Chinook - Still Hitting Back 3 (Merged)
Avoid imitations
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Cazatou, yes my mistake. Obviously, I meant the Boscombe Down test pilots refused to fly it, so read "D Sqn" for Handling Sqn.
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SFFP
I agree that Rotary Wing Aircrew would know what was being referred to - as would anyone who had experience of A&AEE.
That would leave only approx 56 million UK Citizens (including a large percentage of UK Military Personnel) who have little or no knowledge of RAF Rotary Wing operations - plus, of course, those PPrune members from overseas who have not served in the UK Military.
I agree that Rotary Wing Aircrew would know what was being referred to - as would anyone who had experience of A&AEE.
That would leave only approx 56 million UK Citizens (including a large percentage of UK Military Personnel) who have little or no knowledge of RAF Rotary Wing operations - plus, of course, those PPrune members from overseas who have not served in the UK Military.
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Caz,
As I said anyone, be they Rotary, FJ, FW, Civilian et al who has read this thread will know EXACTLY who Shy was referring to
However on behalf of the 65 million other folk who may inadvertently stumble into this forum unannounced I would like to thank you for clearing up Shy's glaring error
As I said anyone, be they Rotary, FJ, FW, Civilian et al who has read this thread will know EXACTLY who Shy was referring to
However on behalf of the 65 million other folk who may inadvertently stumble into this forum unannounced I would like to thank you for clearing up Shy's glaring error
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It is all really quite simple isn't it.
The aircraft was not trusted by Boscombe Down. MoD expert witness Malcolm Perks, a principled hero in this tragedy if ever there was one, went public to tell all about the problems with the engine control system.
The shortcomings of the Mark II led to a shortage of operational Chinooks, leaving Jon and Rick at Aldergrove barely current.
ZD576 had had a serious of flight critical problems - and the paperwork to back the claims up - engines were robbed etc. There were the debonding incidents (and subsequent ad hoc wiggle-before-takeoff-SOP) that still make my hair stand on end.
The precautionary landing of ZD576 at Luton Airport a week before the tragedy. No fault found.
Last recorded conversation from Rick Cook minutes before takeoff when he spoke of his concerns with the engine control units.
The boys didn't make the rules but the rules were made for them, to protect them so that only in cases where there is no doubt may deceased aircrew be found negligent. Lady Thatcher, recently cited, voted against Wratten and Day's position in the Lords. She had grave misgivings. The Duke of York, himself of course a helicopter pilot, has also privately raised concerns.
The Ministry must reconsider the finding because the answers left wanting do nobody in the service justice. And as we head into Remembrance Day itself, it is that wider injustice that is poignant. Nimrod et al continue to be echoes of the 94 tragedy.
The aircraft was not trusted by Boscombe Down. MoD expert witness Malcolm Perks, a principled hero in this tragedy if ever there was one, went public to tell all about the problems with the engine control system.
The shortcomings of the Mark II led to a shortage of operational Chinooks, leaving Jon and Rick at Aldergrove barely current.
ZD576 had had a serious of flight critical problems - and the paperwork to back the claims up - engines were robbed etc. There were the debonding incidents (and subsequent ad hoc wiggle-before-takeoff-SOP) that still make my hair stand on end.
The precautionary landing of ZD576 at Luton Airport a week before the tragedy. No fault found.
Last recorded conversation from Rick Cook minutes before takeoff when he spoke of his concerns with the engine control units.
The boys didn't make the rules but the rules were made for them, to protect them so that only in cases where there is no doubt may deceased aircrew be found negligent. Lady Thatcher, recently cited, voted against Wratten and Day's position in the Lords. She had grave misgivings. The Duke of York, himself of course a helicopter pilot, has also privately raised concerns.
The Ministry must reconsider the finding because the answers left wanting do nobody in the service justice. And as we head into Remembrance Day itself, it is that wider injustice that is poignant. Nimrod et al continue to be echoes of the 94 tragedy.
