Thank you families!!! No thanks NOTW!!!
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Odiham
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Thank you families!!! No thanks NOTW!!!
Check this load of:
Fury as kids go on Chinook fun flights | News | News Of The World
So here we are having a families' day, thanking our other halves, sons,daughters for their continuouns support over the last 4/5 years in the most dangerous ops the Chinook has probably ever seen and this is what we get? Some half-*rsed journo who can't do his homework.
He left it to the very end to mention that it was only the immediate family of RAF serving personnel that were being take on a short flight on the aircraft. I am sure he did not mention this to the people he interviewed for their reaction.
It leaves such a bad taste in my mouth for us to be seen by the families of the fallen, after they have been given the impression by this journo, that we could use these aircraft and stop their sons/daughter getting blown up. He does not realise that Odiham is one of these units where 20%+ have been constantly deployed throughout the year for the last 4/5 years.
We are not like some units who do 6 months and then rest for 2 years (and trust me I am not taking anything away from the most courageous acts this country has seen for a few decades done by the members of said units), each flight deploys twice in 12 months. It is a lot of strain put on our loved ones. So what a better way to say thank you to them. He and others should remember that if this support did not exist, our support to the ground troops would probably not be as good and exemplary as it currently is.
I am now in the process of writing a snotogram to this waste of space and I encourage anyone else who feels this way inclined to do the same.
Woka woka.
Edited:
Fury as kids go on Chinook fun flights | News | News Of The World
So here we are having a families' day, thanking our other halves, sons,daughters for their continuouns support over the last 4/5 years in the most dangerous ops the Chinook has probably ever seen and this is what we get? Some half-*rsed journo who can't do his homework.
He left it to the very end to mention that it was only the immediate family of RAF serving personnel that were being take on a short flight on the aircraft. I am sure he did not mention this to the people he interviewed for their reaction.
It leaves such a bad taste in my mouth for us to be seen by the families of the fallen, after they have been given the impression by this journo, that we could use these aircraft and stop their sons/daughter getting blown up. He does not realise that Odiham is one of these units where 20%+ have been constantly deployed throughout the year for the last 4/5 years.
We are not like some units who do 6 months and then rest for 2 years (and trust me I am not taking anything away from the most courageous acts this country has seen for a few decades done by the members of said units), each flight deploys twice in 12 months. It is a lot of strain put on our loved ones. So what a better way to say thank you to them. He and others should remember that if this support did not exist, our support to the ground troops would probably not be as good and exemplary as it currently is.
I am now in the process of writing a snotogram to this waste of space and I encourage anyone else who feels this way inclined to do the same.
Woka woka.
Edited:
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: In a shed
Posts: 70
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Interesting and gratifying to note that the overwhelming majority of comment on the website agrees with your position wokawoka (as I do!).
A really weak story which will only stir up the uniformed about wasting scarce resources etc etc.
A really weak story which will only stir up the uniformed about wasting scarce resources etc etc.
Join Date: Jul 2006
Location: bristol
Age: 56
Posts: 1,051
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
My blood boiled when I read this. Not only are the passengers origins hardly mentioned, but it skims over the fact that aircraft are needed in the UK for training!
I have no idea (being honest) if this aircraft (in the pic) is also fully equipped for hot and sandy operations (with DAS in mind), and don't know as I don't need to know, but note that the article seemed IMHO to suggest that we could could just send all RAF Chinooks if we chose to
I noted it made no mention as to whether we have enough trained (or rested) pilots for an increase, or whether we have enough spares or support staff either.
Just rubbish from start to finish. I would like to hear what fellow ppruners would have preferred the head line to be for that pic?
I'll start with: Heroes families given well deserved treat
I have no idea (being honest) if this aircraft (in the pic) is also fully equipped for hot and sandy operations (with DAS in mind), and don't know as I don't need to know, but note that the article seemed IMHO to suggest that we could could just send all RAF Chinooks if we chose to
I noted it made no mention as to whether we have enough trained (or rested) pilots for an increase, or whether we have enough spares or support staff either.
Just rubbish from start to finish. I would like to hear what fellow ppruners would have preferred the head line to be for that pic?
I'll start with: Heroes families given well deserved treat
Having attended the same families' day and commenting to Mrs Grimweasel that said flights could cause some angst if the press got hold of this I'm sorry to say that I'm not surprised??
In the current climate I'm surprised that we went ahead with this regardless of the moral, families component. RAF scores another home goal I'm afraid.
