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New Chief of Pointy Dangerous Things told to keep his nose out......

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New Chief of Pointy Dangerous Things told to keep his nose out......

Old 30th Aug 2009, 16:35
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New Chief of Pointy Dangerous Things told to keep his nose out......

....heard on the radio an interview with Rifkind that new CGS has been told to keep his nose out of politics/decision making as last incumberent had a tendency to speak up for the lads.
Rifkind stated that it would be a different matter if we were at war but at the present time should concentrate on running the Armed Forces..............well thank gooodness we're not at war!!!!!!!!!!

Last edited by EESDL; 3rd Sep 2009 at 14:11. Reason: wrong TLA
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 16:44
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well thank gooodness we're not at war
That's ok then, we can issue everyone with blanks.

British soldiers banned from using live bullets to save money - Times Online
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 17:06
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The cost of a single SA80 live round is approximately 30p, compared with 10p for a blank.
That sounds a wee bit expensive (by at least half).

Maybe they should fix their procurement rather than limit their training?
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 17:08
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I didn't think we had a new CDS. Sir Jock has been extended; CGS may be.

Edited to add:

FW, quite, got me confused until I realised he meant ground to ground bullets rather than air to ground. Mind you 30p a pop is bargain compared with £30 a pop for the Tiffy bullets.

Then when I read 'to speak up for the lads' I realised he wasn't talking about Torpy who obviously did all his politicing behinde closed doors.

Last edited by Pontius Navigator; 30th Aug 2009 at 19:20.
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 19:01
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Maybe since the originator used the title

New Chief of Pointy Dangerous Things told to keep his nose out......
he actually meant the new CAS rather than the new CGS or maybe he thinks that the new CGS is in charge of 'pointy dangerous things' (whatever they are)!

Foldie
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 19:22
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Originally Posted by EESDL View Post
Rifkind stated that it would be a different matter if we were at war but at the present time should concentrate on running the Armed Forces..............well thank gooodness we're not at war!!!!!!!!!!
Now there's an interesting concept. What is a war?

I was quite impressed with Malcom Rifkind and had a very nice email from him; obviously I was wrong
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 19:27
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heard on the radio an interview with Rifkind that new Chief of DS has been told to keep his nose out of politics/decision making as last incumberent had a tendency to speak up for the lads
Are we sure this is referring to old CAS (Torps)? I would have thought this sounds more like the old CGS - Richard Dannatt???
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 20:05
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B-word, quite:

A bit of confusion there by eesdl:

CDS=in charge of all pointy things big, small, fast, slow
CGS=in charge of very fast small pointy things
CAS=in charge of fairly fast pointy things
CNS=in charge of lots of admirals etc

CDS=not new
CGS=new replacing outspoken one
CAS=new replacing strong silent one
CNS=new replacing strong not so silent one

So the only one that is not new is CDS, so something is wrong

heard on the radio an interview with Rifkind that new Chief of DS has been told to keep his nose out of politics/decision making as last incumberent had a tendency to speak up for the lads.
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Old 30th Aug 2009, 23:38
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The interview is at time 2.41.23 (almost at end of the Today clip) at: BBC iPlayer - Today: 28/08/2009
Just to clear up a few points;
1. It was occasioned by the handover on 28.08.09 of Dannatt to Richards as CGS.
2. Rifkind was making the point that we are at war, and it was important in that case that Chiefs are seen to champion their subordinates.
3. The point was also made (by Maj Gen Cordingley?) that there is a funding crisis at the MOD which must be addressed.
4. Rifkind picked up on that by saying that a Government that sends its Armed Forces to war cannot carp at the cost of winning that war!
Perhaps he can go back on your Christmas Card list again Pontious? As to Dannatt, well done Sir! Would that the light blue had such leaders!
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Old 31st Aug 2009, 07:44
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Chug, thanks for that. Looks like EESDL was talking .........

I wrote to Rifkind when I was doing an university project and how I agreed with his views on the environment. I sent him a copy of the essay which he was kind enough to acknowledge.

This is in contrast to my own MP who did absolutely nothing regarding the Jubillee medal except passed on my letter to Loony. Then the next time his officer manager replied.
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Old 31st Aug 2009, 08:46
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Bandwagon????

From Wikipedia...

