
Taken at face value, those (i) not in training (Phase I? Phase II? Phase III?), (ii) not doing pre-deployment training, (iii) not in specialist units are down to 11 MTDs each.
But it what proportion of the TA is actually is actually outside (i), (ii) or (iii)?
And it would be invidious for people to be unable to qualify for bounty through no fault of their own, so presumably there will be a magic amendment to QRs to lower the qualification period to 11 days? Or not...
In which case, standby for the inevitable administrative incoming / lawsuits - which are thoroughly deserved IMHO. I've never understood the training utility of weekly training nights beyond social unit cohesion, which, whilst important is always going to be a complicated thing to explain. Presumably, though, all the shortfall in training will be made up in longer pre-deployment training on call up - which is presumably on a different budget, so that's all fine, then.........
Rant mode: ON
But what this really demonstrates again is that there is no coherent answer to the exam question, "What are the Reserve Forces for?"
This is not limited to the TA - the RAuxAF and the RNR seem to be suffering under the same lack of direction.
Rant mode: OFF
S41
Last edited by Squirrel 41; 11th Oct 2009 at 10:50. Reason: Hit send too soon....
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I was in Kebabland a few weeks ago..All non essential office Air-Con switched off after 1st Sep. also heard they were on late starts so they didn't have to turn the lights on....what next?
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Surely not turning on the heating is somewhat counter-productive as most livers-in will just turn on electric heaters in their accomodation and the rest of the staff have them on in their workplace?
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To sq41, et all
As a Reservist I find some of these comments a bit wide of the mark.
If one looks at the actual 'output' of a 'Regular / Reservist' vs the actual 'cost' of employing that person, the cost to the public purse will vary significantly depending on trade, skills and experience.
In the 'real / commercial world' that I'm usually in (and so is the electorate) we usually try to strive for best efficiency and productivity, ie you get the best of what you put in - really simple stuff.
As a Reservist I get paid X per day, I put in X (plus) effort skill, experience and all the good stuff that we ALL put into get the job done in difficult circumstances.
However, the annual cost to the public purse for me for:
1.Housing = zero
2.Housing my family = zero
3.Commuting = zero
4.Schooling my children = zero
I'm not suggesting for a nano second that the above shouldn't be paid for a Regular, but it does bring down the overall cost, to the public purse, for a Reservist to be productive, on a daily basis quite considerably.
For example - Pay £100 per day for a Reservist to go to the Sandpit for 4 months which is 120 days (£12,000). Fact.
This MUST be less that a Regular, of the same rank to do the same 4 month tour (£35,000pa, plus all of 1-4 above), assuming they are not 'productive' ie not actually 'fighting' for the other 8 months of that year.....(courses, doing 'admin', doing 'sport' and so on..)
I think you'll find that we provide a very efficient service to electorate. Especially when some of us pay 40% tax on our Reservist pay from the outset - cashback for the electorate....
I speak only of my light blue experiences. Per Ardua.....
If one looks at the actual 'output' of a 'Regular / Reservist' vs the actual 'cost' of employing that person, the cost to the public purse will vary significantly depending on trade, skills and experience.
In the 'real / commercial world' that I'm usually in (and so is the electorate) we usually try to strive for best efficiency and productivity, ie you get the best of what you put in - really simple stuff.
As a Reservist I get paid X per day, I put in X (plus) effort skill, experience and all the good stuff that we ALL put into get the job done in difficult circumstances.
However, the annual cost to the public purse for me for:
1.Housing = zero
2.Housing my family = zero
3.Commuting = zero
4.Schooling my children = zero
I'm not suggesting for a nano second that the above shouldn't be paid for a Regular, but it does bring down the overall cost, to the public purse, for a Reservist to be productive, on a daily basis quite considerably.
For example - Pay £100 per day for a Reservist to go to the Sandpit for 4 months which is 120 days (£12,000). Fact.
This MUST be less that a Regular, of the same rank to do the same 4 month tour (£35,000pa, plus all of 1-4 above), assuming they are not 'productive' ie not actually 'fighting' for the other 8 months of that year.....(courses, doing 'admin', doing 'sport' and so on..)
I think you'll find that we provide a very efficient service to electorate. Especially when some of us pay 40% tax on our Reservist pay from the outset - cashback for the electorate....
I speak only of my light blue experiences. Per Ardua.....
This still appears to be in progress:
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Lincolnshire | Red Arrows moving to new RAF base
About £30m, according to the tea lady.
BBC NEWS | UK | England | Lincolnshire | Red Arrows moving to new RAF base
About £30m, according to the tea lady.
Red On, Green On
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Just had a chuckle over this on Arrse:
The scene; a recently dusted office in a TA centre in southern England, one Tuesday night early April 2010. The phone rings. A fit Colour Sergeant reaches across, scratches at the gloss white paint on his left hand, then picks up the receiver. "A Coy 3 Loamshires, PSI speaking Sir".