In the current climate I'm surprised that we went ahead with this regardless of the moral, families component. RAF scores another home goal I'm afraid.
Join Date: Feb 2004
Location: Farnham, Surrey
Posts: 326
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Ditto! Mentioned non-factual comments, headline-grabbing sub-editors and ended with "Shame on you, News of the World".
Muppets
PS, I live on the flight path to Odious, am happy to see them any time of the day or night. It's called training, innit?
Muppets
PS, I live on the flight path to Odious, am happy to see them any time of the day or night. It's called training, innit?
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
Age: 66
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Why does no-one see this as a positive?
Politically, this clearly demonstrates the failure of the current government. This story would not have been written were it not for the utter failure of the government to provide those they send into harms way with sufficient, adequate equipment. The author would have nothing to write about if it wasn't the case.
Regardless of the author's political bent, (and he might be scoring an own goal as the left wingers are wont to do with their lack of intellect), he's actually putting pressure on the government to accept that the lack of helicopters in sandy places is so woeful that even the most beneficial use of a single aircraft in the UK is unacceptable.
So, if you'd like to help the situation and therefore the men and women on the ground, don't complain about the author. Complain to the author that he isn't doing enough to take the government to task. You want more stories like this. You want them embarrassed into action. You want, as you are sure he does, the government to properly fund, support and protect the men and women they send into harms way and if they are ideologically opposed to that then they should step down.
Outrage is wasted energy. Manipulation on the other hand....
Politically, this clearly demonstrates the failure of the current government. This story would not have been written were it not for the utter failure of the government to provide those they send into harms way with sufficient, adequate equipment. The author would have nothing to write about if it wasn't the case.
Regardless of the author's political bent, (and he might be scoring an own goal as the left wingers are wont to do with their lack of intellect), he's actually putting pressure on the government to accept that the lack of helicopters in sandy places is so woeful that even the most beneficial use of a single aircraft in the UK is unacceptable.
So, if you'd like to help the situation and therefore the men and women on the ground, don't complain about the author. Complain to the author that he isn't doing enough to take the government to task. You want more stories like this. You want them embarrassed into action. You want, as you are sure he does, the government to properly fund, support and protect the men and women they send into harms way and if they are ideologically opposed to that then they should step down.
Outrage is wasted energy. Manipulation on the other hand....
Airborne,
realistically, this is more likely to result in a knee jerk reaction, with surged aircraft and crews. This will no doubt result in smashed harmony figures, more injured crews, PVR's and early terminations, and not to forget crushed morale.
Apart from that, it's a good thing.
realistically, this is more likely to result in a knee jerk reaction, with surged aircraft and crews. This will no doubt result in smashed harmony figures, more injured crews, PVR's and early terminations, and not to forget crushed morale.
Apart from that, it's a good thing.
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Detroit MI
Age: 66
Posts: 1,460
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
MGD:
Well, yes... If people let it be so... There's power in the Meeja, if you manipulate those who are it. Most have ego's bigger than a pointy jet pilot and are stroked more easily. Let them know how close they are to the Pulitzer with their reporting and they'll see the ££££
OK, maybe a slight exaggeration, but the principle is sound - find the money grubbing little blah blah and you're in.
Hope the "blah blah" didn't offend the wife that is disgusted by cleverly disguised foul language.
Well, yes... If people let it be so... There's power in the Meeja, if you manipulate those who are it. Most have ego's bigger than a pointy jet pilot and are stroked more easily. Let them know how close they are to the Pulitzer with their reporting and they'll see the ££££
OK, maybe a slight exaggeration, but the principle is sound - find the money grubbing little blah blah and you're in.
Hope the "blah blah" didn't offend the wife that is disgusted by cleverly disguised foul language.
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Not of this world
Posts: 46
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
I don’t post very often but after reading this thread and the article it demonstrates again that despite the constant failings of the government, not just the current bunch of spineless tools but also the previous idiots that occupied number 10 and the continuous embarrassing stories, which highlight time and again that, the Forces are beyond stretched.
During my time in the RAF I served as both an Airman and Officer with tours from 1st to 4th line to DLO and EngO posts and participated in numerous families days througout. These were held to provide the families of those serving the opportunity to experience a glimpse of what daily life in the RAF is about, on Squadrons that often includes a short jolly where possible. The look of joy on the faces of the kids, mine included, especially when have just had a flight in or look round a Heli or FW ac that ‘daddy’ works on or even flies is unforgettable and as several have pointed out in the articles comment section is a way to generate interest for those who may consider joining.
