Ainsworth says Afghanistan is "winnable"
Guest
Posts: n/a
Ainsworth says Afghanistan is "winnable"
Defence Secretary Bob Ainsworth says the conflict in Afghanistan is "winnable".
It seems that the majortity of the British public don't think so from most of the comments on the BBC have your say site and from what I hear discussed at the many military venues I vistit, most serving people think it is unwinable.......Discuss.
It seems that the majortity of the British public don't think so from most of the comments on the BBC have your say site and from what I hear discussed at the many military venues I vistit, most serving people think it is unwinable.......Discuss.
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Midlandshire
Posts: 37
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I watched him being interviewd by Huw Edwards yesterday morning. My immediate impression was of a man who seems totally uncommitted, to the point of actually lacking an appreciation of the significance and enormity of the post he fills.
So he also feels the campaign is 'winnable', well he responded to Gen Sir David Richards statement that we are in for a long haul with; Quote "Look, the notion that we are going to be in Afghanistan for 30 to 40 years in anything like the form that we are now is ludicrous" Unquote. In fact Gen Richards said the "nation-building" could take 40 years, at no point did he say 30 or 40 years warfighting.
No wonder that this weasel has so little support.
So he also feels the campaign is 'winnable', well he responded to Gen Sir David Richards statement that we are in for a long haul with; Quote "Look, the notion that we are going to be in Afghanistan for 30 to 40 years in anything like the form that we are now is ludicrous" Unquote. In fact Gen Richards said the "nation-building" could take 40 years, at no point did he say 30 or 40 years warfighting.
No wonder that this weasel has so little support.
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
In my opinion it seems the only information we get through news agencies from Afghanistan is the news of repatriating soldiers, and I would be surprised if this didn't give the general public a one-sided view about this conflict. Obviously if the news doesn't report any progress of any kind.
What annoys me is the media (I'm not sure if it's intentional) ignoring projects being undertaken in Afghanistan in order to improve conditions, building schools etc.
The quote below is from the Arbroath Herald: MARINES' PART IN AFGHANISTAN'S REGENERATION - Arbroath Today
I personally believe that if you keep up this kind of effort then this conflict is definitely winnable. Balancing the Hearts and Minds aspect with the need to actually combat the Taleban.
This sounds like it could be very similar to the UNMIK (UN Mission in Kosovo), not keeping a military presence as such but more of an oversight for elections and development. In which case it certainly seems likely. (I do know the comparison of Kosovo and Afghanistan isn't the best )
What annoys me is the media (I'm not sure if it's intentional) ignoring projects being undertaken in Afghanistan in order to improve conditions, building schools etc.
The quote below is from the Arbroath Herald: MARINES' PART IN AFGHANISTAN'S REGENERATION - Arbroath Today
Much of the practical day-to-day activity for the elements of 45 Commando based in Sangin is to patrol daily into the town, which is now a thriving hub of activity and commerce in comparison to how it was only 18 months ago.
Evidence of the continued economic growth and stability can be seen from the current projects such as the refurbishment of the primary school and the building of a new secondary school
In fact Gen Richards said the "nation-building" could take 40 years, at no point did he say 30 or 40 years warfighting.
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Erehwon
Posts: 1,146
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just like Northern Ireland secretary, I think Defence Minister is a bit of a poison chalice.
Afghanistan winnable? - Study your history my friend, and count the victors of the past (you won't need too many fingers).
Afghanistan winnable? - Study your history my friend, and count the victors of the past (you won't need too many fingers).
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Our military have good reason to be there, they have been ordered so.
Our politicians have no good reason to subject our military to the hopeless task they have been given.
Get them out, forthwith.
Our politicians have no good reason to subject our military to the hopeless task they have been given.
Get them out, forthwith.
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lowlevel UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What is a Trumpeters Job?
Paul Flynn MP (Lab) has just been on BBC News. In his blog, he wrote:
So how does "the majority of the British public" gather its viewpoint? I'd find 'Truth' and the 'Sun' difficult but there can be relatively straight reporting, such as the Press Association: 204 UK troops killed in Afghan war. The Telegraph swings between reporting the Andrew Marr interview and a stinging extract from an Army magazine.
Does the Mirror's Paul Routledge offer any insight?
OK, perhaps not so try Jason Beattie.