"Ah Colour, it's Col. Newman calling from Bn HQ. Just wondered if I could have a word with the OC?"
"Sorry Sir, he's not in just yet."
"What about the 2 i/c?"
"I think he must have got that job he applied for in Brussels. He seemed quite pleased that he'd be able to give it his full attention now that his evenings were free."
"And OC 1 Pl?"
"Well he left in November, after that little disagreement with the Brigadier at the Remembrance Day parade. Oh, but you weren't with us then, were you? How is the Brigadier, by the way?"
"What? Oh, he's fine. That broken nose didn't take long to heal. The Pl Sgt?"
"Said he might be in later Sir."
"Well, I'm sure you can help. As you know, the Second Battalion is off to AFG, and Brigade wants a Company from me. Who've you got in 1 Pl?"
"Actually I rang round them all last week just to let them know we're starting up again. Let me see. Atkins has joined the Special Constabulary, Baker's changed his mobile number, Collins says he's got a girlfriend now, and Dawson has become a Jehovah's Witness. Evans is in jail, Flint and Gough went off to the RAuxAF, so I think they're starting their tour in June. Hollins was killed back in November with the First Battalion."
"Ah."
"Jones has got a job driving for Tesco's, so he can't do weekends. Kenyon's started to coach a kids' football team on Saturday mornings, so he's jacked too. Lamb handed his kit in last November. Murray's driving to London now, trying to get into the RMR. Norris says he's got a new boyfriend and can't be bothered with the TA any more, Osbourne's got a job in Liverpool and Parry's due out of Headley Court this week. He was Hollins' best mate, of course."
"Erm..."
"Quinn and Rogers got jobs with the New Post Office after the Christmas strike, so they're doing shifts. Smith said he might come in later in the summer, and Thompson says his girlfriend's pregnant so he's not doing any more tours. Umbugu got deported in January; apparently he wasn't from South Africa after all. Vernon sacked it back in October when they shut us down, and White's car's broken down. Xavier's started his college course, Young didn't answer and Zavros' parents have moved back to Greece, so he's gone with them. Do you want me to call 2 Pl Sir, or have you got the number?"
The scene; a recently dusted office in a TA centre in southern England, one Tuesday night early April 2010. The phone rings. A fit Colour Sergeant reaches across, scratches at the gloss white paint on his left hand, then picks up the receiver. "A Coy 3 Loamshires, PSI speaking Sir".
"Ah Colour, it's Col. Newman calling from Bn HQ. Just wondered if I could have a word with the OC?"
"Sorry Sir, he's not in just yet."
"What about the 2 i/c?"
"I think he must have got that job he applied for in Brussels. He seemed quite pleased that he'd be able to give it his full attention now that his evenings were free."
"And OC 1 Pl?"
"Well he left in November, after that little disagreement with the Brigadier at the Remembrance Day parade. Oh, but you weren't with us then, were you? How is the Brigadier, by the way?"
"What? Oh, he's fine. That broken nose didn't take long to heal. The Pl Sgt?"
"Said he might be in later Sir."
"Well, I'm sure you can help. As you know, the Second Battalion is off to AFG, and Brigade wants a Company from me. Who've you got in 1 Pl?"
"Actually I rang round them all last week just to let them know we're starting up again. Let me see. Atkins has joined the Special Constabulary, Baker's changed his mobile number, Collins says he's got a girlfriend now, and Dawson has become a Jehovah's Witness. Evans is in jail, Flint and Gough went off to the RAuxAF, so I think they're starting their tour in June. Hollins was killed back in November with the First Battalion."
"Ah."
"Jones has got a job driving for Tesco's, so he can't do weekends. Kenyon's started to coach a kids' football team on Saturday mornings, so he's jacked too. Lamb handed his kit in last November. Murray's driving to London now, trying to get into the RMR. Norris says he's got a new boyfriend and can't be bothered with the TA any more, Osbourne's got a job in Liverpool and Parry's due out of Headley Court this week. He was Hollins' best mate, of course."
"Erm..."
"Quinn and Rogers got jobs with the New Post Office after the Christmas strike, so they're doing shifts. Smith said he might come in later in the summer, and Thompson says his girlfriend's pregnant so he's not doing any more tours. Umbugu got deported in January; apparently he wasn't from South Africa after all. Vernon sacked it back in October when they shut us down, and White's car's broken down. Xavier's started his college course, Young didn't answer and Zavros' parents have moved back to Greece, so he's gone with them. Do you want me to call 2 Pl Sir, or have you got the number?"
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RAuxAF Reg and FP Sqns have recruitment budget withdrawn a few weeks before TA suspend training. Coincidence or smart move by RAuxAF who knew they'd get an influx of enquiries from disgruntled STABs?!
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Reggie: Be careful, you mustn't confuse happy coincidence with planning....