Hamlet Act 3 Scene 2:
Not sure about the line though caz, so probably a different quote. Just seemed strangely appropriate if Polonius represented the MOD!
O! my offence is rank, it smells to heaven.
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Never seen such a quiet crewroom as the day Sqn Ldr Burke walked in and asked for a volunteer to recover the Boscobe cab to Odiham.
My understanding was that the aircraft was being recovered because Boscombe would not progress the trials any further (risk). I agreed to crew it back because.... no one else would...The CH47 mk2 fleet didnt fly that week...but it wasn't grounded!
My understanding was that the aircraft was being recovered because Boscombe would not progress the trials any further (risk). I agreed to crew it back because.... no one else would...The CH47 mk2 fleet didnt fly that week...but it wasn't grounded!
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Caz,
Have a read of the posts by antenna and winch control and if you still want to play your "clever dickey" games then crack on Sir
From my perspective those two posts pretty much sum things up and lets hope that real justice will shortly/eventually prevail.
Have a read of the posts by antenna and winch control and if you still want to play your "clever dickey" games then crack on Sir
From my perspective those two posts pretty much sum things up and lets hope that real justice will shortly/eventually prevail.
Just a numbered other
Whilst we are busy Caz-bashing:
May I assume that you, Sir include yourself! 
Hamlet
That would leave only approx 56 million UK Citizens (including a large percentage of UK Military Personnel) who have little or no knowledge of RAF Rotary Wing operations
The enginer hoist by his own petard
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Ark Royal
I have never pretended otherwise. The AOC 1 Gp at the time of the accident was, as I am sure you are aware, someone with a wealth of rotary experience garnered in his 30 + years of RAF Service. In addition there was a Gp Capt SH and his Staff.
I had no Harrier,Jaguar, Phantom or Tornado experience either - but there were suitably qualified persons in similar positions to those mentioned above whom I could consult as required.
CinC STC similarly had an Air Staff whom he could consult during his review of the BOI; as did CAS who also reviewed the BOI before it was published.
I have never pretended otherwise. The AOC 1 Gp at the time of the accident was, as I am sure you are aware, someone with a wealth of rotary experience garnered in his 30 + years of RAF Service. In addition there was a Gp Capt SH and his Staff.
I had no Harrier,Jaguar, Phantom or Tornado experience either - but there were suitably qualified persons in similar positions to those mentioned above whom I could consult as required.
CinC STC similarly had an Air Staff whom he could consult during his review of the BOI; as did CAS who also reviewed the BOI before it was published.
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Caz,
Priceless response, absolutely priceless
Now care to enlighten me on just what that Hamlet quote was.............was it along the lines of "He doth protest too much"......ring any bells at all.......
Priceless response, absolutely priceless
Now care to enlighten me on just what that Hamlet quote was.............was it along the lines of "He doth protest too much"......ring any bells at all.......
cazatou:
Is it another play, caz? A King and his son, The Prince, bring grief and sorrow to their land with an arbitrary and unjust edict. All their courtiers are implicated for they have given the advice on which the edict is based, save one who forbore to do so. Eventually both King and Prince are denounced along with their courtiers, with the exception of the one who did not offer encouragement in their unwise act. He was a wise and noble man who went on to become a Prince himself, one who was loved and looked up to by those who lived in his Commune. More Aesop than Shakespeare though, I would have thought. So would it be a Fairy Tale, or Tragedy, or both?
The AOC 1 Gp at the time of the accident was, as I am sure you are aware, someone with a wealth of rotary experience garnered in his 30 + years of RAF Service. In addition there was a Gp Capt SH and his Staff.
Avoid imitations
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I had no Harrier,Jaguar, Phantom or Tornado experience either - but there were suitably qualified persons in similar positions to those mentioned above whom I could consult as required.
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Cazatou
Was it normal for CAS to review the Board? I thought it was a job for AOC the Group concerned, plus CinC STC.
CinC STC similarly had an Air Staff whom he could consult during his review of the BOI; as did CAS who also reviewed the BOI before it was published.