The Forces are unique in that they do not have an end product as such, no matter how much is invested the only thing you will ever get out is a better ability/capability, but not some widget that can be sold for a profit to offset the investment required. I think that the issue here is not that ac hours are being wasted on jollies as this has always gone on and something that I fully support, but more that the cut backs from the last years (go back as far as you like) have reduced the Forces to the point where there have been so many ‘exclusive’ reports which embarrassingly show the government has done nothing to support them. Further, when a new problem arises they make a who lot of noise, often only after huge public pressure (Herc, and Nimrod for a start) about correcting the problem, but then fail to make good on their promise. How many lives have been lost due to a lack of resource be it financial or other, losses that change families for ever. How many aircraft have been lost because a decision was made where cost outweighed risk. I certainly remember good old Tony making a pledge to give the Forces whatever they wanted regardless of the cost a few years back after the lack of body armor was brought to the public domain.
The ‘can do’ attitude of those serving is something that makes you proud to have served, yet continues to provide ammunition for the government to exploit. While the top brass have made some headway to standing up for their troops recently they need to do more, Yes they are answerable to the Government and have to chose their battles wisely, but they are also responsible for the duty of care of those serving under them.
This journo, while a complete plebe has only shown again that the Forces are working beyond capacity, a situation which will only continue deteriorate as nothing is being done to address the real problems of obsolescence and shortage, especially when you consider that despite a small increase in the defence budget, year on year the real value of this has been reducing. We can all name a handful of projects that have overrun on budget and slipped so far beyond their original in service date its laughable and I’m no just talking about ac like MRA4 or Typhoon (god when was that first started), what about JPA, Bowman and the countless millions of pounds that have been wasted on other projects that eventually end up going nowhere. How much does the MOD spend each day on contractors filling posts formally occupied by Service personnel, £500+ a day each sound too high! Then, when we do finally get something new its so often dogged with problems that you get the feeling it was brought in just to stop the questions.
Personally I think both the Senior Leaders and MOD need to grow some bolts and actually say what needs to be said - We cant cope with the current commitments, our personnel are tired and fed up with being away so much, the equipment is over used and the budgets are too small and keep getting smaller – expectation of the government has exceeded capacity. That is why this minor story has had such a huge response.
End of long rant, back in my box and waiting for incoming.
During my time in the RAF I served as both an Airman and Officer with tours from 1st to 4th line to DLO and EngO posts and participated in numerous families days througout. These were held to provide the families of those serving the opportunity to experience a glimpse of what daily life in the RAF is about, on Squadrons that often includes a short jolly where possible. The look of joy on the faces of the kids, mine included, especially when have just had a flight in or look round a Heli or FW ac that ‘daddy’ works on or even flies is unforgettable and as several have pointed out in the articles comment section is a way to generate interest for those who may consider joining.
The Forces are unique in that they do not have an end product as such, no matter how much is invested the only thing you will ever get out is a better ability/capability, but not some widget that can be sold for a profit to offset the investment required. I think that the issue here is not that ac hours are being wasted on jollies as this has always gone on and something that I fully support, but more that the cut backs from the last years (go back as far as you like) have reduced the Forces to the point where there have been so many ‘exclusive’ reports which embarrassingly show the government has done nothing to support them. Further, when a new problem arises they make a who lot of noise, often only after huge public pressure (Herc, and Nimrod for a start) about correcting the problem, but then fail to make good on their promise. How many lives have been lost due to a lack of resource be it financial or other, losses that change families for ever. How many aircraft have been lost because a decision was made where cost outweighed risk. I certainly remember good old Tony making a pledge to give the Forces whatever they wanted regardless of the cost a few years back after the lack of body armor was brought to the public domain.
The ‘can do’ attitude of those serving is something that makes you proud to have served, yet continues to provide ammunition for the government to exploit. While the top brass have made some headway to standing up for their troops recently they need to do more, Yes they are answerable to the Government and have to chose their battles wisely, but they are also responsible for the duty of care of those serving under them.
This journo, while a complete plebe has only shown again that the Forces are working beyond capacity, a situation which will only continue deteriorate as nothing is being done to address the real problems of obsolescence and shortage, especially when you consider that despite a small increase in the defence budget, year on year the real value of this has been reducing. We can all name a handful of projects that have overrun on budget and slipped so far beyond their original in service date its laughable and I’m no just talking about ac like MRA4 or Typhoon (god when was that first started), what about JPA, Bowman and the countless millions of pounds that have been wasted on other projects that eventually end up going nowhere. How much does the MOD spend each day on contractors filling posts formally occupied by Service personnel, £500+ a day each sound too high! Then, when we do finally get something new its so often dogged with problems that you get the feeling it was brought in just to stop the questions.