For me, any UK exit strategy must be grounded in an Afghan state that is trusted by its people to provide economic and physical security. Afghan elections start the 1st round on 20 Aug 09. These elections have to be credible, supported and must not be disrupted by Taleban violence. Signs aren't great but the coalition has to prevail, noting that the process could follow-on into late September with the attendant dangers to civil and military alike.
The MP for Newport West might match Karzai with the Afghan proverb "It’s the same donkey, but with a new saddle." I'd leave the choice to the Afghans and another proverb: "There is a path to the top of even the highest mountain."
Politicians are in denial and refuse to confront the deep futility of the war in Afghanistan. It's more comfortable to tilt at the windmills of peripheral issues. Last year fellow European countries were howled at for dodging their share of the burden. Now, it's the myth that more troops and helicopters are solutions.
The media serve up delusional pap from embedded journalists. The key issues are ugly truths on Karzai's corruption, evil human rights record and the atrocities of his police and army. Politicians blaming foreigners or each other are on comfortable ground. It’s easier than thinking.
Clinging to myths is a deadly distraction. Afghans say that 'Truth is like the sun. When it rises it is impossible to hide it'. It will be some time before truth dawns in our Parliament.
The media serve up delusional pap from embedded journalists. The key issues are ugly truths on Karzai's corruption, evil human rights record and the atrocities of his police and army. Politicians blaming foreigners or each other are on comfortable ground. It’s easier than thinking.
Clinging to myths is a deadly distraction. Afghans say that 'Truth is like the sun. When it rises it is impossible to hide it'. It will be some time before truth dawns in our Parliament.
Does the Mirror's Paul Routledge offer any insight?
The Tories gulped when the Army's new chief promised four more decades of campaigning in Afghanistan, saying it is "unaffordable" and "a non-runner". But even they hadn't the gumption to tell the gung-ho general what he should hear.
I have. Shut up, keep your military advice to the proper channels and do as you're told by the people we elect to run the country.
I have. Shut up, keep your military advice to the proper channels and do as you're told by the people we elect to run the country.
For me, any UK exit strategy must be grounded in an Afghan state that is trusted by its people to provide economic and physical security. Afghan elections start the 1st round on 20 Aug 09. These elections have to be credible, supported and must not be disrupted by Taleban violence. Signs aren't great but the coalition has to prevail, noting that the process could follow-on into late September with the attendant dangers to civil and military alike.
The MP for Newport West might match Karzai with the Afghan proverb "It’s the same donkey, but with a new saddle." I'd leave the choice to the Afghans and another proverb: "There is a path to the top of even the highest mountain."
I am always a bit surprised that no mention is ever made of enemy dead. Is this political correctness or what? It wouldn't be giving away too much if the Army would give out statements simply saying that over the past week, in the operational area, XX Taliban were killed.
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: firmly on dry land
Age: 80
Posts: 1,541
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Or, as Ed Macy said in Apache, we are not in to 'Kill TV'.
As for balanced reportage, we get news from our press releases and embeds, we get precious little news of the other nations except where it serves a propaganda purpose - "Soldiers of Country X don't fight and get 2 cans of beer per day whereas our gallant lads . . . "
I read an English language newspaper in Copenhagen a little while back, quite illuminating. While they pulled out of active operations they still left a significant number of troops in harms way in a support role.
Join Date: Jul 2002
Location: East Midlands
Age: 84
Posts: 1,511
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
New Afghan Law
It is widely reported today that the Afghan Government have passed a law making it legal for a man to starve his wife if she refuses to have s*x with him. Is this any governement that we should be expending British lives and money to "Support"? I think not!
Join Date: May 2004
Location: England
Posts: 473
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here's the bbc link : BBC NEWS | South Asia | Row over Afghan wife-starving law
Join Date: Jun 2009
Location: UK
Posts: 26
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
It is widely reported today that the Afghan Government have passed a law making it legal for a man to starve his wife if she refuses to have s*x with him. Is this any governement that we should be expending British lives and money to "Support"? I think not!
The americans have appeared to kept pretty quiet about this, possibly because they support the leadership of Karzai and would give him a concession to ensure he stays in power. Got to love american foreign policy!!!
Join Date: Aug 2007
Location: East Anglia.
Posts: 416
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: Lowlevel UK
Posts: 316
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
17 August 2009 - Sangin
A viewpoint from Michael Yon
For Political Outer Offices who apparently search PPRuNe for their bosses:
Thanks ORAC
For Political Outer Offices who apparently search PPRuNe for their bosses:
The roads are so littered with enemy bombs that nearly all transport and resupply to this base occurs by helicopter. The pilots roar through the darkness, swoop into small bases nestled in the saddle of enemy territory, and quickly rumble off into the night.