Scorpion Driver: I don't doubt that Reservists can be cheaper for the reasons that you state - but with the caveat that Reservists are ONLY cheaper if they offer the required level of capability at the time that it is required. If they don't make the level of capability then they are a dangerous waste of time - the system is based on them being at a certain level of readiness and they need to be there.
This is a two way deal - the regular force has to decide what it wants the reserve force to do, and then it has to provide the training opportunity to do this to the regular standards, and to be honest with what the reservists are going to do for real. I know too many RAuxAF types who got sent off to TELIC and ended up doing ****ty menial jobs not because they were trained for it, but because they were reservists and they didn't get a vote.
The Reservists - and especially some of the reservist chain of command - needs to get real. The RAuxAF is not "Air Cadets for Adults" - it's there to support the regular front line and those actions that do not need to be justified: pratting about in the respective Messes at the weekend doesn't do anyone any good unless you're professionally good enough to hold the rank. Personally, I think that all the RAuxAF units should have either a regular OC and a reserve XO and regular adj / training officer or if you must, a reserve OC with the XO, adj and training officer from the regulars.
BLUF: Set the expectations, set the standards, provide the training, watch the enthusiasm and outside skills of your reservists make them hugely valuable. Or don't bother - if it's Air Cadets for Adults you want, go and jin the Air Cadets! (With apologies to the Spacies - without you, I'd never have joined).
Rant over!
S41
Scorpion Driver: I don't doubt that Reservists can be cheaper for the reasons that you state - but with the caveat that Reservists are ONLY cheaper if they offer the required level of capability at the time that it is required. If they don't make the level of capability then they are a dangerous waste of time - the system is based on them being at a certain level of readiness and they need to be there.
This is a two way deal - the regular force has to decide what it wants the reserve force to do, and then it has to provide the training opportunity to do this to the regular standards, and to be honest with what the reservists are going to do for real. I know too many RAuxAF types who got sent off to TELIC and ended up doing ****ty menial jobs not because they were trained for it, but because they were reservists and they didn't get a vote.
The Reservists - and especially some of the reservist chain of command - needs to get real. The RAuxAF is not "Air Cadets for Adults" - it's there to support the regular front line and those actions that do not need to be justified: pratting about in the respective Messes at the weekend doesn't do anyone any good unless you're professionally good enough to hold the rank. Personally, I think that all the RAuxAF units should have either a regular OC and a reserve XO and regular adj / training officer or if you must, a reserve OC with the XO, adj and training officer from the regulars.
BLUF: Set the expectations, set the standards, provide the training, watch the enthusiasm and outside skills of your reservists make them hugely valuable. Or don't bother - if it's Air Cadets for Adults you want, go and jin the Air Cadets! (With apologies to the Spacies - without you, I'd never have joined).
Rant over!
S41
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Great timing, too, as with less than six months to go to the end of the fiscal year, you'll pretty much guarantee that no-one will qualify for the training bounty - which is tax-free and worth up to £1,600 for those on the top level.
"One of the problems with the TA is when you look at their annual budget (£350-£400m 'ish) against the actual numbers who deploy each year (~2000) in support of ongoing operations it gives the impression of being a very expensive organisation (all things are relative I guess). "
Wrathmonk - I can't find a breakdown of the TA budget, but I'm sure a large proportion of it is to pay the salaries of the Regular staff and NRPS. The paragraph below is from an (unclassified) Army Briefing Note dated 13th October. Stopping all training not in support of operations saves £63-86m, depending on how you do the sum, but only a small proportion of the £400m 'ish quoted.
Great timing, too, as with less than six months to go to the end of the fiscal year, you'll pretty much guarantee that no-one will qualify for the training bounty - which is tax-free and worth up to £1,600 for those on the top level.
"Territorial Army (TA): In addition to the £23 million reduction previously made in the in-year budget for TA activity, savings of £20 million have been taken. As a result, activities not directly in support of operations will stop or be severely curtailed. This will mean that TA soldiers who have not been warned to go on operations will suspend all training until Apr 10. However, Phase 1 training will continue and those who have not already qualified for their Annual Bounty will have the opportunity to do so. "
Topgas
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Level 3 MATTS
For my last "unit", bounty meant:
- Range test
- CFT (25 km in the Brecons inc Bergen, gat, belt kit etc)
- Swimming test (40 lengths in overalls)
- an annual camp, or equivalent
- and some other bits and bobs that I've missed off that don't need beadwindowing here.
But I was in a special lot, and I don't mean special needs, either
Edit:
I gather that my old lot, and the Int Corps (AKA green slime) have been exempted the budget freeze. Which is great, but still a scr*wing for the TA paras, infanteers, gunners, signallers etc., all of whom earn much respect for giving up their 9-5 jobs and slotting in to a regular unit to go to the sandy/dusty/rocky places.