Personally I think both the Senior Leaders and MOD need to grow some bolts and actually say what needs to be said - We cant cope with the current commitments, our personnel are tired and fed up with being away so much, the equipment is over used and the budgets are too small and keep getting smaller – expectation of the government has exceeded capacity. That is why this minor story has had such a huge response.
End of long rant, back in my box and waiting for incoming.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: Cambs
Posts: 110
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
What a shame to see a story like this.. why? Because I bet nobody has the balls to do it again next year. (I hope that the senior bods prove me wrong here.)
I was based at Odiham 8 years ago and my family loved their ride in a Chinook and still talk about it today. We all know that out of a fleet of 40, constantly flying the t*ts off of 10 in theatre is not easily maintained when you take out those in deep maintenance, intermediate maintenance, modification programmes, used for training crews in UK, UK standby commitments etc etc..
Keep up the excellent work Wokka fleet and treat garbage like this article with the contempt it deserves.
I was based at Odiham 8 years ago and my family loved their ride in a Chinook and still talk about it today. We all know that out of a fleet of 40, constantly flying the t*ts off of 10 in theatre is not easily maintained when you take out those in deep maintenance, intermediate maintenance, modification programmes, used for training crews in UK, UK standby commitments etc etc..
Keep up the excellent work Wokka fleet and treat garbage like this article with the contempt it deserves.
Join Date: Jan 2001
Location: The Burrow, N53:48:02 W1:48:57, The Tin Tent - EGBS, EGBO
Posts: 2,297
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
From a mere civilian's point of view:
WELL DONE RAF! I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment but when I get a chance will post a suitable comment elsewhere. in the meantime a short tale. My dad learned to fly in Tiger Moths with the RAF, going on to fly other aircraft including Yorks. Sitting at Jandakot one day with mum, looking out at the aircraft, she saw their Tiger Moth. Mum: "Do you think that belongs to the RAF?" Me: "No, not now but maybe originally" Mum: "You know your dad never took me flying, you would have thought he might have done." Me: "Well it was different then, they were not allowed to." Dad was in the RAF during and just after WW2. As you can see mum would haved loved to have been flown by him and would agree wholeheartedly that the children should have had their flight. It's good to see the RAF doing this. PLEASE keep it up.
WELL DONE RAF! I'm in a bit of a hurry at the moment but when I get a chance will post a suitable comment elsewhere. in the meantime a short tale. My dad learned to fly in Tiger Moths with the RAF, going on to fly other aircraft including Yorks. Sitting at Jandakot one day with mum, looking out at the aircraft, she saw their Tiger Moth. Mum: "Do you think that belongs to the RAF?" Me: "No, not now but maybe originally" Mum: "You know your dad never took me flying, you would have thought he might have done." Me: "Well it was different then, they were not allowed to." Dad was in the RAF during and just after WW2. As you can see mum would haved loved to have been flown by him and would agree wholeheartedly that the children should have had their flight. It's good to see the RAF doing this. PLEASE keep it up.
Join Date: Feb 2006
Location: N East Scotland
Posts: 43
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Well - I tried to add comment on the NoW site last night but no sign so far.
gist was
"most irresponsible, ill-informed piece of journalism I'd had the misfortune to read " - usual points re training , families, support etc.
ending "Shame on the News of the World"
Wonder why it hasnt made it on screen
?
gist was
"most irresponsible, ill-informed piece of journalism I'd had the misfortune to read " - usual points re training , families, support etc.
ending "Shame on the News of the World"
Wonder why it hasnt made it on screen
?
Thread Starter
Join Date: Mar 2004
Location: Odiham
Posts: 101
Likes: 0
Received 0 Likes
on
0 Posts
Here is what my friend wrote
Hello guys, glad to see I was not the only one enraged by this piece of journalism. It seems a lot of people in civvy street are as outraged by this as we are.
Here is what one of my colleagues' wife wrote to Mr Drake. Bet it does not get published.