A witness must spend only a short time in the darkness to know we are at war. Flares arc into the night, or mortar illumination rounds drift and swing under parachutes, orange and eerily in the distance, casting long, flickering but sharply defined shadows. The worst that can happen is that you will be caught in an open field, covered by nothing and concealed only by darkness, when the illumination suddenly bathes you in light. Best is to stay low and freeze and prepare to fire, or in the case of a writer, to stay low and freeze and prepare to watch the firing.
A witness must spend only a short time in the darkness to know we are at war. Flares arc into the night, or mortar illumination rounds drift and swing under parachutes, orange and eerily in the distance, casting long, flickering but sharply defined shadows. The worst that can happen is that you will be caught in an open field, covered by nothing and concealed only by darkness, when the illumination suddenly bathes you in light. Best is to stay low and freeze and prepare to fire, or in the case of a writer, to stay low and freeze and prepare to watch the firing.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Hanging off the end of a thread
Posts: 32,470
Received 2,594 Likes
on
1,098 Posts
MackayIn my opinion it seems the only information we get through news agencies from Afghanistan is the news of repatriating soldiers, and I would be surprised if this didn't give the general public a one-sided view about this conflict. Obviously if the news doesn't report any progress of any kind.
What annoys me is the media (I'm not sure if it's intentional) ignoring projects being undertaken in Afghanistan in order to improve conditions, building schools etc.
The quote below is from the Arbroath Herald: MARINES' PART IN AFGHANISTAN'S REGENERATION - Arbroath Today
Quote:
Much of the practical day-to-day activity for the elements of 45 Commando based in Sangin is to patrol daily into the town, which is now a thriving hub of activity and commerce in comparison to how it was only 18 months ago.
Quote:
Evidence of the continued economic growth and stability can be seen from the current projects such as the refurbishment of the primary school and the building of a new secondary school
I personally believe that if you keep up this kind of effort then this conflict is definitely winnable. Balancing the Hearts and Minds aspect with the need to actually combat the Taleban.
Quote:
In fact Gen Richards said the "nation-building" could take 40 years, at no point did he say 30 or 40 years warfighting.
This sounds like it could be very similar to the UNMIK (UN Mission in Kosovo), not keeping a military presence as such but more of an oversight for elections and development. In which case it certainly seems likely. (I do know the comparison of Kosovo and Afghanistan isn't the best )
What annoys me is the media (I'm not sure if it's intentional) ignoring projects being undertaken in Afghanistan in order to improve conditions, building schools etc.
The quote below is from the Arbroath Herald: MARINES' PART IN AFGHANISTAN'S REGENERATION - Arbroath Today
Quote:
Much of the practical day-to-day activity for the elements of 45 Commando based in Sangin is to patrol daily into the town, which is now a thriving hub of activity and commerce in comparison to how it was only 18 months ago.
Quote:
Evidence of the continued economic growth and stability can be seen from the current projects such as the refurbishment of the primary school and the building of a new secondary school
I personally believe that if you keep up this kind of effort then this conflict is definitely winnable. Balancing the Hearts and Minds aspect with the need to actually combat the Taleban.
Quote:
In fact Gen Richards said the "nation-building" could take 40 years, at no point did he say 30 or 40 years warfighting.
This sounds like it could be very similar to the UNMIK (UN Mission in Kosovo), not keeping a military presence as such but more of an oversight for elections and development. In which case it certainly seems likely. (I do know the comparison of Kosovo and Afghanistan isn't the best )
No one wins in Afghanistan, ask the Russians......
Similar to the other idea I read as to why do we not buy simply buy the opium for the medical trade from the farmers and starve the Taliban of it's funding...... Simple, shortage on the street creates price hikes, more cash means you pay more for the stuff from the farmers than UK PLC which then means UK PLC would have to stump up more money and market forces and up we go in an ever increasing spiral.
Join Date: Jan 2008
Location: UK
Posts: 1,515
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Just few weeks ago a Middle Eastern gentleman, well-versed in International Relations, said to me over a coffee...
"These people live to fight. While you are there they will fight you. When you go home they will fight each other."
Mans got a point.
"These people live to fight. While you are there they will fight you. When you go home they will fight each other."
Mans got a point.