Rifkind was appointed Secretary of State for Defence after the 1992 General Election.Although he had no military background he was a firm believer in strong defence and armed forces with a global capability. One of his early decisions was to reverse the proposed disbandment of the Cheshire and Staffordshire Regiment and the Royal Scots. In 1994 he was faced with Treasury demands for major cuts in the Defence budget. In order to protect the fighting capability of the armed forces he negotiated a settlement with the Treasury whereby he would deliver savings greater than they were demanding but that he would be allowed to keep the additional savings and use them for the purchase of new military equipment for each of the three Services. He had already won the support of the Chiefs of Staff for this approach which provided an incentive for their cooperation in making the necessary economies.The outcome was the Front Line First Report which was well-received both in Parliament and in the Armed Forces. However, some of its proposals, particularly in regard to defence medical services were, in later years, subjected to heavy criticism. With some of the additional savings that had been found Rifkind was able to secure the agreement of the United States to British purchase of Cruise missiles. The United Kingdom was, at that time, the only country to which the Americans were willing to sell Cruise missiles. Rifkind also reformed the Reserve Forces and initiated the policy review which led to the TA and other Reservists being able to be used in operations abroad without the need for full mobilisation of the whole Territorial Army as had been needed in the past. One of the most difficult problems that Rifkind dealt with as Defence Secretary was British involvement in the Bosnian war in former Yugoslavia. Like John Major and the Foreign Secretary, Douglas Hurd, Rifkind was opposed to military intervention by Britain and the international community as combatants in that conflict. However, he supported the use of British troops and those from other countries to protect humanitarian food convoys that were protecting hundreds of thousands of civilians.Rifkind was a strong and vocal opponent of the American proposal for "lift and strike" which would have ended the UN Arms Embargo and subjected the Bosnian Serbs to Nato bombing from the air. Rifkind agreed with the UN and European view that such bombing would be incompatible with a UN mission on the ground and would necessitate the ending of that mission. Rifkind expressed these views publicly in Washington as well as in London. Although the United States was increasingly frustrated and concerned at this impasse it did not do lasting damage to US-British relations as evidenced by the American willingness to sell Cruise Missiles to the United Kingdom.
What we have seen is typical of the average PPRuNe user-bandwagon. People should be more inclined to look into the subject and make their own minds up, rather than just accept the point of view being put to them.

Sir Malcolm Rifkind is a supporter of the outgoing CGS but is uncomfortable with the idea of him adopting a political approach, using the media to make himself heard when the normally accepted channels were not getting his point across (because the penny-pinching government made his job impossible?).

Let's hope the new guard can make use of the good work done by the outgoing CGS. Loyalty is always a two-way street.
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Old 31st Aug 2009, 10:20
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Rifkind

He also has a nice self-deprecating sense of humour. I heard him on the radio explaining how it took him a long time to stop jumping into the back seat of a car and expecting it to be driven away, after he'd stopped being a cabinet minister.

The Ancient Mariner
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Old 31st Aug 2009, 10:48
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Or put it another way, there do seem to be some decent politicians.
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Old 3rd Sep 2009, 14:21
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Sorry about the appointment confusion everyone.
Now that we have confirmed who, what, where and why - my original point still stands.
Splurted coffee (hands-free) when heard interview on car radio - it was very much the public 'dressing down' of Dannatt getting involved with polictics - a "leave it to the Politicians" cry from Rifkind ......mmmmmmmm.......look where they've got us so far?

Perhaps his interview was edited but what I heard from Rifkind was laughable and smacked of:
"Yippee! a microphone!"

Have just listened to whole of interview on i-Player link kindly provided.
Now confused as that was not the interview I heard on 909!
i-Player interview quite straight-forward and different slant from Rifkind from interview I heard.
Thank goodness this is only a Rumour Network!



Rifkind to Tristar Trolley Dolley upon settling-down for Falklands flight:
"Great - what film is on the TV?"
"Nowt, Sir, you had TVs removed at extra expense prior to RAF delivery", says the Trolley Dolly - so goes the story

Last edited by EESDL; 3rd Sep 2009 at 14:37.
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Old 4th Sep 2009, 18:24
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I like the trolly dolly story! I was on the ops desk in the Victor det on Ascension in '82 when Rifkind visited and distinctly remember him asking how long had the Valiants been converted to tankers!
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Old 5th Sep 2009, 07:38
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Flew on 'TOM KINGS' tri-star to BATUS and it had films. The only one in the fleet at the time when everyone wasn't equal. All gone now and the same tri-star to STAN is very tired, possible why al the pollutions go via Dubai!!!!
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Old 18th Sep 2009, 16:02
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Will the Tories Axe the RAF?

Since this thread has turned into a bit of a discussion on former Conservative ministers' attitudes, I thought I'd highlight this http://tinyurl.com/qnnpsz just published.
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Old 18th Sep 2009, 16:45
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Rifkind

I'd agree that Rifkind wasn't bad as S of S but
  • he didn't support his own commanders on the ground in Bosnia who didn't want the arms embargo lifted but did want much force used to get the job done. It was only after heavy pressure from the Chiefs at the time that he relented and authorised a much more robust deployment
  • like must other Western defence ministers at the time he completely ignored the Rwandan genocide in 1994
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Old 18th Sep 2009, 17:46
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•like must other Western defence ministers at the time he completely ignored the Rwandan genocide in 1994
Not quite so. They, and he, did not ignore the issue; they chose, for one reason and another to do little about it.

And unlike many others on this forum, he was an eloquent proponent of this--


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Old 18th Sep 2009, 18:35
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Is that a Tiffy doing a simulated Jaguar take off profile? :P

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