Mr Drake, please can you explain to me how a newspaper whose jingoist strategy to the military has been exploited to increase circulation, profit and to engender support from it's readership can draft such a short-sighted, ill informed and irresponsible article. The NOTW court the public with their alleged support for the troops and soldiers that are fighting overseas to make Canary Wharf a safer place for their journalists to work in and for you write a an article stabbing the guys and their families in the back. Yet at the same time marketing your newspaper's support for them to gain more readers and make more profit. Please tell me why?
Then one day you'll go into theatre in Afghanistan, hunting for your gong, reporting from the frontline, shedding your armour so that you can gain promotion and show yourself to your colleagues that you are exposed to danger and those guys that you have misunderstood and lampooned will have to protect you as you jeopardise their mission for your own self promotion. And when you are wanting a scoop and want them to share some nugget with you that displays you in that coveted blaze of glory for your revered editor you'll wonder why they look at you as if they want to kill you and turn their back on you. They will never trust you now.
I ask you this Mr Drake, what sacrifice have you made for your country? What altruistic act have you done for your colleagues? What altruistic act have you ever done in your life? Are you married? Do you have children? Does your wife raise them alone while you fight to keep the country a safer place for them to grow up in? If you go to Afghanistan to report on the story and are injured should we send a Chinook out to pick you up?
Is that a good use of a valuable resource in such short supply? Would you ask them to not to because there are troops much worthier than a journalist who has forgotten his professional responsibility to:
to serve the public with news and information as free of bias and distortion as is within his skill to do so.
to bring balance, depth and perspective to the work he offers, so it may enlighten and inform.
to times remain mindful of the distinction between opinion and journalism and make it clear in which voice he is speaking.
To honour the public trust, by refusing to use his influence as a journalist to advance the propaganda of governments, organizations or advertisers.
To protect the secrecy of my confidential sources to ensure the public’s right to know is not thwarted by conspiracies of silence.
Not to libel another person’s character, reputation or legacy.
To show commitment to this noble public trust in concord with all journalists of goodwill and integrity, for the betterment of the communities that you serve.
Or have you sold your soul Mr Drake?
I think that you can do better than this Mr Drake - don't you. Shame on you.
Yours with fury,
XXXX XXXXXXXX (Name hidden by me for obvious reasons)
Please pass this on!
Here is what one of my colleagues' wife wrote to Mr Drake. Bet it does not get published.
Mr Drake, please can you explain to me how a newspaper whose jingoist strategy to the military has been exploited to increase circulation, profit and to engender support from it's readership can draft such a short-sighted, ill informed and irresponsible article. The NOTW court the public with their alleged support for the troops and soldiers that are fighting overseas to make Canary Wharf a safer place for their journalists to work in and for you write a an article stabbing the guys and their families in the back. Yet at the same time marketing your newspaper's support for them to gain more readers and make more profit. Please tell me why?
Then one day you'll go into theatre in Afghanistan, hunting for your gong, reporting from the frontline, shedding your armour so that you can gain promotion and show yourself to your colleagues that you are exposed to danger and those guys that you have misunderstood and lampooned will have to protect you as you jeopardise their mission for your own self promotion. And when you are wanting a scoop and want them to share some nugget with you that displays you in that coveted blaze of glory for your revered editor you'll wonder why they look at you as if they want to kill you and turn their back on you. They will never trust you now.
I ask you this Mr Drake, what sacrifice have you made for your country? What altruistic act have you done for your colleagues? What altruistic act have you ever done in your life? Are you married? Do you have children? Does your wife raise them alone while you fight to keep the country a safer place for them to grow up in? If you go to Afghanistan to report on the story and are injured should we send a Chinook out to pick you up?
Is that a good use of a valuable resource in such short supply? Would you ask them to not to because there are troops much worthier than a journalist who has forgotten his professional responsibility to:
to serve the public with news and information as free of bias and distortion as is within his skill to do so.
to bring balance, depth and perspective to the work he offers, so it may enlighten and inform.
to times remain mindful of the distinction between opinion and journalism and make it clear in which voice he is speaking.
To honour the public trust, by refusing to use his influence as a journalist to advance the propaganda of governments, organizations or advertisers.
To protect the secrecy of my confidential sources to ensure the public’s right to know is not thwarted by conspiracies of silence.
Not to libel another person’s character, reputation or legacy.
To show commitment to this noble public trust in concord with all journalists of goodwill and integrity, for the betterment of the communities that you serve.
Or have you sold your soul Mr Drake?
I think that you can do better than this Mr Drake - don't you. Shame on you.
Yours with fury,
XXXX XXXXXXXX (Name hidden by me for obvious reasons)
Please pass this on!